Doppelganger

My Feedback: (1)

The APC 16x8 will give you a very noticeable improvement in flight performance, and vertical. It wont brake as well, but it will be peppier.
I have a 16x8 on my mine, being spun by a SuperTigre 2300. You'll like it I'm sure.

Steve

rccardude04

Good to hear. I don't really need much brake. I live in kansas so we have PLENTY of wind to slow down for landings. I'll carry that 18x6 with me in case I want the extra braking though.
As an added note... 30% heli fuel gets expensive with the Saito 1.80.
-Eric

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

I learned a trick from a scratch builder to keep the cowl screws from backing out. If you have some golden Ni-Rod (yellow inside push rod), insert a piece in the cowl mounting holes. Just drill the holes big enough for a tight fit of the Ni-Rod, then add a drop of CA to hold the Ni-Rod in place. Then use servo mounting srews to attach the cowl. This allows you to insert and remove the screws numerous time and still have a tight fit. Hope this helps.

SigMan

My Feedback: (21)

thanks Vic, sweet tips like that are what make these forums worthwhile. guess whenever i get time to scratch build a plane, i'll have some good info to pass along... i have a SS 120 and Saito 180 and a JR flight pack my wife bought me last christmas in the other room that im determined not to touch til' i have time and energy to enjoy it, til' then i'll just read and learn hopefully. my trainer barely gets a good work-out right now...lol !

rccardude04

Good idea on keeping the screws in there! I got some JR rubber grommets for servos that seem to dampen the vibration a LOT and should keep them from backing out. If it doesn't work though, I'll definitely give that a shot.
-Eric

rccardude04

Alright! I got the thrust angle set down a couple degrees, and realigned the cowl because the holes decided to float when the screws ground through the fiberglass after loosening. I also relocated my switch to just above the left wing in front of the screw that holds the hatch in place so I don't have to open the hatch to turn the radio off after I'm done flying. And I have a JR ChargeSwitch so I can go all day long without opening this bad boy up. I just have to remember to keep loctite on those screws so they don't back out. I already lost one. I can't wait to fly this thing! Going out Sunday. Maybe Friday if I feel up to it. I haven't been this excited about flying a plane in a while. This thing is a blast!
I'm about ready to sticker her up too. Going for concourse points here! (even though I have a few "extra" holes in the cowl. Give me a break it's my first one lol)
-Eric

TeamMuir1

My Feedback: (-1)

I was hoping that everyone would be DL pics so everyone can see each others Planes.
Come on guys... add them to your comments... lets see them

rccardude04

I'll take a picture after I get the stickers on. Hopefully tonight!
-Eric

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

I'm down to the final assembly of my SS120. It's time to cut the cowl for the engine exhaust, mount the fuel dot, and install the electronics inside. I installed my radio switch on the right side just about the wing and ahead of the cockpit screw. This area has "lightning holes" which left little meat to mount the switch. So I fabricated a piece of balsa to fit snugly in one of the holes and CAed it in place.

I like using a third line into the fuel tank with a fuel dot for fueling and de-fueling. This prevents issues with flooding the carb or having to remove the fuel line from the carb for fueling. I don't like mounting my fuel dot on the cowl as it makes for frustration when you remove the cowl. There is no space or solid mounting location outside the cowl on the top side of the fuse near the tank (the cowl covers nearly the entire front section of the fuse). I don't want to put it on the bottom - fuel runs out when you remove the dot due to gravity flow. I might cut out a hole in the cowl just forward of the cockpit and mount the dot through the cowl onto the fuse just above the tank. Any other ideas.

I'll add some more pictures tonite.

rccardude04

I have one small suggestion. If you've already mounted the switch, I'm not sure I would bother moving it, but I noticed that with my Saito 1.80, I am getting some oily residue around the area you mounted your switch on both the top and bottom of the wing. I actually mounted the switch in the same place just on the left side and I added a piece of ply to run the screws into. I'd just be ready to wipe off some oily gunk every once in a while.
As far as the fuel dots, I'm not sure. I've never really used them but I have my remote igniter on top of the plane exactly where you've drawn the potential location of the fuel dot, and I did cut a slot for the cowl to slide on. I am currently using a Du-Bro quick fill fueler valve thing that requires no unplugging of anything. It's kind of nice, but I've heard they can leak after a while. Mine is mounted on a piece of styrene on the bottom of the firewall and is accessible through the cooling hole I cut in the bottom of the cowl.
My high speed needle is also accessible through this hole if I put an extension on it. I'll try to get my stickers on tonight and maybe take some pictures.
-Eric

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

Eric, I have installed a Webra Speed 1.20. I have a pitts style muffler that should discharge exhaust under the bottom of the plane. The carb is on that side of the plane and if it burps fuel, there may be some residue that may come out of the cowl vent on that side (I should have thought about that). I have not seen a Saito that runs without leaks so I feel your pain with the oil residue.

I have used the same type of fueler you have and had relatively good luck with them. Just be sure to pop out the internal shutoff valve when you complete fueling by rapidly pulling out the fuel connector. I don't think I would locate the fueler at the bottom of the firewall for a few reasons. You may be close to the exhaust pipe/muffler and therefore you risk getting burned when fueling after a flight. If it is not near the muffler, you will still need to reach under the plane to insert the fuel connection - poor access. Finally, the fueler will be below the tank and may result in fuel leaking out by gravity. Just my 2 cents...

rccardude04

I understand what you're saying, but my fueler is opposite of my exhaust so that's not really an issue. If it leaks through that thing, I'd rather find out that it leaks while it's on the ground rather than finding out when my engine dies during a stall turn or something. I've decided that if I have ANY trouble with it, I'll go to a fuel dot setup.
Can you draw a picture in paint or something detailing how a fuel dot works? I know there's usually 2 extra lines but there's only 2 coming from the tank. And how do we keep fuel from forcing itself into the carb during fueling?
I wonder where this oil is coming from. I really think it's the exhaust from my inverted flat spins and other low speed post-stall maneuvers. It looks like burnt fuel and I have copper RTV on the exhaust and intake sealing them up, so I don't think it's coming from there. Weird.
-Eric

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

I looked for a picture of a three line fuel system but I don't have one. It is really simple. One line goes from the tank vent to the pressure connection on your muffler (that is like you normally have). Another line goes from the carberator to the tank connection with the "clunk" attached (that is like you normally have). Now, the third line goes to a copper tube used as the fill connection on the tank. This is similar to the vent connection but the copper tube goes down to the bottom of the tank instead of up to the top of the tank. You just connect a piece of fuel line to the third connection and it is blocked off with the fuel dot. This give you a straight shot to the tank for fueling or de-fueling. When you want to fuel or de-fuel, remove the dot and connect your fuel pump - voilla!! Another trick I use is to connect a short piece of fuel line to the copper tubing, inside the tank, for the third line. This short piece of fuel line extends from the copper tubing to the bottom of the tank. This allows you to pump out all of the fuel without having the copper tubing rubbing on the bottom of the tank. OK??

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

Here are a few pictures of my SS120. I have added only a few decals because I did not want to make it look to ARF-ish. I included a few shots of my switch location and the fuel dot installation. The bottom of the wing is just plain white so I added a few BIG stripes to make it more visable (not an original idea but effective).

rccardude04

Fuel dot makes more sense now. That's kind of how I thought it would work. Does fuel not fill into the carb like that though? I guess the extra volume exiting the thing will take the path of least resistance (out the muffler) but I'm still a little sketchy on it.
I have pictures. If I can resize them I'll post.
-Eric

rccardude04

Let's see how that works...
Yay it works! And, I was able to use stickers to cover pretty much every unused hole in the cowling! So now all I have to do is go behind it with some fiberglass cloth and epoxy to make sure it doesn't push the stickers off and I'm good to go! I might have to break our routine and go fly this thing on Friday. I'm excited!
And yes. It's on my bed. I am living at home through college so I don't really have a workshop. If I got enough of a raise at work though, I'd probably try to move out and get my significant other to join me. But right now I'm stuck here working on airplanes in the place I sleep. LOL. Whatever works, right?
-Eric

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

Here is a sketch of a 3-line fuel system. You attach a fuel line to the fueling connector (red) and install a fuel dot when you are not filling or draining the tank. When the tank is full, the overflow will come out through the vent line to the pressure tap on your muffler.

TeamMuir1

My Feedback: (-1)

There is only one problem with that diagram that I PERSONALLY dont agree with
I Not only use my third line to FILL.. but to also EMPTY.. your third line in the pic.
shows that the line it self does not go to the end of the tank... I there again
I PERSONALLY .. use a 2 clunk system....I have NEVER had any problems...ever...
and if you are ready to pack up and go home.. NOW you have the same feature to EMPTY
your tank... completly..

iFLYrc_Vic

My Feedback: (6)

Yep, some folks use a clunk on the fill line and the line to the carb. I just use on clunk line as I fear two clunk lines would get tangled. As you can see, the fill line has a piece of fule line on it that goes to the bottom (not back) of the tank. I get MOST of the fuel out when draining through this line.

rccardude04

Cool, that's what I thought it worked like. It still seems like maybe some fuel would be forced in the carb once your tank was fuel but it doesn't really matter I guess.
I did fly it tonight though! My couple of extra degrees of down thrust seemed to make it a little happier and it didn't want to climb as badly as last time, but it still does a little bit. I think I'll end up putting a washer behind the engine mount on the top bolts so I have something easier to gauge how much I'm doing against.
The 16x8 prop rocks! SO much more airspeed than the 18x6. It was REALLY windy. I mean, on a sunday night, there's usually anywhere between 10-20 people out there flying. Tonight, just me. I had a buddy with me but that was it. I flew the SS twice but he didn't get a chance to fly his big stick. We called his wife and she said that weather channel said the winds were 26 with gusts to 31+. It felt windier than that but that's the official report. Anyway, I'm still more impressed with this plane every time I fly it. It's awesome!
Excessive horsepower is nice too. One approach wasn't working out. Getting tossed around a LOT by the wind, borderline stalling the thing to try and stop the ballooning from the gusts and when I firewalled the throttle, the thing shot up like a foamie. My friend who was with me said that it was worth the trip out there to watch that one vertical launch from near stall speeds. It was crazy.
Also, I had my little mount for the du-bro fueler fall off the wood, so I glued it back on. I think I'm going to drill a hole and run a wood screw or two in there to keep it more solid than the CA did. It's just too fragile.
Anyway, off to put some down thrust in her. I'll be sure to report next week how it all works out.
-Eric

rccardude04

Flew 3 times tonight. Made sure to get some more elevator travel out of her and now the inverted flat spins are almost motionless. It's like the plane isn't hardly even flying. I also mixed out some of the elevator coupling during knife edge flight. It was super windy so I don't know how close it'll be, but I have a feeling it'll be closer than it was before. I'm getting +15% up elevator mix to rudder. Does this sound normal? It seems a little high to me but I still think I need a smidge of down thrust, which will only make it worse.
As a side note, I flew my raptor 50 helicopter, and this week I remembered how to fly a heli. Last time I went out with the thing, I was hovering about 90% nose-in 50 feet up and pretty much just forgot what was going on. It took me like 5 seconds to tell myself "alright elevator, rudder, aileron, collective okay there you go." Weird.
-Eric

rccardude04

Alright, I have a prop question. I really thing I need just a little more prop on this plane. I really enjoy the slightly higher speeds I get from the 16x8, but I miss the strong climb of the 18x6. Has anyone tried an 18x8 prop on the Saito 1.80? It's a lot bigger engine than the 1.25, and Saito recommends/benchmarks the same prop on each engine (16x8). It just seems to me that the 1.80 should be able to swing a little bigger prop than what it is now.
I am running 30% heli fuel by the way.
-Eric

kruzin55

After a few beers in his hanger, I ended up buying my buddies' Super Star 120 as a present for myself (52 on Monday). It was put together by one of our best builders and has never beenflown. Gas tank still in plastic bag and cowling not drilled. No prop or spinner, but did have a new Futaba S9202 (76 oz-in) servo on the rudder and four new JR WEH 531 (51 oz-in) servos on the ailerons and elevators. I have been wanting to try a 25% gasser and thought it was a good deal for an entry level 3D at $300. I planned on keeping it in the basement until spring and my budget and skills improved.

But, I'm addicated and have no will power. Roaming the damn internet late Saturnight allowed me to find an SPE 26cc Gas Engine for $252 on the web from http://www.valleyviewrc.com/. Web page listed a cell phone and Tom was very helpful and not annoyed at all when I called him Sunday morning to add a 3" New Balance aluminim spinner ($30), three 18''x8" JXF wood props ($45), a gas tank and pump ($40), and two 4.8v 2100mAh Dalham NiMH batteries ($35). Now I'm into this plane for $700 and I still need to buy the Spektrum 6200 receiver ($72 at the LHS). Its amazing what the cost of a few beers in a buddies hanger will amount to.

Still, no regrets until I found this forum with all the discussion of $99 purchases and the need to reinforce the fuse behind the landing gear, I guess I didn't do so well. Maybe I did if I consider that the five servos go for about $150 new. Any advice on any of my late night choices would be appreciated. Also, since I'm already committed to this plane, I would appreciate any other advice on how to finish her off.

Chris V.

brown2x2

My Feedback: (35)

I wouldnt put a 26cc on this plane. I find this motor to be short on power. I have a BCMA 26cc and should of went the 36cc for power.

brown2x2

My Feedback: (35)

Mine is for sale.