Welcome to Club SAITO !
05-25-2020, 01:46 PM
Saito 115/125 head to head runs
Both engines were run using the same fuel, glow plug and props. Both engines have new cams, tappets and bearings but the new parts are well broke in. The engines were run one after the other within a 30 minute time span.
Fuel: 15% Synth/2.5% Castor, 15% Nitro
Props: APC Sport
Glow Plug: OS-F
Valve clearances: . 0015"-.002"
Temp: 78°f
Humidity: 58%
RPM is peak sustained for 30 seconds minimum
HP is calculated
FA125
16x8 (8050) 1.969 HP
17x6 (8370) 2.116 HP
15x8 (8940) 2.083 HP
16x6 (9000) 2.064 HP
14x8 (9960) 2.186 HP
15X6 (9960) 2.161 HP
FA115
16x8 (7830) 1.812 HP
17x6 (8170) 1.968 HP
15x8 (8680) 1.907 HP
16x6 (8700) 1.864 HP
14x8 (9800) 2.083 HP
15X6 (9850) 2.090 HP
Vibration was close to the same for both engines once leaned with the 125 being a little smoother over all. The 115 transition time was slower than the 125 using larger props but seemed just as fast using the smaller props.
Both engines show reduced calculated horse power with the 15x8 and 16x6 props. Those two sizes are apparently not true to pitch, especially the 16x6, which should offer less loading than the 15x8.
Both engines produced .0035 horsepower per gram of weight
No miracles to see here, just good solid running Saitos!
Fuel: 15% Synth/2.5% Castor, 15% Nitro
Props: APC Sport
Glow Plug: OS-F
Valve clearances: . 0015"-.002"
Temp: 78°f
Humidity: 58%
RPM is peak sustained for 30 seconds minimum
HP is calculated
FA125
16x8 (8050) 1.969 HP
17x6 (8370) 2.116 HP
15x8 (8940) 2.083 HP
16x6 (9000) 2.064 HP
14x8 (9960) 2.186 HP
15X6 (9960) 2.161 HP
FA115
16x8 (7830) 1.812 HP
17x6 (8170) 1.968 HP
15x8 (8680) 1.907 HP
16x6 (8700) 1.864 HP
14x8 (9800) 2.083 HP
15X6 (9850) 2.090 HP
Vibration was close to the same for both engines once leaned with the 125 being a little smoother over all. The 115 transition time was slower than the 125 using larger props but seemed just as fast using the smaller props.
Both engines show reduced calculated horse power with the 15x8 and 16x6 props. Those two sizes are apparently not true to pitch, especially the 16x6, which should offer less loading than the 15x8.
Both engines produced .0035 horsepower per gram of weight
No miracles to see here, just good solid running Saitos!
Last edited by Glowgeek; 05-25-2020 at 03:26 PM.
05-25-2020, 04:18 PM
Fuse is all covered, so got the engines out, weighed them, and was right, the Saito is lighter by 3/4 ounce. It also has same mount dimensions. It is a bit longer So sticks out. Fitted the cowl, and found the exhaust is in a different location, go figure, and the best way is to use a 90* adapter, so thats on my list. Have not yet decided if I want to make a new cowl, or just repair this one.
Yeah, I know, my bottom strip is off, must have marked it wrong, or moved the rudder when I marked it and didn't catch it.
Yeah, I know, my bottom strip is off, must have marked it wrong, or moved the rudder when I marked it and didn't catch it.
Last edited by acdii; 05-25-2020 at 04:21 PM.
05-25-2020, 04:45 PM
Thanks. Aside from the cowl and stickers, just need to put in an RX and center the servos and controls. I could fly cowl less for the first flight or two, depends on how long it takes to do the wing. I still have 3/4 of it to sand the adhesive and primer off. I repaired the leading edge that was damaged and it looks good as new.
05-25-2020, 06:20 PM
My Feedback: (1)
Lonnie, thanks for the numbers, they are very interesting,
what it comes down to is,
A) on one hand Engine 1 is a bit more powerful but heaver.
B) on the other hand Engine 2 is a bit less powerful yet lighter.
I find the 15x6 numbers to be very interesting.
you have to get them heavily propped to see a big difference.
and as for the 115 pushing the 14x8 to 9800, now here, people report the 100 pushing the 14x8 to only 8900.
Jim
what it comes down to is,
A) on one hand Engine 1 is a bit more powerful but heaver.
B) on the other hand Engine 2 is a bit less powerful yet lighter.
I find the 15x6 numbers to be very interesting.
you have to get them heavily propped to see a big difference.
and as for the 115 pushing the 14x8 to 9800, now here, people report the 100 pushing the 14x8 to only 8900.
Jim
05-26-2020, 03:14 AM
05-26-2020, 03:27 AM
You're welcome and thanks, it was a fun endeavor. No eye popping numbers and I was let down a little by APC with the 15x8 and 16x6 showing skewed numbers. To be honest I had considered posting embelished numbers for those two props due to the obvious fact they loaded both engines more than they should have, but what the heck, it is what it is.
05-26-2020, 05:08 AM
05-26-2020, 10:44 AM
Mike
05-26-2020, 11:46 AM
It will be quite a few years before I get to build the B-17, and I haven't confirmed if the 91's will work yet, but thanks for the offer. I still have my B-25 to finish, and have yet to get the center section finished. I put it aside to clear out some quicker to finish planes as I ran out of room to work on it. I will also need to reconfigure the work benches in order to build it since I need 11 feet of flat space to lay it out.
I also figured out why the muffler doesn't work with the Chipmunk cowl. The exit on the Magnum is angled back, so the muffler was inside the cowl. Can't do it that way with the Saito. I'll figure something out where I don't have to cut the heck out of the cowl. The engine is mounted @ 45*. If I went 90 it would probably work better, but then I have to redo the mount and throttle cable. Will be nice to get it done and flying, from the little bit I did get to fly, it performed pretty good.
I think I might repair the lower wings for the Biper Cub next and mount the OS Gemini II 120 on it. That plane needs a lot of nose weight to counter the extra wing, and the OS is a brick. I do have two other planes the Magnums work on, the Corsair and a 10-300 Ultimate Bipe. As it sits now, I already have 13 planes at or AFR in my trailer. I have 6 more that I want to complete and have flying before I start on the last kit I have, the P-61 and the 6 or 7 sheet plans planes I have that I need to layout and cut the parts for, and that doesn't include the Top Flight kits I have on my system already to be proofed. Geez, now that I look at it, If I were to retire today, I have enough work here to keep me busy for ten years or more.
I am almost finished with my workbench though. The hinges for the doors came yesterday, so just have to mount those and find some handles, I may have a pair of brushed nickel knobs that will match the handles. I still have to get operating systems installed on the remote server that will eventually control the Sherline and Laser. I have Centos 7 installed as the base OS to run the Virtual Server software, but having issues with the networking and found that the Lightburn software for the Laser doesn't run on Centos, so will need two different versions of Ubuntu installed because the Sherline software is only 32 bit, and Lightburn is 64 bit. Oh and I still have to network the laser too so I can attach to it wirelessly from my laptop until I get the server working. I now have it setup to use one outlet instead of several, so I can move it where ever I want within the reach of the exhaust instead of being tied in to the length of the coolant lines, the chiller is behind it on a cradle now that is on wheels.
And yes, I do still play with Lego, that's a harvester I built from the parts of the bucket excavator kit.
I also figured out why the muffler doesn't work with the Chipmunk cowl. The exit on the Magnum is angled back, so the muffler was inside the cowl. Can't do it that way with the Saito. I'll figure something out where I don't have to cut the heck out of the cowl. The engine is mounted @ 45*. If I went 90 it would probably work better, but then I have to redo the mount and throttle cable. Will be nice to get it done and flying, from the little bit I did get to fly, it performed pretty good.
I think I might repair the lower wings for the Biper Cub next and mount the OS Gemini II 120 on it. That plane needs a lot of nose weight to counter the extra wing, and the OS is a brick. I do have two other planes the Magnums work on, the Corsair and a 10-300 Ultimate Bipe. As it sits now, I already have 13 planes at or AFR in my trailer. I have 6 more that I want to complete and have flying before I start on the last kit I have, the P-61 and the 6 or 7 sheet plans planes I have that I need to layout and cut the parts for, and that doesn't include the Top Flight kits I have on my system already to be proofed. Geez, now that I look at it, If I were to retire today, I have enough work here to keep me busy for ten years or more.
I am almost finished with my workbench though. The hinges for the doors came yesterday, so just have to mount those and find some handles, I may have a pair of brushed nickel knobs that will match the handles. I still have to get operating systems installed on the remote server that will eventually control the Sherline and Laser. I have Centos 7 installed as the base OS to run the Virtual Server software, but having issues with the networking and found that the Lightburn software for the Laser doesn't run on Centos, so will need two different versions of Ubuntu installed because the Sherline software is only 32 bit, and Lightburn is 64 bit. Oh and I still have to network the laser too so I can attach to it wirelessly from my laptop until I get the server working. I now have it setup to use one outlet instead of several, so I can move it where ever I want within the reach of the exhaust instead of being tied in to the length of the coolant lines, the chiller is behind it on a cradle now that is on wheels.
And yes, I do still play with Lego, that's a harvester I built from the parts of the bucket excavator kit.
05-26-2020, 12:51 PM
The hardest part will be me keeping stuff OFF of it. That bench looks neat, but you should see the fall out from building it! I have 6 other benches covered with.....stuff. I have useful piles of wood, but no where to put them. On one bench I have a pile of balsa sheets that were scraps from the Rascal 168 that I am going to cut some strips out of and toss the rest, but need room on another bench to do it, on that bench are remnants of my B-25 build that need to be organized, another bench has pieces of the P-51 build that were on a cart that I removed to make room for the new workbench, along with a couple plastic models I started working on, and things I don't have a place for yet. The bench my Sherlines were on has stuff that needs to be separated and organized into drawers in the new bench since they are tooling and accessories for the mill and lathe. I then need to go through the top shelf, and bottom shelf on that bench and toss, or organize what is there, and then make some pockets from 1/4" ply with the Laser for holding drills and other power tools under my big workbench. The big bench has the Chipmunk on it. The last bench has my belt sanders, scroll saw and coffee maker on it. I think I will find a place to store the CM since I moved to a French Press and a 1 liter hot water maker.
And I wonder WHY my planes take forever to finish, constantly moving things around to make room for something. At some point I will get it organized, but deciding what to keep and what to toss is the WORST part! At least the good news is once we can go back to the office I can use my desk for working on plans and models, it's a glass desk, so lay the plans out and put a light under it for tracings. I have a laser copier next to it on another desk that I can scan into the computer with.
I need to clean out another section of basement so I can move some shelving there and make more room. I want to get those two shelving units out from behind the new bench which will give more floor space, though I may leave them and just get the stuff that is on them out of here so I have room for things that are clogging up other areas.
Yeah, reason my building takes so long, always working on other things. At least I finally got the tire rack put up that I bought nearly 2 years ago.
And I wonder WHY my planes take forever to finish, constantly moving things around to make room for something. At some point I will get it organized, but deciding what to keep and what to toss is the WORST part! At least the good news is once we can go back to the office I can use my desk for working on plans and models, it's a glass desk, so lay the plans out and put a light under it for tracings. I have a laser copier next to it on another desk that I can scan into the computer with.
I need to clean out another section of basement so I can move some shelving there and make more room. I want to get those two shelving units out from behind the new bench which will give more floor space, though I may leave them and just get the stuff that is on them out of here so I have room for things that are clogging up other areas.
Yeah, reason my building takes so long, always working on other things. At least I finally got the tire rack put up that I bought nearly 2 years ago.
05-26-2020, 01:04 PM
My Feedback: (1)
Jim
05-26-2020, 03:25 PM
