crashcrash

Direct Drive...holy grail or achillies heel? Seems like a lot of us "got it handed to us" on this one for one reason or another.

rcmiket

Jury's still out on this one. Been playing in the kitchen all day with the stock set up. At least I can still fly. Glad I saved all the "old" stuff. Ordered 2 more DD motors and will give it one more shot. 2 weeks till the T REX gets ordered. LHS swears that they will give me the best deal. I'll keep ya posted.

crashcrash

Yeah...I'm glad I did too...I'm still flying

rcmiket

Is this fun or what. What chargers are you using? I've got a couple of the stock chargers and a Eflilght Celectra. Looking for something better to take care of the batteries. Thanks

Wnuk

I'm confused also, but I'm learning! Yes, the 4530 is the supplied prop with the kit.

I'm making some educated guesses here. A 4530 means it is 4.5 inches long with a pitch of 3. So my 5030 is 5 inches long with a ptich of 3. The larger diameter "should" cause less RPM. Less RPM should mean less current draw producing a cooler running motor. The reason I am using the 5030 is becuase it was the extra prop I ordered with the kit but they supplied the wrong one. So it is an experiment so to speak.

I also had another theory. I'm just thinking out loud here. You mentioned earlier that maybe I could just reverse the prop to get it to produce the proper thrust deflection. For you guys that have tail motors burn out, maybe reversing the lead wires and props might be the answer. These are DC motors and are only meant to run in one direction. If they are run in the opposit direction, the brushes/magnets give up and cease to work. This is just a Theory and in no way am saying it is correct, I'm just thinking out loud to see what others might say.

Jim

mrasmm

yeah, you're absolutely right. The brushes when arranged in a push situation instead of a dragging situation will eventually get caught on one of the splines on the commutator and it will bend it backwards and bend it over backwards. For some good pics of what I am talking about, check out the break-in post over in the electric heli forum =)

crashcrash

I knew it was bad to run them backwards...I just knew it. Reversing the prop...no harm-no foul with the bushing eh? Appears to be a friction compression type locking system. It really don't care which way the propeller is mounted.

rcmiket

The motor I burned up in about 8 minutes time had the polarity stamped on the plastic case. I didn't break it in (my mistake) but 8 minutes that's insane. I ordered 2 more replacements which I'll break in we'll see how it goes. Meanwhile I put the stock system back on have been playing all day with no mishaps. (yet) ..........

crashcrash

Well...a lot of it depends on the batch of motors you get. I've NEVER broke them in. Some last two days, some last over a month. I know I should "break them in". Causes more normal and even wear to the guts and makes everything work smoother together, and reduces friction and excess heat build up. But being how I never break them in...I know a weak motor from a good one within a few days. Yeah...I can be a MORON if I work at it.

mrasmm

wow, that didn't make sense

Anyways, what is the color of the end bells people are using on this cn12? I've seen some black and some white/grey. I was wondering if that is a high/low voltage designation. I think a pretty good way to tell would be the resistance of the motor. Mine is a black endcap with 1.2 ohms resistance. What does everyone else have?

ArrowNaughtic

Anyone know if the flybars for a honeybee CP2 will work on the Blade CP and CP pro? I went to the LHS today and they didn't have any flybars.........except in the crash kit. I ended up getting the Helimax Axe CP flaybar...perfect fit, but was 5 bucks for one. Helidirect has flybars with 2 in a package for 5 bucks too. But the Esky Honeybee CP2 flybars are 3.75 for two. [link=http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_66&products_id=703]Honeybee CP2 Flybar[/link]
I will be getting 2 sets so will be curious as to what will work, and what won't.
crash.......... yer one of the experts on that (I got 3 tail booms for same heli for the blade......Good find!!) but am curious how different the head systems are on that. The LHS doesn't carry any esky heli parts so it was helimax or try to straighten out the 2 bent ones I have.
Still have a wobble in my head, I think I may have a bent washout link or swash to mixing arm link. Spooled it up to about 30% throttle and still have a slight wobble with just the flybar in and centered/balanced. As soon as I get blades on, it will be magnafied greatly and am afraid i will bend a shaft. Picky lil critters......but so sweet when its dialed in!


Mine is also black mrasmm............


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Of all the things I ever lost.............................................. ..... I miss my mind the most!

mrasmm

one other thing you can do is just buy cf rod and thread it.

This pic is from the stacy's and how they get custom length flybars

Barrrick

My Feedback: (2)

BRIAN : this is RICK I have just now read your post and I SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR THINKING AT LEAST 150% percent.
I also believe that way too much tinkering is happening with the CP series, when in actual fact they are EXACTLY what is required to LEARN THE BASICS. I still have my 3 O.O.B. in pristine condition, All I do is keep the batteries charged up and replace them after each training exercise. I have YET to do a Long or VeryHigh flight, but only because I am limited by my own driveway in front of the house.... The ONLY observation in a negative way is on the CP Yellow where it is very clear that the original motor is putting out less and less power. I have the replacement motor ready and will change it soon. All else , works just fine. I do have a replacement set por the PRO ( Motor - gyro and ESC) which will be used when I am finally ready for real unlimited flight. THANK YOU FOR THE LEADERSHIP, I admire your flying and the sane intelligent concepts you espouse.

RICK

Wnuk

I'm back to the stock tail motor setup.

7 minutes into a hover flight and the DD tail starts doing the Hokey-Pokey! The CN12 was too hot to even touch. [X(] The theory I posted earlier is obviously not correct.

I guess I'll see how you guys make out with the motors from Tower Hobbies. Until then, stock motor for me.

crashcrash

I'm not liking this Mr. Spock, Maybe we should beam back up to the Enterprise...what do you think "Bones".

Wnuk

Funny you should bring up Star Trek. I just read in yesterdays paper where Scotty's remains were balsted off into space on Saturday.

I'm not liking it either. $20 for parts that just don't work and are too flimsly. [sm=angry_smile.gif]

crashcrash

Me too...might have been what triggered that response ( brain is funny like that ). I'll tell you...I've heard that this DD setup is the cat's meow...when it works (???). Best bet for success...use the stock propeller from the kit (reversed on the shaft), use the CP STOCK GEARBOX and adjust CG as needed. I think it'll work out, but I won't find out till the two motors arrive. I'll go ahead and break a motor in for an hour when I get them. All you're really doing breaking them in is seating in the brushes and polishing the armature. Remember the old slot cars (N or O scale). Used to have to fuss with brushes alot and keep the armature clean for top performance because you didn't win races with a dirty motor or bad brushes.

choppersrule

Choppersrule Here:

DD UPGRADE:

Well, I purchased 3 motors, for the DD upgrade, one for the CP, one for the Pro and an extra. I started out on my experimental heli, the CP.. Motor one, lasted about 5 or 6 minutes, motor 2 lasted maybe three, motor 3, (not in flight, bench testing) lasted 2 minutes and started smoking...

There's 3 other motors out there (on the web), I've been looking at, I'll order them tomorrow. So, it'll be a week or so, before I can post results.. So far, I'm pretty frustrated with this DD thing...

We can't be all doing the wrong thing, to many smart quys out here. And so far, we all seem to have the same problem..
Hmmmmm, is it the wrong motor? It's sold as a kit! Why in the world are we all having sooo, much problems with this?

Dave / Choppersrule
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crashcrash

Choppers...are you using the propeller that come with the kit on these experiments?

choppersrule

Crashcrash,

The third motor, I was bench testing, didn't even have a prop on it... And that's the one that smoked after a couple minutes..
Had it in the heli,, disconnected the main motor.. Powered up as normal. In normal mode, I move the throttle stick up and the tail motor started to spin, (hey good news), moved the left stick to the right, to increase tail motor speed.. Still okay.. Then the disaster, smoke came billowing(spelling) out.. Crap... End of Story... Already put the stock stuff back on, and gonna order different motors, I mentioned in my last post... I'll order tomorrow, soooo, it'll be a week or so, for testing... We shouldn't have to go thru this, Why are these motors overheating..That's the big question..

Dave / Choppersrule
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xeos

I run the DD tail setup on my bird and the only problem I've had is the occasional tail-hard landing and broken props.

CN12 motor, EP-0320 (3020) prop. I have the tail prop flipped over to the other side of the bird (rotated 180 degrees) and flipped the plug around on the 3-in-1. The heatsink is seated to the motor with Arctic Silver brand thermal paste (the stuff you use on a computer CPU) and is secured in place with a very small bead of Arctic Silver brand thermal adhesive. In this orientation the tail prop draws air from the left side of the bird and pushes it, over the heatsink, towards the right side of the bird. Wiring is looped out & around, well away from the motor and secured with a small zip-tie. I used a Dremel to bore out the stock 'gearbox' so that the CN12 would fit snug and I drilled a small 3rd hole through the mounting plate in order to accommodate the 3rd screw hole in the motor (secure fittings... goooood). Popped the stock bearings out of the mount for the stock tail gear to save on the tiny bit of weight.

I have had 0 problems with this setup. 0 failed motors with quite a bit of flight time on the original. Granted I'm not a 3D pilot so I'm not throwing the bird all over the place. But I do move the CPP around quite a bit in the massive field behind my house. The tail is razor sharp throughout the entire battery pack. Rock solid in HH mode on the G90 and very nimble and precise in SR. I have tried this DD tail setup without the G90 and I really don't like it, feels almost too touchy. I highly recommend using a quality HH gyro with this mod.

All parts were ordered from AlleRC.com. All you need is the GWS CN12 motor, EP-0320 prop & the heatsink. (by pure chance 3 of the screws from a store bought baggie of replacement screws for the CX2 fit this motor perfectly, give it a little threadlock and you're golden)

Below are a couple pictures of my tail. (I know it may not be the prettiest but hey, what are we after here... performance or fluff?)

xeos

Wow, sorry guys, didn't mean for the pictures to be so huge, how does one get them to appear in the tidy little "preview" windows?

mrasmm

it's all good. you just put them as an attachment instead of as a link =)

choppersrule

Crashcrash,

I just got finished putting everything back to Stock for now...The old N30 motor, took about 15 minutes or less to take off the DD system and re-install the N30.... Had a great flight... I'm still gonna investigate into the DD problem, we all seem to have...
I wanna make this work,, The few minutes of flight that I did have with the DD system was really great. Easier to control yaw and more responsive. I could move the tail, left or right, very slow and steady, or snap it... Gotta figure out what we are doing wrong...

Dave / Choppersrule

crashcrash

OK...the motor you have has a WHITE BELL COVER...we all had BLACK. I also see you have inverted the stock gearbox (hey...it works). We're NOT using the same CN12's therein is the problem. What is the CN12 your running RCX or what?