Txmustangflyer

For as expensive as a Moki is, compared to some other Radials, y'all seem to have to do a lot of modifications to get em to run right...

Hyjinx

Hello Moki enthusiasts and detractors.
I am in the market for a used but we'll maintained Moki 150 or 180. Will pay 75% of value paid by the original owner. One owner engine with purchase documentation considered only.
Engine to be inspected before sale by an authorized Moki service center at my expense.
Prefer a 180 with the blue box ignition. Will accept a 150 with a top hat.
For all who feel these engines don't meet their standards. This is your semi-golden opportunity.
to get a fair return on investment.
This is a offer by a private individual. I have no affiliation with the Moki brand or any of it's retailers. Engine must be with in 1000 miles of Michigan U.S.A.
Respectfully
[email protected].

Millsra

Just a quick note for anybody doing maintenance on the newer 250s. The prop bolt size is 20mm. You need the deep socket to remove it. In the US Lowes sells individual sockets with 1/2” drive or you can get them as a set.

ChemE

Please remember to use an appropriate torque wrench to measue the break-awy torque during removal which can be higher by 10 to 15% than the tightening torque. It may be more if it has loc-tite or having gone through heat/cool cycles. Also, the torque to tighten a bolt varies with lubrication. A dry bolt may require 70inlbs of torque, while if wet with loc-tite for example, it may only require 55 to 60 inlbs. Bolt torques are critical to maintaining engine integrity. The torque wrench pictured below can go in both directions.

Didier

Hello guys. Just received my new Moki 180.
A lot of people seems to use the APS fuel pumps but did someone tried these Kolm vector fuel pumps?

https://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/...2&d=1460258018

Millsra

Hey Didier,
Im not familiar with this pump but it looks like it would be sufficient for the 180, I can tell you this, I have the APS on a programmable mix and the Moki 250 runs fine with the pump only running at 30 percent output, I run a curve from 30 to 60 percent at full throttle. Is the one you’re looking at programmable.? I think not. Good luck!

Txmustangflyer

aww heck...give it a hundred percent and lose the smoke pump...what could go wrong :-P

Didier

Hey guys.

We tried to run and start one of the 2 new Moki 180 the day before yesterday . I sayed tried, as the engine was only able to run for a couple of second and then dies. We tried to start for 2 hours and then we could get it to run for a couple of minutes. Runs really rough and the lower cilinders didn’t fire. We tried to run it leaner with limited results. If you go full power, it sounds like all cilinders are firing but when you go to mid or idle you miss one or 2 cilinders.

yesterday we tried to start it again. Same result. 3 man with a sour shoulder trying to start the damn thing.

some fact:

- 2s lipo used on Ignition

- fuel 1:40 like they do in the factory

- removed the plugs couple of times to make them dry

-L need 1,75 open. H needle 1,25 open

-pulse line is clean (brand new engine)





I have a Saito 60 an 90 radial and they are so much easier to start and to adjust. Always a couple of flips and it runs. So we are a bit disappointed now. Any suggestions will be very much appreciated. I’ve read that an after market Ignition system seems to work better? CH or rainbowtronic? Good idea to leave the frustration behind and buy one of these directly?

affas

We did have 2 new Moki 180 here in Norway. We could not get them running well. They went back to Airworld for service and when we got it back after some weeks but same result.

We did buy 2 pc from Adrian at www.ch-ignitions.com and both just ran as Swiss watches. Never looked back, still performing flawless 5 years later now

Didier

So you advice the CH Ignition. Thanks for suggesting.
What are you’re needle settings? I don’t believe our engines did run in the factory as it did not run with the factory settings. Any other mods you guys did? Fuelpump?

Txmustangflyer

I advise ch ignition for any engine.

Didier

They seems to be better then the Rainbow tronics? Or is it more or less the same?
I like the fact the CH is only one unit as the rainbow consist of 2.

Txmustangflyer

I've never owned a rainbowtronix, I, however, have dealt with Adrian for a number of engines over the years. He not only does good, reliable, ignitions, but backs his products 100 percent. Have an issue and he fixes it.
Turn around on orders and service, if needed, is fast, his work is excellent. I will go to no one else. Its to the point if I order an engine, I order an ignition for it from him. The engine's factory ignition stays in the box. His flies.
If its an ignition he hasn't done, then you may need to send him the engine, but you will get an ignition you should never have a problem with.
He's also very particular on the engines he sells. Each is tested prior to shipping to a customer so he, personally, knows everything is perfect. Your next radial purchase should be done through CH. He sells the full UMS line. I'm not knockong Moki's, I just trust Adrian. He wouldn't sell an engine line if he didn't know it inside and out and recognised quality.

Didier

Thanks you very much for your reply. Unfortunately I live in Europe so not easy/very expensive to order from the US a radial engine. I guess Ignition is a small package and cheaper to send

Txmustangflyer

I imagine there are UMS radial dealers in europe as well. Just get an ignition for it, or your Moki from him. Be the best ignition you'll ever own.
My latest engine uses a ch ignition CDI conversion. It origionally had a magneto/coil setup. On origional setup, idle was rough and shaky..his...smooth as any gas engine can be. Throttle response went from ok to sharp. Its now very reliable...if it quits, its out of gas lol. Iys a heavily modified zenoah G62 now rated at 7.2 hp at 8000 rpm. Adrian's ignition handles it just fine. If he hadn't ben able to do the conversion, not sure I would have went ahead with the modifications. On an engine stand it spun a 23x8 xoar scimitar at 7800 rpm. It will fly with a 23.6 inch 4 blade Varioprop, using pitch to limit rpm to 6400.





Still waiting on bits and pieces

Millsra

Hey Didier,
sorry to hear your having problems so let me chime in with some tips. There’s several things you did not mention in your set up so here goes. 1) plug gap, did you check and set all plug gaps?, 2) valve (tappet) gap? My 250 was significantly not set correct from factory, hard to believe they “test ran” it with improper gap. What’s your starting and choking procedure ? Flooded lower cylinders can make for a long day of spin , nothing, spin, nothing, repeat! So not to insult you technical or mechanical skills but as you know an internal combustion engine only needs three things to run ( actually 4…Air/fuel mix, spark, and compression, Use systematic troubleshooting to check all three of these things. At factory needle setting like you mentioned you should at least be able to get it to kick. Now more into your problem…interference or interruption on any of these things will present like you are stating, rough idle, rough mid, short runs. you say that high speed appears good But I would suspect you are just hearing a misadjusted engine firing on three or four jugs till a second problem presents itself. Look for air in your lines. Check the quality of your fuel, start fresh with a fresh
mix. If you are comfortable opening your carb, check the internal fuel screen, and the setting of the pop off needle. Clean all openings with brake fluid. Check tank lines, a pick up could be kinked. As for aftermarket ignitions, there’s nothing wrong with the factory set up. I chose rainbow for several reasons, mainly features and I do not like the design of the capacitors sitting housed in the second or third HOTTEST point in the engine. Factory ignition is very easy to diagnose, spin the prop and check for spark. You could have a bad coil but doubtful. Many will tell you 3 will not fire until A, you lean the low needle, B, you get airborne, C, you install iridium plug, D, you install or fabricate turbulator style inlet to better distribute fuel air mix or all of the above! I am a Moki rookie and am still struggling with 3 but not giving up yet. My suggestion, solve your run problems before you add more variables. Don’t give up! These engines are worth the extra work once you have them dialed in!!!

Millsra

Can you double check your needle setting, that seems off, should be H1.5 and L1.25 I think you’re way too rich on the low.

Didier

Hello.
thank you very much for your detailed answer. I really appreciate.

We checked the valves but we did not check the plug gaps. We are definitely check it out.
The starting procedure was exactly how it was written in the manual. Choke closed with a couple of turns with the ignition on. After that. Throttle above idle and flipping till it pops. Choke open and starting.
Sometimes it runs for a few seconds and then it stops etc etc. We did drie the plugs, especially the lower ones in several occasions.
Also we use fresh fuel but 1:40. Maybe we have to try 1:50.
I have experience with gas engines like DA, 3W and Saito radials. All were running perfect after adjustment and easy to start. This is the first time we can’t operate an gas engine. I am leaning to a very very sensitive Ignition system that does not operate to its full potential when the carb is not perfectly adjusted.
I am with you I don’t like the philosophy of the Moki ignition. I understand Moki does not produce a ghost spark (spark every 360 degrees) like the after market ignition systems do.
I have read now so many times that people have problems trying to run it and after replacing the ignition system for an CH or Rainbow, all problems disappear.
Anyway, we are gonna check the plug gaps and adjust the valves and are gonna try it again.
Thanks for help and I will report later.

Didier

I think I made a typo mistake.
L 1.25, H 1.75

IFLYBVM2

My Feedback: (360)

Is there anyone in the USA willing to perform service on the Mokis at this point ?
As of this AM, Vogelsang informed me that they no longer work on any Mokis at all outside of the warranty period.
Kinda discouraging to have such a nice investment with no service here in the US -
Thanks-Mike O.
PS Yes, I know that I can probably fix it myself, but I work 60-70 hours per week and prefer to send it to someone and receive it back test run and ready to go.
My hobby time is so limited, I prefer not to do it myself.

Txmustangflyer

Try Adrian at CHIgnition. If he can get the parts, he may be willing. If you can get the needed parts I'm sure he'd help you out.

Eulboyington

Hello Robert,

There is a lot of photos of my guys overhauling MOKI radials on my FaceBook professional webpage, ask "Modelisme Micromoteurs Service" and search into my history !
When OEM MOKI ignitions failed, we have a good alternative in Europe with RAINBOW-TRONIC DIS-5M Ignitions, made in Germany (same price as a MOKI coils pack...) ; when fitted on your engines, you get a wonderful engine and never go back to old ignition !

Best regards from France

Olivier

Millsra

Couple more suggestions as I think about your problem, it’s great you have experience with other gassers will definitely help. When setting valve gap remember there are two lobes on the cam ring so be sure to check through four complete revolutions on the prop. Dr G Vogelsang has a great video under “Coffee with Dr G “ that explains the process. Have you recorded cylinder temperatures on your prolonged runs ? This will help isolate your cylinders that are not firing. Let us know if 50:1 change’s anything. I would pull and clean carb while you’re waiting on new ignition. Good luck! P.s. I installed the iridium plug on the number three cylinder last week. Allegedly the plug has a lower resistance than the standard CM6 and I can tell you the spark seems quite a bit hotter and bluer than the other plugs. Hope this helps. Once you get the 180 running, remember only short test runs on the ground to be safe. Temps should not exceed around 220F for any length of time. Cheers Roy

Millsra

Hey BVM, can’t tell you how sad this is to hear. Hopefully Moki will make this right and we can convince Dr G to get back in the game. He’s way too valuable a resource to not have on our side plus just a super nice guy to work with.

Didier

Thanks for the advice!
That is a good one to check valves twice due to the nature of the cam rings.
I will check dr. G’s video.
I’ve heard different story’s about iridium plugs, but if it works that will be great.
We used a temp gun but I don’t know it that is very reliable.
We did not have time yet to check things out.will let you know!