ml3456

Both generate about 10 HP (lets not get picky on decimal points here!). But 10HP in a 2 pound lighter aircraft is significant.

I think this is what DK was trying to show all of us. Not start another battel between BME and DA, both very fine products that I would be happy to own either. I don't think coolng fins have made that much difference in any of the gas engines used for rc planes. The carb has more to do with engine life than the fins, and both pretty much use the same thing there! Most of our planes are so overpowered will it really make a difference?

ML

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

I don't really like to argue, I think that you are one of those guys that say yeh I have a UCANDO 60 with a Cox .049 and it hovers at quarter throttle, but I will say that you are telling alittle fib,,,,,, hover at half throttle you got that right,,,, I am not the only one that knows that to,, If you made that video make another one with the tranny out in front of you showing at half throttle, I said I was just making visual statements and they are MY opinions only.

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

Heat Transfer in Physics is 100% right, there is no, "mumbo jumbo" its pure fact and proven with any engine or motor. You would care because if we had perfected a motor and could keep it from losing all energy and heat a .40 sized motor would be putting out 10HP! Thats a big number, but we can not possibly achieve that.

Jon, I would love to own a DA 100, but now that the BME 110X is out there is only one reason to get a DA, customer service. The BME 110x is not out at meets yet or seen like a DA 100 because it just came out and Keith is actually selling them so fast he is backordered probably for the rest of the year. Now why would that be?

DA is a great reliable motor, but BME 110X can not be ignored.

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

I agree shortman, time will tell. It is just personal preferance.

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

Just wondering if DA has anything in the pipeline to counter, Or a lighter version.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

3 years ago kits did not have many lighten holes now look at today's kits its lighten everywhere and now a 3-4 year old model looks and seems very heavy. Which brings me to motors, 3-4 years ago all I heard were 3w they are solid, no they were not the lightest around but TOC used them and they made it good enough for you, me, or who. Now at the last TOC, the DA motors were in full command. DA did make 3W look at lighten their motors and improve on their flaws. I have seen a BME 110 at the Triple Tree last year, I only got to see the motor run on the ground. Once in the air DA, 3w, BME, ect as long as its not going to dead stick or have the issues of being made on a Monday or a Friday it's all good to me. I have one of the older Brison 3.2 that has treated me great. I can say that a DA will out turn that brison 3.2 (brison has a new 3.2 coming out). Did I sell my Brison 3.2 to run to get the latest greatest DA no I am still loving mine. I have quite a few brands of gas motors (ZDZ, RCS, Brison, 3W, and BME). I think each CC of motor will bring on a certain preference. If BME does what they say with that 55CC motor coming out at less than 2 lbs, there will be no longer a reason to run a Moki, Satio, and OS model motors in the 1/4 scale business. if BME gets a listing on the OTC, NASDAQ or NYSE, if so I am a buyer...

Its a free country last I checked if a person is not spending your personnel money sit back and watch sometimes.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Dave could do it if he wanted to...Trim the fins, set the CNC machine to cut away some of the case for less wall thickness, drill a few dimples in places...All it would take is a phone call to the machine shop, it's right there in Tucson...The old saying is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"..
He already has the best selling line of engines in the U.S. with 5000 (more or less) sold and no sign of lessening demand...You ain't seen nothin' yet....

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Sounds good RCIGN1,, It will happen eventually.

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

This is a fun little thread . .so glad to see that it is staying friendly

If I may put in my little bit, since I seemd to miss the beginning posts, attached is a pic of my two 40% Composite-Arf Extra 330's, powered by BME110's. The plane on the left, with a full gas tank, grosses at 36 LBS!!!! (I'm REALLY trying to push the engines overall "weight limit" of capability with this plane. . . .), the one on the right is my notorious "28 lbs wonder", which really comes in at about 29.5 these days with a full load of gas, two extra elevator servos added, and an Emcotec powerbox (for evaluation purposes). The "heavy" plane makes a great IMAC and "Pattern" type plane, being very smooth, predictable mannerisms, and vertical till I run out of atmosphere, should I desire it. No, it's not a Moon Shot when you pull out of a torque roll, but neither is it struggling to hover and pull out of it (Call it 3/4 throttle hover with a 29-10 Mejzlik bolted on). The "Light" plane is simply silly in how it performs, and I've NEVER seen another 40% turn as hard or change directions as crisply and decisively as this one does, all without tip-stalling, losing "energy" (if you keep on the gas) pr getting out of shape. Truly a remarkable flying plane, and it flies Pattern stuff as well as the heavier plane.

NO. .they are NOT tail heavy. NO, they do NOT overheat. . ever, even when turning a 29-10 Mejzlik or 29-10 Biela CF wide-blade prop and doing 3D, hovering, and flipping around at zero airspeed for long periods of time. Yes, the powerplants are utterly reliable, and I have not touched the mixture needles in months, they start easily every time, idle as well as you could want, have instant throttle response, and just keep on running as well as the day I received them. I have about 200+ flights on one engine, and about 100 on the other (and another 50 or so on my "106" )

The DA is a good engine, nothing lost there, but it just can't compare with 6900+ rpm on a Mejzlik 28-10 from my BME110's, or the 29-10 Mejzlik in the 6400 rpm range. I have yet to see anyone even consider putting the DA100 onto a 40% Composite Arf Extra (Though Dave Von Linsowe did it on a G-202 that was the same size as a 36% Extra), and you'd think with all the hype that the 3W 106 is getting there would be more guys putting THAT motor onto the 40% Extras. No one has done this with any other "100cc class" engines except with the BME110. I think that speaks volumes about the engine, its capability, and how highly it really is regarded by it's owners.

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

Just like to add that this Sunday I'm going to be flying both of my planes at the field, and will have a digital camcorder on hand. I'm going to get some video of them, and need a place to FTP upload the files. Anyone have any spare space I can send these to? I figure on getting about 45 seconds-1 minute of MPG, or as many as 5-6 minutes of WMV of each plane, if I can find a place to upload the files to.

TIA

Crash90

My Feedback: (17)

Just following the thread.

cygnet

My Feedback: (33)

I would like to know how smooth the 110 is, This engine seems to be a great value for the power to weight but the only BME engines that I have seen run are the 102's and a three leged washing machine would be smooth compaired to the 102

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

I have owned BMEs and DAs and both are fine engines-- seems like a win/win either way. However I would like to comment on the 1/2 to 3/4 throttle comments. Power and throttle are set up on performance values and connot be equated to a transformer's stick position. In other words, if your engine has a max RPM of 6600 RPM and you are hovering at 1/2 throttle that means that you are at 3300 RPM. From what I have seen, almost ALL of the throttle sticks are NOT linear to RPM values. IN FACT-- that is why high dollar transmitters have features to make the throttle control more "true" (shall we say) to the power curve.

TRANSLATION: When somebody says they hover at 1/4 throttle-- their stick may be at 1/4 open-- but the engine is putting out a lot more.


OK-- I am getting off my soap box now.

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

Cygnet. . "Smooth" is a matter of adjusting the needles and how heavy of a propeller you are turning. You can 'tweak' just about any engine to run smoothly at idle, if it is well broken in and has little internal friction. Adding a really heavy propeller, to act as a flywheel, will help even more. I'll just say this, with any prop I want to run on my planes, from a 28-10 Menz (lightest weight) to my heavyweight 29-10 Biela, at a 1200-1300 rpm idle the power pulses are minimal and very acceptable. Power pulsing is the main source of "Vibration" under 2000 rpm, and is not really a vibration at all, but a hard hit against the motorbox by the engines power pulse that twists the airframe and makes it react. Every engine does this, and it's a matter of tuning the carburetor and adjusting the timing to get it as smooth as possible, if that is what you truly desire.

What I'd rather see is an engine that has instantaneous throttle response, from 1 click off idle to full throttle without any hiccups, burps, or burbling. I get that with my BME's, even with a canister style exhaust system (note, this is NOT a tuned exhaust). The other kinds of vibrations associated with engines, such as harmonics and actual out-of-balance parts or a design that does not do enough to cancel the internal weights of the engines compnents, are rarelyfound today, except in BIG singles. Every flat-twin out there has a self-cancelling crankshaft design, and none of them have undue vibration. The true definition of "Vibration" therefore, just does not exist inside the engiens that are produced today, no matter who is making them.

Is the BME "smooth" in transition? Adjust the needles properly on the carburetor and it will be. Get them off by 1/4 turn, however, and things get out of sorts very quickly. Is there any undue vibration (true vibration) associated with the engine? None that I've ever experienced. With over 100 hours of 110 running behind me now, I can;t recall a single incident where the engine seemed unduly rough or did not run smoothly and properly. That's all I can say about it.

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

Perhaps all this is true.


But I still TRUST DA more than any other company, period.

Argue that Kris.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I guess that is a three legged washing machine that is very well balnced and smooth, since all the BMEs I have seen run very smooth. (have ever seen anything on three legs that rocked?)

rmh

My goodness!
On the power to weight side of things - here is somthing you may like
A custom built CAP-40% I designed and Bjorn Lehnardt finished
It weighs under 35 lbs - with full length 10/80 KS tuned pipes and a ZDZ160 -
the power to weight is --more than adequate.
Zippy------------

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

Uh, Backafter30, why are you trying to turn this into an "argument"?

This is a discussion, plain and simple. If you wish to argue, please start your own thread titled "A thread for people who want to argue about DA vs. BME vs. 3W" and invite people to drop in and argue with you.

I don't think anyone here has made a single disparaging comment concerning the DA line of engines, and going back over the series of posts from some 10-12 people, it's quite obvious that except for a couple of jabs at BME (3-legged washing machine??? oh PUHLEASE), no one really has anything bad to say about ANY engine company out there. The BME110 is, to state it bluntly, the lightest and most powerful engine in it's class. It's that simple. Running characteristics are very good, and I have absolutely no complaints concerning service or contact problems with BME. To say that I am highly satisfied with both the product, and BME as a company, is very accurate. I have had the same kind of service and contactibility from DA, as well as Gerhard at 3W (Aircraft International). The way modellers have given feedback to these three companies, and they have responded, is something to be applauded.

Things are only going to get better for us as long as the RC engine manufacturers continue to upgrade and re-engineer their products with our satisfaction and loyalty in mind. BME just happens to have the Biggest dog in the pack of "100cc" engines at the moment.

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

I'd be proud as punch to own a BME 110, no foolin'.
Since I'm commited to the 50CC class bird for the time being, it will be some time before I get to the 100 class engine, I'm afraid.

No doubt I will however, and as engines change seemingly before your eyes, things may be different in a year or two...
Yaa think?

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

I'd say your Cap would finish a close 2nd to my 28 lbs Extra in a vertical drag race, Dick, and I seriously doubt it could out-turn it or perform super-tight maneuvers as well. Power-weight may be good. . but ounces/sq-ft of wing loading count for a lot more than mere 1/16 mile acceleration contests.

You can have the Hemi fueler funny car, I'll take the Group C Porsche, Dick. We'll race 1/4 mile. . 1/8 mile straight ahead, do a 180 degree turn and 1/8 mile back down the opposite lane. I'll give you 5 car lengths at the start.

After all, it's the total package that counts.

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

Perhaps Keith could slide you a brand new 55 Xtreme next April 1st BackAfter30

rmh

I wasn't trying to make you feel it was a contest with your setup Kris - as for the drag race - - as long as you feel good about your setup -it's fine with me -
For a vertical drag race - I will go with my ZDZ40 powerd 11 lb model - as for tight turns -- I once found slash marks in my rudder - turned out it was my prop!
First liar hasn't a chance---

Kris^

My Feedback: (1)

That's okay, Dick, I once did a "Blender" so hard with this plane that the thunderclap was heard for miles! the "Pilot" wears a helmet so that his hair will stay intact on negative G maneuvers, and the landing gear keeps punching out the bottom of the plane on hard pulls!

Well. . .almost.

The 150-160cc stuff just does not get my juices going any more, Dick. . all that power and nowhere to go with it. Nice Cap, though . .about right where the weight should be on a plane that size with one of those heavier "big" motor setups in it, though I've seen a couple of the TBM 42% 260's a tick lighter. It takes dedication to make them come in at that weight. Congrats on a nice effort ! (I bet a BME on the nose would make it fly better, though. )

rmh

It is a blast --
It's fun to see the plane actually accelerate - hard - on up lines --
I did my 40 at 11 lbs - just to see the result of really light (19 oz ft ) and lots of thrust.
New ballgame !
My little 13 oz foam model has a HiMax that pulls -- 16 amps and this thing REALLY accelerates.
These things are unreal-
I am now going for a whole different power to weight on my newest model -- a Cassut
honest -

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

anyone know about how close that new bme 55 is?