Welcome to Club SAITO !
My Feedback: (1)
I used VP 10% Air for a few years until my club stopped buying it. Started buying whatever I could get from club members for a while until I got some 15% Wildcat #159. I liked the performance, the price not so much.
Now I run a 50/50 mix of 15% Morgans Omega and 15% Cruel Power. Seems to run my 4 strokes just as good as any other fuel I've run. The oil package comes out to be something lije 17.5% total oil and 2.75% of that castor.
Now I run a 50/50 mix of 15% Morgans Omega and 15% Cruel Power. Seems to run my 4 strokes just as good as any other fuel I've run. The oil package comes out to be something lije 17.5% total oil and 2.75% of that castor.
My Feedback: (1)
Jim
My Feedback: (1)
I did some quick numbers for mixing my own, in the end for smaller batches like 5, 6 and 7 gallons I would only save about the price of 1 store bought gallon, not enough for all the BS in doing so,, to add that did not include shipping to me
to make 6 gallons
Nitro,,,,,,,,,,,$65 a gallon
Methanol,,, $35 a gallon
Klotz oil,,,, ,$54 a gallon
now add stabilizer and shipping
Jim
to make 6 gallons
Nitro,,,,,,,,,,,$65 a gallon
Methanol,,, $35 a gallon
Klotz oil,,,, ,$54 a gallon
now add stabilizer and shipping
Jim
For me the point of diminishing return is at 15%. Now if I was a balls out pylon racer things would look quite differently.
Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-07-2019 at 05:50 PM.
My Feedback: (1)
S&W adds only 17% for most off the shelf stuff, S&W has good prices, $20 for 15% Nitro,, $24 for 20% Nitro
and fo me it said Shipping was only $16, I have to question that.
but my Saito manuals call for no less than 20% oil, I do not see any 20-20 4 Stroke oil, but as Geeker said before, it can be ordered
RC Airplane 4 Cycle - S-W Fuels
Jim
I run all my Saitos inverted except the one in my Sbach which is mounted -45°. The vents are all located in or near the cam boxes. For those configurations I see no excessive wear to the valve trane and the rocker arms are always wet using 17% oil. If I had an upright mounted saito, especially one with a rear vent, I would probably pull the rockers covers periodically and put in a drop or two of lube, even if using a 20% oil package. Even running them upright during extended breakin purposes indicates to me reduced valve trane oiling. The rockers don't seem to dry out per se, just less oil present than running inverted.
There are many testimonies where folks have run their saitos inverted on 14% total oil content for many years with no problems. I'm not ready to try that quite yet.
There are many testimonies where folks have run their saitos inverted on 14% total oil content for many years with no problems. I'm not ready to try that quite yet.
Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-07-2019 at 06:47 PM.
My Feedback: (1)
what's going on here with VP>>>
standard 20% Nitro/ 18% Oil with synthetic & Castor,, $165 a case,, $27.50 a Gallon,,
YS/Saito 20-20,, fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, $246 a case,, $41 a Gallon,,
(6 Gallons in a case)
that's a $14 difference per Gallon, what are they doing there that justifies a $14 difference per Gallon ??
Jim
standard 20% Nitro/ 18% Oil with synthetic & Castor,, $165 a case,, $27.50 a Gallon,,
YS/Saito 20-20,, fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, $246 a case,, $41 a Gallon,,
(6 Gallons in a case)
that's a $14 difference per Gallon, what are they doing there that justifies a $14 difference per Gallon ??
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 06-07-2019 at 06:53 PM.
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
what's going on here with VP>>>
standard 20% Nitro/ 18% Oil with synthetic & Castor,, $165 a case,, $27.50 a Gallon,,
YS/Saito 20-20,, fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, $246 a case,, $41 a Gallon,,
(6 Gallons in a case)
that's a $14 difference per Gallon, what are they doing there that justifies a $14 difference per Gallon ??
Jim
standard 20% Nitro/ 18% Oil with synthetic & Castor,, $165 a case,, $27.50 a Gallon,,
YS/Saito 20-20,, fully synthetic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, $246 a case,, $41 a Gallon,,
(6 Gallons in a case)
that's a $14 difference per Gallon, what are they doing there that justifies a $14 difference per Gallon ??
Jim
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
Jim, here is another option, at least for comparison: https://fhsoils.com/product/fc-fuels/
Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-08-2019 at 02:42 AM.
Well, Wildcut will not be shipping any of that to my door
I have bought and used some store-bought VP fuel in the past. It does come in metal cans, that is likely the reason they ship in 6 gallon cases rather than 4 as the jug dealers do. I don'y buy fuel in plastic in any case.
Your prices for fuel components are getting hit hard in one place; $35/gallon for methanol is downright ridiculous. I get it for under $3/gallon, delivered to my driveway in 50 gallon drums. As an alternative, I can buy 5 gallon cans of VP methanol from the local, non-NAPA , independent auto parts store for $35/5 gallon can! The last batch of nitro was $200/5 gallon can. Maybe you should check for a local VP dealer and buy methanol closer to home. Of course you could drive out here for a visit
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
At 30 minutes, nice and clean
Idle at 40 minutes 1,970 rpm
Max rpm at 50 minutes run time, 9,860 rpm
Saito 56 bent rod fix. New rod, piston, Piston pin, piston ring, new Boca Bearings-C-3.
Saito 56 plain
Prop===APC 12 x 6
Plug===Fox Miracle
Fuel===Wildcat 10% full synthetic
Exhaust=stock cast early version
Broken in in 10 minute intervals at 1,000 rpm increments
I did some quick numbers for mixing my own, in the end for smaller batches like 5, 6 and 7 gallons I would only save about the price of 1 store bought gallon, not enough for all the BS in doing so,, to add that did not include shipping to me
to make 6 gallons
Nitro,,,,,,,,,,,$65 a gallon
Methanol,,, $35 a gallon
Klotz oil,,,, ,$54 a gallon
now add stabilizer and shipping
Jim
to make 6 gallons
Nitro,,,,,,,,,,,$65 a gallon
Methanol,,, $35 a gallon
Klotz oil,,,, ,$54 a gallon
now add stabilizer and shipping
Jim
From memory, the last 7 gallon batch of 14% Nitromethane, 14% Synthetic, 2% Castor fuel batch from this spring cost:
Methanol (5 gallon VP can) $35.00
Nitromehane (1 Gallon from a 5 gallon Torco can from last year @$211.00/5 gallons) $42.20
Oil , 1 gallon $40.00
Divided by 7 gallons comes to 22.74/gallon
Making your own isn't really about saving money for the most part. It is knowing what you are getting that I like.
Anyhow, If I were ordering; Those VP 6 gallon, metal can cases would be the selling point.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 06-08-2019 at 08:18 AM.
Jim, here is another option, at least for comparison: https://fhsoils.com/product/fc-fuels/
Most fuels are good it seems.
Just a personal preference perhaps but, for several reasons I have avoided fuel in plastic jugs.
We had a group batch buy of fuel in our club several years ago. Came from a major fuel maker. Every person had the same problems with every gallon of fuel from that batch. All problems went away when fuel was changed. Obviously the maker ( still making fuel today) has a bad batch. Despite the overwhelming "proof" that maker refused to stand behind their product. I still refuse to buy from them .
Just a personal preference perhaps but, for several reasons I have avoided fuel in plastic jugs.
We had a group batch buy of fuel in our club several years ago. Came from a major fuel maker. Every person had the same problems with every gallon of fuel from that batch. All problems went away when fuel was changed. Obviously the maker ( still making fuel today) has a bad batch. Despite the overwhelming "proof" that maker refused to stand behind their product. I still refuse to buy from them .
Last edited by Jesse Open; 06-08-2019 at 11:10 AM.
Most fuels are good it seems.
Just a personal preference perhaps but, for several reasons I have avoided fuel in plastic jugs.
We had a group batch buy of fuel in our club several years ago. Came from a major fuel maker. Every person had the same problems with every gallon of fuel from that batch. All problems went away when fuel was changed. Obviously the maker ( still making fuel today) has a bad batch. Despite the overwhelming "proof" that maker refused to stand behind their product. I still refuse to buy from them .
Just a personal preference perhaps but, for several reasons I have avoided fuel in plastic jugs.
We had a group batch buy of fuel in our club several years ago. Came from a major fuel maker. Every person had the same problems with every gallon of fuel from that batch. All problems went away when fuel was changed. Obviously the maker ( still making fuel today) has a bad batch. Despite the overwhelming "proof" that maker refused to stand behind their product. I still refuse to buy from them .
My Feedback: (1)
sorry
Jim
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
Saito 56 plain
Prop===APC 12 x 6
Plug===Fox Miracle
Fuel===Wildcat 10% full synthetic
Exhaust=stock cast early version
Broken in in 10 minute intervals at 1,000 rpm increments
I just watched a video by David McIntire breaking in a new Saito 56 with an APC 12 x 6 mounted, It turned 9,840, I'm in good company.
Prop===APC 12 x 6
Plug===Fox Miracle
Fuel===Wildcat 10% full synthetic
Exhaust=stock cast early version
Broken in in 10 minute intervals at 1,000 rpm increments
I just watched a video by David McIntire breaking in a new Saito 56 with an APC 12 x 6 mounted, It turned 9,840, I'm in good company.
What ARO did you use? The staining could be from other oils that will not mix. Funny because not everyone gets those green tint jobs.
If I mentioned the actual maker we could have WW3! It isn't that their fuel is bad; A matter of them not taking care of a bad batch they made.
It really wouldn't matter which manufacturer sent me bad fuel, if they didn't own up to it I would never buy fuel from them again either.
Well, finally got some flying in. First time in a year, nearly exactly to the day too. Got my FG-11 fired up and it ran like crap, could not get decent top end and it would burble. I wound up replacing the plug and adjusting the valves, then a slight lean on the LSN, did the final trick. Ran perfect after that, and just sipped fuel. I got 8 flights in, used maybe half a tank, which I think is an 8 ounce tank.
I wanted to maiden my Somethin Xtra, got the rebuilt 72 fired up, had to replace the cylinder on it from last years crash, and should have replaced the bearings as they howl a bit, but feel smooth as silk, go figure. I got it running beautifully, started to taxi out and the rudder stopped working. Turns out that was the best thing to happen because EVERY pushrod on the plane was bad. The thread diameter on the rods, or the clevis inside diameter are off and the clevis pull off the rods given enough force. With the tail wheel bouncing through the grass, that was enough to yank it out. Needless to say no flying for that plane. My LT-40 was the only plane I flew, and had I known that would be it, I would have left the trailer at home. I decided I didn't want to be futzing around with an unknown motor with having the run up stand, so the T-clips sat in the trailer too.
Oh well I at least got to tow with my somewhat new truck to get an idea how it handles. Just great, really liking this truck.
Now to find out what the gap should be on the plug and get the old one cleaned and gapped. It is still good, just has carbon on it.
I wanted to maiden my Somethin Xtra, got the rebuilt 72 fired up, had to replace the cylinder on it from last years crash, and should have replaced the bearings as they howl a bit, but feel smooth as silk, go figure. I got it running beautifully, started to taxi out and the rudder stopped working. Turns out that was the best thing to happen because EVERY pushrod on the plane was bad. The thread diameter on the rods, or the clevis inside diameter are off and the clevis pull off the rods given enough force. With the tail wheel bouncing through the grass, that was enough to yank it out. Needless to say no flying for that plane. My LT-40 was the only plane I flew, and had I known that would be it, I would have left the trailer at home. I decided I didn't want to be futzing around with an unknown motor with having the run up stand, so the T-clips sat in the trailer too.
Oh well I at least got to tow with my somewhat new truck to get an idea how it handles. Just great, really liking this truck.
Now to find out what the gap should be on the plug and get the old one cleaned and gapped. It is still good, just has carbon on it.
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
For the FG 11 spark plug: Dimensions are as follows; Hexagon width: 8mm Screw size: UNEF 1/4-32 Reach (with a washer): 5.5mm Spark-gap: 0.4-0.5mm For replacement, please specify SAITO SP-1 . Since our four cycle engineuses a mixed gasoline, please decide the numbers of flights by yourself and clean the spark plug.
.4 mm equal 0.015748"
.4 mm equal 0.015748"
Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-09-2019 at 01:10 PM.