FeiBao Rafale Disaster
05-29-2007, 09:51 AM
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FeiBao Rafale Disaster
As you can see in the video, the crash was due to flutter. But what caused the Flutter is not enough hinged points on the control surface. I believe the wings flexed at the center hinge point and fatigued that hinge, then as you can see the wings violently fluttered and sent the jet to its doom. I am posting this to see if anyone else can come up with another conclusion. The servos gears were not striped and the titanium rods were still intact. I managed to save the retracts, although I have to replace all the o-rings and nylon spacers. The Turbine is ok I have broken it down and I have to replace all the electronics, bearings, and housing parts, but none of the internals were damaged.
vido link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe7sZl1cZs
vido link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe7sZl1cZs
05-29-2007, 10:32 AM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
BirdorpraY
How many hinge points does the elevon have? Were the hinges glued in at the factory? On my MB 339 I have replaced all the hinges with Robart hinges, the hinges used by Feibao look like Robart hinges but are nothing like as tight when you flex them against the pin i.e at 90 degrees to the hinge line. Just an idea.
John
How many hinge points does the elevon have? Were the hinges glued in at the factory? On my MB 339 I have replaced all the hinges with Robart hinges, the hinges used by Feibao look like Robart hinges but are nothing like as tight when you flex them against the pin i.e at 90 degrees to the hinge line. Just an idea.
John
05-29-2007, 10:48 AM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
ORIGINAL: john agnew
BirdorpraY
How many hinge points does the elevon have? Were the hinges glued in at the factory? On my MB 339 I have replaced all the hinges with Robart hinges, the hinges used by Feibao look like Robart hinges but are nothing like as tight when you flex them against the pin i.e at 90 degrees to the hinge line. Just an idea.
John
BirdorpraY
How many hinge points does the elevon have? Were the hinges glued in at the factory? On my MB 339 I have replaced all the hinges with Robart hinges, the hinges used by Feibao look like Robart hinges but are nothing like as tight when you flex them against the pin i.e at 90 degrees to the hinge line. Just an idea.
John
John, I used the feibao hinges ,I have extra that came with the kit and I just compared the two and only diffrence is the pin that holds the hinge together are diffrent. Robart uses steal pins and feibao uses brass pins I have flexed both and they seam the same.
05-29-2007, 11:19 AM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
ORIGINAL: BirdofpraY
As you can see in the video, the crash was due to flutter. But what caused the Flutter is not enough hinged points on the control surface. I believe the wings flexed at the center hinge point and fatigued that hinge, then as you can see the wings violently fluttered and sent the jet to its doom. I am posting this to see if anyone else can come up with another conclusion. The servos gears were not striped and the titanium rods were still intact. I managed to save the retracts, although I have to replace all the o-rings and nylon spacers. The Turbine is ok I have broken it down and I have to replace all the electronics, bearings, and housing parts, but none of the internals were damaged.
vido link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe7sZl1cZs
As you can see in the video, the crash was due to flutter. But what caused the Flutter is not enough hinged points on the control surface. I believe the wings flexed at the center hinge point and fatigued that hinge, then as you can see the wings violently fluttered and sent the jet to its doom. I am posting this to see if anyone else can come up with another conclusion. The servos gears were not striped and the titanium rods were still intact. I managed to save the retracts, although I have to replace all the o-rings and nylon spacers. The Turbine is ok I have broken it down and I have to replace all the electronics, bearings, and housing parts, but none of the internals were damaged.
vido link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oe7sZl1cZs
didnt see this one yet..
did you speak to Fei Bao or to the us importer?
05-29-2007, 01:42 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
Dave,
Just guessing here... Looks like the control horn pulled out in the turn, then the surface fluttered off. From the look of the hysol joint to the horn which is smooth and shiny, it would appear you did not sand the horn surface to give some bite to the horn. I typically skuff the carbon horn surface with 40 grit or a permagrit file to make it rough, allowing the glue to get a good hold on the horn. Sorry for the loss bud [sm=crying.gif]!!
Todd
Just guessing here... Looks like the control horn pulled out in the turn, then the surface fluttered off. From the look of the hysol joint to the horn which is smooth and shiny, it would appear you did not sand the horn surface to give some bite to the horn. I typically skuff the carbon horn surface with 40 grit or a permagrit file to make it rough, allowing the glue to get a good hold on the horn. Sorry for the loss bud [sm=crying.gif]!!
Todd
05-29-2007, 01:46 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
I have talk to TAM and he believes it was a failed hinge. The only bad thing about three hinges on a large control surface is that when one failes they will all fail. So I suggest that if your building a Feibao or a x-tremejets Rafale have at least 5 hinge points on the control surface so that the stress or even a possible bad hinge will not excerpt all the stress. My next Rafale will get Robart hinges and 5 hinge points.
05-29-2007, 01:53 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
Todd, I did scuff the horn surfaces look at the glue joint you can see the gluetits are still there. Look at the video again the up and down motion ripped the surface open and split the join. If that was ripped right out the gluetits would not be there and they would be in the horn.
05-29-2007, 01:54 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
I was there and I have to say it was quite a loss 
Glad to hear that you can fix the turbine up and that the gear sort of made it though. I should have taken pix of the scorched area that the jet left. I am really surprised that the fire didn't start spreading faster! Sorry for the loss! ...oh I am the guy that ran out there with the water bag in case you are wondering. -Steve
Glad to hear that you can fix the turbine up and that the gear sort of made it though. I should have taken pix of the scorched area that the jet left. I am really surprised that the fire didn't start spreading faster! Sorry for the loss! ...oh I am the guy that ran out there with the water bag in case you are wondering. -Steve
05-29-2007, 01:58 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
Hey, Steve thanks for the hand in putting out the fire. Club members like you and the others that helped this situation out is what makes the ocala field a great place to fly. It seemed like we had that fire out in 5 min. Also want to say thinks to Jack and our club prez Dominic for helping too.
05-29-2007, 03:43 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
ORIGINAL: lov2flyrc
I typically skuff the carbon horn surface with 40 grit or a permagrit file to make it rough, allowing the glue to get a good hold on the horn.
I typically skuff the carbon horn surface with 40 grit or a permagrit file to make it rough, allowing the glue to get a good hold on the horn.
05-29-2007, 04:38 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
Also guys look at the 3rd picture, there is alittle tell all tail there. There is a hump right at the hinge where it buckled which created a domino effect to the rest of the control surface. At least that is how I see it. Also I did not cut any corners and used only the best that the market had to offer for this jet and it still failed. well I am back at it working on my Hawk, and I most likely will pickup another Rafale.
put a small wren in it. -Steve
05-29-2007, 06:35 PM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
Same thing happened to my A-4 but I believe that the clevis or the servo mount failed. Flutter will always cause hinges to fail if your moving fast enough. I personally think my mount was the failure point and not the clevis or hinge.
05-30-2007, 03:31 AM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
BirdofpraY,
Very sorry to hear about your loss. Now it's my turn to get worried as i have bought 2 FB Rafale (1 sport and 1 Camo). I have already finished the wings with 3 hinges each (although i found that 3 hinge points were somehow weak for such a plane but have trusted FB afterall, I guess i was wrong).
The second Rafale will surely have extra hinge points.
It's been a while, i have been trying to look for flight reports for this plane but in vain.... Now I have one!!!
How many flights did you put before this unfortunate incident?
Any idea what should be done at this stage? Anyone else had similar experience?
Thanks. Dany
Very sorry to hear about your loss. Now it's my turn to get worried as i have bought 2 FB Rafale (1 sport and 1 Camo). I have already finished the wings with 3 hinges each (although i found that 3 hinge points were somehow weak for such a plane but have trusted FB afterall, I guess i was wrong).
The second Rafale will surely have extra hinge points.
It's been a while, i have been trying to look for flight reports for this plane but in vain.... Now I have one!!!
How many flights did you put before this unfortunate incident?
Any idea what should be done at this stage? Anyone else had similar experience?
Thanks. Dany
05-30-2007, 04:22 AM
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RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
ORIGINAL: i3dm
Lots of problems with Fei Bao jets lately...[
]
Lots of problems with Fei Bao jets lately...[
]
05-30-2007, 05:28 AM
#24
RE: FeiBao Rafale Disaster
ORIGINAL: djindivik
Please don't say that, I'm waiting for my Velox to be delivered ! ! ! Ray
ORIGINAL: i3dm
Lots of problems with Fei Bao jets lately...[]
Lots of problems with Fei Bao jets lately...[
]
3 on the flap
3 on aileron
