Welcome to Club SAITO !
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my 130T is on it's way to Colonial Beach, VA, I wonder what it's going to do when it gets there, will it fly, or will it be an admired beauty queen under glass ?? LOL
Jim
Jim
Good morning Pete, or evening to you. I will cut and past the Bench Mark numbers for the 125 and the 115 that are shown over her at Horizon.
From the 125 specs:
Benchmark Prop:APC 16X6 @ 9000 rpm
Saito 115 specs===Benchmark Prop:APC 15 x 6 @8800 rpm
My own numbers for the newer 125 I bought are:
On 10% with 18% full synthetic and a Fox Miracle Plug.
Master Airscrew 16x6 Classic max rpm==9,025
Graupner Super Nylon 15x8 max rpm===8,885
I haven't tacked it with the C&H Ignition, I want to play with the timing a little. The timing is currently at Dan's recommended 35 degrees BTDC.
There was a time when Horizon stated that the rpm were obtained using 30% nitro methane fuel, they no longer state that and I wonder if it's because too many were taking that as gospel and that led to many on here saying that Saitos NEEDED 30% to run right. Which of course they don't need any nitro methane at all. Although they do respond to it very well.
From the 125 specs:
Benchmark Prop:APC 16X6 @ 9000 rpm
Saito 115 specs===Benchmark Prop:APC 15 x 6 @8800 rpm
My own numbers for the newer 125 I bought are:
On 10% with 18% full synthetic and a Fox Miracle Plug.
Master Airscrew 16x6 Classic max rpm==9,025
Graupner Super Nylon 15x8 max rpm===8,885
I haven't tacked it with the C&H Ignition, I want to play with the timing a little. The timing is currently at Dan's recommended 35 degrees BTDC.
There was a time when Horizon stated that the rpm were obtained using 30% nitro methane fuel, they no longer state that and I wonder if it's because too many were taking that as gospel and that led to many on here saying that Saitos NEEDED 30% to run right. Which of course they don't need any nitro methane at all. Although they do respond to it very well.
Get ready for some serious power. I just bought an FA-220 with the 12mm carburetor "hop up kit" and Saito aluminum engine mount on e-bay. All NIB.
What do you think the power output of a high compression FA-220 with the 12mm carburetor & ported intake manifold will be?
I'm estimating a bit over 4 HP with 15% nitro.
OF please take notes.
What do you think the power output of a high compression FA-220 with the 12mm carburetor & ported intake manifold will be?
I'm estimating a bit over 4 HP with 15% nitro.
OF please take notes.
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
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Thanks Pete and Wasper, for anyone who might be interested Tower Hobbies is having a FREE/REDUCED shipping month, I know they don't have a lot of stuff for Saitos beyond OS-f plugs and Xoar and Master Airscrew props. They have a lot of items for the planes we put them on. Tower is employee owned now and in my opinion deserves our support.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-12-2017 at 07:02 AM. Reason: Add a word
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Since the Saito gassers have a locating pin on the crank to assure repeatability, you could make permanent marks on the case with a scribe or light center punch marks.
Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 12-12-2017 at 02:04 PM.
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Thanks Dan, and while mentioning C&H Ignitions, the C&H module makes a way hotter spark then the stock Saito Ignition. that is if you can judge by the audible crack made by the C&H unit. You have to watch really close to see and hear the Saito unit's spark.
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I screw a spark plug into my 4-way glow plug wrench for ease of handling, clip the spark lead to it and lay it on the bench. I rock the crank back & forth listening for the crack and observe where on the degree wheel it occurs. No buzzers or fancy smany led indicators.
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This was my 2.20, John at IronBay was concerned that the IronBay regulator would not flow enough fuel for the 2.20 but it did and you could enrichen it down by about 100 rpm. Adrian now has it.
Yours looks good.
Yours looks good.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-12-2017 at 09:39 AM. Reason: Spelling
Senior Member
I put a witness mark on the case & magnet ring (with C&H systems) to allow returning to the initial setting. With the Saito system you could make a mark on the Hall sensor holder & case. I have also calculated 4 degree increments using the circumference of the case snout and marking the case. Divide the circumference by 90 and that will give you the 4 degree distance. You can "split the difference" for 2 degree increments.
Since the Saito gassers have a locating pin on the crank to assure repeatability, you could make permanent marks on the case with a scribe or light center punch marks.
Since the Saito gassers have a locating pin on the crank to assure repeatability, you could make permanent marks on the case with a scribe or light center punch marks.
Senior Member
If the "pump" needle valve is adjusted properly, the system is self regulating according to RPM. The trick is that the adjustment on the pump needle is counter intuitive. You screw the needle out to reduce fuel pressure thus leaning out the mixture. Another trick is to make sure the carburetor needle is adjusted properly at the factory recommended pump adjustment and then fine tuning fuel pressure for the best low speed response.
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My 2.20 came with no instructions, (for the pump) at the time, does your manual have those instructions? Thanks
I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers, I ran mine yesterday on 10% fuel with a Xoar 12x6 mounted.
Equipped with a brand new Saito cast/revised muffler.
Max rpm===10,240
Idle sweet===1,950 with brand new OS-f
I'll run a Turbo Header in a day or two.
I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers, I ran mine yesterday on 10% fuel with a Xoar 12x6 mounted.
Equipped with a brand new Saito cast/revised muffler.
Max rpm===10,240
Idle sweet===1,950 with brand new OS-f
I'll run a Turbo Header in a day or two.
Senior Member
My 2.20 came with no instructions, (for the pump) at the time, does your manual have those instructions? Thanks
I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers, I ran mine yesterday on 10% fuel with a Xoar 12x6 mounted.
Equipped with a brand new Saito cast/revised muffler.
Max rpm===10,240
Idle sweet===1,950 with brand new OS-f
I'll run a Turbo Header in a day or two.
I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers, I ran mine yesterday on 10% fuel with a Xoar 12x6 mounted.
Equipped with a brand new Saito cast/revised muffler.
Max rpm===10,240
Idle sweet===1,950 with brand new OS-f
I'll run a Turbo Header in a day or two.
Something I'm interested in checking is the I D of the FA-220 intake manifold. The FA-220 takes the same 11mm carburetor as the FA-180. If the I D of the FA-220 manifold is 11mm like that of the FA-180, there will be little benefit in bolting a 12mm carburetor directly to the smaller manifold. I bored the FA-180 manifold out to 12mm up the the bend allowing a denser charge up to that point, leaving the last leg @ 11mm to increase velocity as it enters the port which is still the smaller diameter. If the port of the FA-220 is large enough and the manifold is 11mm I D I may enlarge it to 12mm all the way to the port. As always I will do modifications incrementally to gauge improvements or the lack thereof. If I reach a point with the manifold where performance deteriorates, I can replace the manifold and chalk up the expense to education.
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Dan, I searched the net and found the picture I took when I sold my 2.20, it came with an intake pipe,for each carb, I think the intake pipe for the large carb had an ID the same as the carb. My memory is not real clear on that though. Maybe Adrian at C&H would know.
Horizon actually has the large carb and pump system in stock. https://www.horizonhobby.com/fuel-pump-w-large-bore-carburetor%3A-ad--ae-sai220a150
And the intake pipe, no specs for either. https://www.horizonhobby.com/intake-...d-ae-sai220a69
Horizon actually has the large carb and pump system in stock. https://www.horizonhobby.com/fuel-pump-w-large-bore-carburetor%3A-ad--ae-sai220a150
And the intake pipe, no specs for either. https://www.horizonhobby.com/intake-...d-ae-sai220a69
Last edited by Hobbsy; 12-13-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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I need someone with Saito .56 experience to share their prop numbers,
Dave, my Saito friend,,,check out my link, it should help
, https://www.youtube.com/user/dmrcfly...query=saito+56
Jim
Dave, my Saito friend,,,check out my link, it should help
, https://www.youtube.com/user/dmrcfly...query=saito+56
Jim
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BTW, you guys talking Saito written RPM numbers,, something was not brought up about those numbers and I just want to remind you all, nothing was said about what Plugs were used, we know plugs make a big difference with peak RPM numbers so we should post what plug was used when giving numbers, this is in considering that Saitos are such special engines,, also a give plug will work slightly different with different brands of fuel with the same Nitro percent and different oil brands and weight,,
to note, with Magnum 20% 18% the OS 8 plug produced 500 RPM over the hotter OS 7 on my OS 61Fx (yes yes OF LOL, a nasty ol 2 stroke )
BTW, I made a snow man yesterday with my new daughter in-law, she has never seen snow before this winter, I wished so much that OF was there to help give suggestions, it would have help greatly
Jim
to note, with Magnum 20% 18% the OS 8 plug produced 500 RPM over the hotter OS 7 on my OS 61Fx (yes yes OF LOL, a nasty ol 2 stroke )
BTW, I made a snow man yesterday with my new daughter in-law, she has never seen snow before this winter, I wished so much that OF was there to help give suggestions, it would have help greatly
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 12-13-2017 at 10:24 AM.
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my 10,240 is right there using the Xoar.
see here, Saito tests numbers are with an APC, the Xoar of the same size and pitch pulls more air, therefor if you get close to the same numbers Saito reports you know you got a very good engine,, on my Magnum 180 Fr an APC 17X8 got me 8.800, while the Xoar of the same size got me 8.200,, the Xoar 17X6 "6" got me 8.600. all proving that the wood Xoars pulls more air
Zingers are very light and do unload more that other wood props, I don't know if they flex or not
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 12-13-2017 at 10:59 AM.
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SrTelemaster150,, if you look at the West modified Magnum 4St (see my link) you will see that they use a short straight Intake manifold, with a non-Magnum Carb (looks like Perry to me),, I would bet that Manifold has a larger ID than the stock manifild,, if an Ironbay regulator is used I would think that setup should work on a Saito too
Jim
tuned by west
Jim
tuned by west
Last edited by the Wasp; 12-13-2017 at 11:57 AM.
Senior Member
SrTelemaster150,, if you look at the West modified Magnum 4St (see my link) you will see that they use a short straight Intake manifold, with a non-Magnum Carb (looks like Perry to me),, I would bet that Manifold has a larger ID than the stock manifild,, if an Ironbay regulator is used I would think that setup should work on a Saito too
Jim
tuned by west
Jim
tuned by west