sgbfly

Hi Ken,

Thanks I will look into it for the next revision.

ATM: I need to

1) Alter step 20 to remove the optionally (tks Tom)
2) Insert instructions about the gyro and switch (tks Spiros, Peter & Dan)
3) Add a trouble shooting page (tks to those that have patiently followed)
4) Elaborate on trim / mixer / limit / gain functions
5) Link to some new Youtube vids
6) Check pictures (tks Ken)
7) Add comment about gyro proximity to motor
8) Try and smuggle in a inconspicuous word or reference to "chicken"
9) Add comment that the FM version works great (tks Tom)

Anything else? Please tell me!

Simon

rikybob

7) Express mail Rikybob his chicken!
(Come on Simon. You knew that was coming!)

R/B

barak1001

How many seconds delay do you need in order to get it to arm? Since no one is willing to try it out on their BOL, I'm going to order a 5v capacitor and then play around with resistors to see what gives me the proper delay.

sgbfly

Hi Tony,

My guess is not much at all and possibly less than a second. I base this estimate on mine working w/out switch or delay so it could well be a knifedge situation

Perhaps Spiros could do some tests........

Simon

rikybob

(Written as if this was Rikybob's private blog)

07:12 hours and I hear the rain from an impending front bouncing off of the roof. I am trapped at home with the beginings of a sinus infection and weight the virtues of why it would be "OK" to burn off a few packs. I say to myself "It's not raining THAT hard", "The rotor wash would prevent rain from getting into the canopy!". "Rain, rain go away...". Grrrrrr!

Rikybob




Edit: I was able to burn off two packs in the calm before the storm. I am exhibiting strange behavior. I, through some bizarre behavior almost wsa able to replicate yet another "Death dive", twice. What the hey?

aircrash

Hi Simon,

I had always left the esc to stop making sound and left a little more time but never saw what`s about the time it takes.
But I did test that just right now.

At least in my setup -with those diferent esc- it needs <u>at least</u> 9 seconds so the gyro can get initialized afterwards.
Better think of 10 seconds.
As the time it takes in this video also.

I think a capacitor will not be able to give that delay in no way. Even if it could then it would be needed a low value resistor in parallel connection after the capacitor so to discharge it very quickly. Why? Cause if you connect the li-po and then for some reason you disconnect it (eg. did not locked) then the capacitor is about charged and thus the delay time is decreased in the next (soon) powering up.
But that low value resistor that is connected in parallel draws -will draw- too much current, making the BEC to have a hard time.

A time delay circuit could be used. Even a simple one. But it is not easy to get or make or as simple as the switch.
Although the idea of an automated procedure -just plug the li-po - is good and the best it could be.
Work on it and Ihope you get it done.

Spiros

sgbfly

Hi Spiros,

Thanks

That makes it even more puzzling as to why mine works OK without a switch.

Also, I like where you have put the gyro. Plenty of distance from the front motor

Simon

aircrash

I put it there just for the testing, so the Rx is laying down and making more easy the plugging - unplugging the red wire of the gyro to the Rx.
I have not tested flying that way. I put them back like as you have done.

sgbfly

Oh I see

I guess fitting the rx antenna into the canopy limits options.

Simon

aircrash

To be honest I just did what you have done.
Your BOL flies like a dream, so why bother trying something else?

sgbfly

Hi Rikybob,

You sure its not bird flu - (could not resist sorry)

Get well soon mate.

Simon

ps. potential flying day for me Saturday morning

barak1001

I researched time delay circuits first. The problem with doing one is that you have two options there, solid state with an oscillator built into a PIC chip that you have to program, or a huge circuit that's weight makes it impractical.

I think a 5v PIC chip programmed for a 10 second delay would be perfect in this instance, but unfortunately there's not a pull off the shelf chip that I've found pre-programmed for this purpose.

aircrash

Hi Rikybob,

well... it happens to rain even in the sunny places!
Here it was also raining in the morning. A not too often phenomenon, the often is the sun.
But I had a more hard time than you.
I thought the weather would be just like it was yesterday, sunny, as usual, and woke up late. So I had to go to work by my bike instead of the car.
And I had all that rain... but I had a good protection... not even a drop in my clothes / shoes.

So don`t be disappointed, there is always worse... it could mostly rain and be sunny for a few days...

Hmm, as for the almost death dive, was it a bit windy?

PS. I had a terrible cold that I passed it to you (you and Simon) I think.
I hope it is not something serious and it`ll go very soon.


Hi Tony,
I hope you can work this out. I like you`re considering the size and weight also. As well the availability.

Spiros

rikybob

Yah Spiros,

You gave me and Simon a vicarious cold. This morning apparently I just took leave of my senses and motor skillls. I lost control prolly cause I'm sick. Idiot! I put the bird back up. Speaking of which my 22 bux worth of long shafts made it from China. I will replace inner shaft after my next crash. I hope its a while. To be honest I rolled the original one on the counter and it was flat unlike my outter shaft......anyhoo, you have fun with your project and I am goint to heal!


Regards,

Rikybob

rikybob

Phunny you say that Simon, But alas, I got the injection. It could just be general oneryness!

Regards,

Rikybob

Edit: I must be sick, I just got the pun! Chicken=bird.........I luv a running joke!

patricklupo

Regarding the gyro power-on delay needed to allow the 2.4GHz reciver to come up.

If it were me, I'd look into whether the voltage coming off the receiver'sorange LED is sufficient to power the gyro. The behaviorappears to be that the reciever's LEDcomes on, then flashes, turns off, and then comes back on for the duration of the flight. IF the LED's output voltage and current can adequitely power the gyro, then it would only be permenently powered up whenthe receiver fully initalized. A side effect would be that the gryo would be also turn off and on while the receiver was "booting", but that doesn't seem like a problem. If not, then perhaps asmallmosfet with a resistor onit's gatepin could be connected to theLED'soutput toact as an on/offswitch for the gyro.

The 4066 qual bilateral switch is a CMOS chip I used back in the days when I was into building personal robots. It's essentially a low power chip with 4 mosfet based switches that run off as low as 3 volts toturn on and off an electronicswitch. One advatage of it over a singlemosfet is that the input is electrically isolated from thething it's turning on and off (much like an SPSTrelay). If someone can verify that the reciever's LEDoutput producesas much as3 volts, then this is an option.

For FPVreasons, I'm changing my Big Lama toa Hitec72MHz radio &amp; receiver (which comes on instantly), so Iprobably won't be tinkering with the 2.4GHz reciever delay issue. Please be careful anduse the info aboveat your own risk. The voltage and current output of such a small LEDis usually only 10mA and cannot power even a micro relay coil.

Ddaddy

Tony,

Hang off on that a day or 2. I'm going to scope the signal as it powers on and upload as a vid. This should help figure out what needs to be done as it may only need a 5.x volt zener clamping that line to ground too.....anyway...seeing the initial signal shold help you. Got baseball tonight with sons so hopefully tomorrow I'll have it up.

Ken
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aircrash

Hi Patricklupo,

So if I understood right then you`re saying to power the gyro out of the receiver`s LED. Either directly or by a using it as a triggering to a relay (mechanical or electrical, mostly electrical as you also say).
But that would require to open the plastic cover of the Rx and then soldering to the LED`s terminal? Did I got it right?
If yes then it`s a bit difficult to do for some people.
If no please explain more.

I have seen that it does not matter if gyro gets on-off. At least to the initialization. What`s important is the delay (so the Rx has become initialized firstly). Even if the gyro goes off and then back on then it will get initialized, no matter how many times you switch it on-off.
What only matters is that the Rx has to be initialized first then the gyro powered for the first time or again (switched off and on afterwards).


Spiros

aircrash

But that wouldn`t work either.

As I saw again my video the led becomes steady sooner than 9 seconds. Right about when esc have stopped beeping.
But if you power the gyro before 9 seconds (at least) have passed then it will not get initialized. It needs more time after the esc have stopped beeping.
I`ve tried at 8 seconds, it`s a no go.

In second thought the esc may play a role on that delay time and/or the problem itself. That`s why I had said from the beggining "with my esc".
At least with my esc the time needed is 9 seconds, better think of 10 to be 100% positive in all cases (with these esc).

EDIT: addition

I tested again so to double check.
The funny thing is that this time the led do not get steady after the esc had stopped beeping. It took way more to get permanently lit.
And the gyro did not get initialized even at 10 seconds...
So a 10sec delay won`t work either.
It seems the switch is the way to go.

I don`t know if this has to do with the fact the previous time the Rx had initialized I did not input any Tx action, and maybe the Rx thinks it has recovered by a voltage drop.
Or that the Rx binds fully to the Tx at different time, for some reason.
It must be something like that.

aircrash

And the more funny thing is that in this video the Rx gets initialized even more sooner than the esc has stopped beeping...
The opposite...

So I guess the time to power the gyro differs from time to time...

I always think that you can`t know how electronics think... they have a personality...
Sometimes they get lazy, the other tired, the other drunk and the other just mad... (mostly cause of hardware bugs)
I have mostly seen that in the PC hardware (not software related problems), but now I think R/C has the same strong personality electronics...

sgbfly

Hi Guys,

This is my thought on the matter.

The gyro needs to see a rudder signal or else it wont initialise and starts flashing error. It can only successfully see a rudder signal after the servo twitch shortly after first connecting a lipo (assuming the tx was on first). At the same time as the servos twitch the rx led goes solid orange. So the servo twitch and solid rx led indicate rx initialisation and it was my guess that at this moment you could turn on the gyro manually or automated. My servo twitch is only a second after connecting a lipo.
However, Spiros's observations conflict with this so I don't know what to think.

Are there several versions of the ek2-0426 in circulation? Is there something about Spiros's esc's which upsets things. Spiros it would be interesting to know how long after you connect a lipo your rx led goes solid (and/or your servos twitch).

Until tomorrow.....

Simon

PS. I am out of my depth with electronics but it looks like we have some good brains on the case now. I look forward to learning from you guys!

aircrash

Hi Simon,

I **should test:

1. With the 3in1 and the brushed motors.
a) So to see how long it takes for the Rx to get a solid lit led.
b) If the time is always the same.
c) how long it takes for the servo to twitch.

2. Without the mixer, only one esc, the gyro to CH4 (with a swicth on its red wire) and a servo to the gyro.
So to check the above.

3. With the complete ready to fly boardless brushless system.
Again to check all the above.

Then run again the same tests but this time after the Rx has been re-powered. I mean after it had been powered, then off, then on again without any Tx action between in any powering on/off.

Then again I should try with the new Rx and it would be better if all these would be tested again with another Tx, one like yours (actually I mean yours).

**I say should and not could because it is too much to do and I must have the time and the willing to do.

But I think I remember that even with the 3in1 the Rx did not get a solid lit led soon. But I can`t recall for sure.

PS. The good thing is that it works.

Spiros

twisted blade

Question for the Big Lama guys, will the 3 in 1 run on a 2 cell (7.4v)?

I want to use it on a smaller coax.

sgbfly

Hi,

Dont know but if I had to guess I would say no. I think the Big Lama 3in1might be programed with fail safes for an 11.1V system. By this I mean it monitors voltage and reduces power below 9V.

I notice Esky use a different control board for the 7.4V system so this adds to my reasoning for saying no.

Simon

sgbfly

Hi Patrick, Tony, ken &amp; Spiros,

May I throw this into the mix. I have just had an exchange of pm's with one of our boardless friends on the other channel

In answer to the question: What is the minimum time in seconds after connecting the lipo before you can do the switch to initialise the gyro?

A: "the time is different each sync. Sometimes its right away 1-2 other times its about 4-5 seconds"

Am I right in assuming that with the 2.4GHz system this time is the time the rx takes to scan for and lock on (synchronize codes) to the tx its bound to, and then it initialises? And if there are other 2.4GHz devises close by eg bluetooth, wireless LAN, Other models, etc this process may take a little longer (this second sentence sounds dubious to me - I don't have the background knowledge)

Simon