Nomadio

SgtStop:
Power for the controller is supplied by a pack of 8 NiCds that are included with an external charger. This was devised to let you continue racing using a spare pack or even off the shelf regular AAs in a pinch. I do not know the recharge time for the NiCds.

Have your shop send an email to [email protected] saying they want to be notified when our distribution plans are finalized. Then they will get an email in a few weeks that will tell them where to order.

We recognize that Sensor does sound too good to be true so our primary focus at this point is making sure that your OOBE (out of the box experience) matches the promise of the technology.

FHM101:
We are aware of this and have contacted ROAR for a ruling on how they would like us to lock out telemetry for sanctioned racing. Our idea is to have an easily verifiable "Blind Race" mode that the race director could check (just like he checks crystals now). I'm waiting to hear from the ROAR tech people right now. Note that we don't expect to get ROAR certified until after we've been shipping for a few months.

Tigger N. Bennie

Can you provide a link to this street price? I own a T3PK and I would like to see how you practically doubled the selling price of a T3PK sold at the local hobby shops.

I was at RCX and I saw your booth across from the Kyosho displays and RCP Tracks where I was racing. And although you probably consider Kyosho Mini-Z's cheap based on your post (despite how much some people actually spend on some Mini-Zs), will the "Sensor System" work with very small AM R/C cars--I use the Futaba T3PK with my Mini-Zs (as well as a 1:5 scale and several other R/Cs). Also, how much faster is the signal than Futaba's HRS mode and how difficult will it be to "set" digital servos with the "SS" or will they just burn out digital servos that much faster because of your system?

So how are these "special codes" different from coded FM signals sent by other transmitters?

BTW, so what's with "waiting for plastic from china"?

fhm101

While ROAR approval is no biggie to me since i race in a class that's as yet not ROAR scantioned, their approval would be important since i feel that initial support for your product(s) will come from the hardcore racer segment of the hobby and ROAR approval will be important to most of these folks.

Nomadio

Tigger N Bennie,
re: street price vs list price

My quote refers to list prices and you are referring to street prices. It doesn't matter really as long as we both talk about the same thing. Here's a street price example of a Futaba 3PK. These prices are current, from the Tower Hobbies web site. Keep in mind that we're comparing a full system, including synthesized radio and receiver, nicd batteries and charger. You get a full system with the Sensor, so we should compare a full system for Futaba.

Top of the line, backlit, synthesized Futaba 3PK system, including NiCd batteries and charger
Item Description Sell Price @ Tower Hobbies Implied List Price
LXCML5 Futaba 3PK 3-Channel PCM/No Servos 329.99 $399.99
LXGCY6 Futaba Synthesized 3-Channel Receiver 75MHz 3PK 119.99 $145.44
LXGCY9 Futaba PK-FSM75 3PK Synthesized Transmitter Module 89.99 $109.08

539.97 $654.51

You were right - I did not know that the 3PK included the nicd and charger so they were not included in this comparison. Let's look at an Airtronics M8 ...

LXFAH1 Airtronics M8 3-Channel FM Light Novak 419.99 $499.99
LX0851 Airtronics Transmitter NiCd Battery Stylus M8 57.99 $69.04
LXLX84 Airtronics Dual Charger 110V 75mAh Z 21.99 $26.18

499.97 $595.20


So while it's true you paid about $300 for the controller itself, you already had all the other stuff you needed. If you factor in that Sensor includes the temp, voltage, and speed sensors, at $649 list it's actually a pretty good deal!

re:Mini-Z's - If the receiver form factor is the same as larger RC cars, I don't see why Sensor wouldn't work. We've never tested it with Mini-Zs so I can't say definitely that it will.

re:Futaba's HRS mode. Interesting you should ask. We couldn't find anyplace where Futaba says exactly how fast it is .. they tell you it's twice as fast but they don't say what it's twice as fast as .. Kind of like "New - Improved". We refresh at 50hz, so every 20 milliseconds everything is updated. I don't have a definitive answer on digital servos but for now I would say that Sensor is not designed to work with them. We want it to be a drop-in for the bulk of drivers who use good old regular servos.

re:special codes. Without getting too technical, there's a big serial number in each message and each receiver throws away anything that doesn't have its serial number. That's why you have to initialize your system when you first set it up by pressing a button on the car and the controller at the same time. They "learn" each others serial number. Each time you add a car to your system, you add it to the controller by doing the same thing.

fhm101:
We agree. The pro racers will really benefit from Sensor tech so we want them to be able to use it as soon as possible. Also want to be accepted by the governing bodies to show that our thing is worthy of consideration after all these years of crystal radios with all their problems.

Tigger N. Bennie

The T3PK (Magnum Version) also includes "both" a receiver and module in addition to the Ni-Cd and charger. Street price is $329.00. It's too bad that your radio doesn't appear to work with Mini-Zs and appears to be targeted toward "regular servos". The special coding simply explained reminds me of a transponder. By the way, how can your company and the radio both target "regulars" and "pro racers" if it is not geared towards digital servos unless of course, both don't use digital servos.

crazy_azz_mat

that may just be me but the radio looks alittle toyish no?

agjell

Tigger N. Bennie: the Sensor includes a lot of features that any other top level radio cant compete against. you just have to face that it will be a bit more expensive, you get what you pay for right? i do agree with you about the digital servos though.

crazy_azz_mat

i think that they will eventually have some way of incorporating the digital servos bc they are going to start to notice that its pretty much a nessicesty to have

Tigger N. Bennie

I read the posts and I realize that this new radio currently appears to be more expensive; however, it is another thing to inflate the price of another radio in an attempt to decrease the price difference of some other radio transmitter. Even if the new transmitter system has more features than the T3PK, which I own, to me it doesn't justify the 2x price if I am restricted to analog servos and can't run my Mini-Zs. Consequently, it doesn't appear to be just a "drop in" system if I can't use my system.

fhm101

Thanks again for the reply. I've got to say the more i think about this the more interested i get. Will your radio be able to capture sensor data and modify and/or override servo control to correct what it might be getting from the sensor in real time? Even being able to have your radio tell you when you are getting excessive clutch slippage would be real nice. Not to mention being able to save letting it go too long and welding a set of inner bearing races to the crankshaft. Do you have any published mounting and application specs/photos for your sensors yet?

crazy_azz_mat

i think that this is going to be more or less like a stepping stone for the new innovations to rc...this may not be the one that everyone is looking for just yet...but wait and eventually these things will be improved....whether or not from Nomadio

Nomadio

FHM: re:Mounting specs ..

Whew! You are a little early for that! That type of detailed information will become available when Sensor ships.

Tigger: re:digital servos

Our research indicates that digital servos are still only a small percent of the market. If you have other information, please share it. I agree with crazy_azz_matt in that we will certainly be supporting digital servos at some point in the future - I'm only talking about our initial ship group. You didn't mention what the space limitations were for your Mini-Zs. Are there special crystal receivers for Mini-Z?

Also on your T3PK - To be a fair comparison, it should be a synthesized radio, not a crystal radio, which is why I included the synth module and synth RX in my comparison. I stand by my statement that if you compare apples to apples, Sensor system is priced roughly the same as top of the line 3CH synthesized surface radios.

Roy
Nomadio

Tigger N. Bennie

Regarding a Mini-Z, the crystal fits into the R/C unit which is basically a small-flat PC board that connects to the antenna, servo, batteries, and so on. To help give you a better understanding of the scale size I have uploaded a photo of my Kyosho F1 with a transponder on top of an FG F1--the crystal is inserted under the body about where the driver is on the body.

Deandome

My Feedback: (1)

I certainly don't have stats, but this is gonna be a problem!!

Maybe digital servos are a small percentage in general, but among the type of buyers who are gonna shell out $500 on a new radio (a risk with a new company, no matter how you slice it), that percentage is gonna be a LOT higher!!!

People who buy your radio will a) have lots of $$$ (and be willing to gamble it on a company that COULD disappear in 3-10 years down the road!!) and b) want the BEST. Ergo, they will have already put digital servos in their vehicles. And if & when you come out with an airplane/helo version, that will be a HUGE factor!!!

I only have one digital servo in my 2 vehicles (T-Maxx & Mini-T), but I gotta say, I would not buy a radio that would force me to get rid of my 200 oz digital steering servo!! And "supporting digital servos at some point in the future" isn't gonna cut it! Do you mean/think the first generation Sensors can be made to work with digi-servos RETROACTIVELY, or are you suggesting that only FUTURE VERSIONS of the radio will be compatible?

Dean

Nomadio

Deandome, Tigger

Let me check into it and I will get back on this. To be honest, you guys are the first to have asked about digital servos in our four focus groups (over 100 weekend bashers and racers in 3 states) and RCX (who knows how many).

I agree with you that it certainly sounds like our radio should be supporting the latest/greatest.

Let me check it out with the tech people and I will respond with more clarity on exactly what we will be doing here.

Roy
Nomadio

Chase023

What other forums do you have threads going??

Nomadio

Tigger,Deandome reigital Servos
The tech guys are continuing to look at it. We've had to order a couple of Futaba digital servos to be absolutely sure but preliminary response was that it should be an easy software change in the transciever to work with digital servos. I will post the official definitive answer when the testing has been done.

I'd like to point out that uniquely to RC radios, Sensor is "smart" - it has a programmable CPU in the controller and the transciever so this type of update can be done and posted on our website for all owners to benefit from. When was the last time anybody updated software on a crystal radio? This is the basis of our catchphrase - "Drive Smarter"

Chase023,
We are here on RCUniverse, Buggy-SportInfo, MonsterGT, radiocontrolzone, rcnitrotalk. There are about 20 other forums on the net that I'm monitoring but have not joined yet.

Tigger N. Bennie

Although I have yet to confirm this I have read rumor that Futaba has updated their software and/or is going to update the software. Regarding, updating "your" software it is my opinion that it "should" already be updated if it is a new transmitter. If not, to me that is like purchasing a computer with W98 in it instead of WXP though the market technology is WXP.

In addition, I'd still like to know if the Nomadio system is going to work with Kyosho Mini-Zs. If not, I won't bother to keep an eye on this thread and I will forward your reply to other Mini-Z owners I know who are wondering about your system.

Nomadio

TiggerNBennie,
I don't understand the point of your last post. You read a rumor that Futaba has updated their software.. To do what? Your opinion is that Nomadio should already be updated - to do what? I don't understand the reference to Windows 98 vs. XP in this context either - please explain.

My original post was intended to point out that our product is software based. Both the controller and the transciever have a microcontroller brain, flash ram and a PC link. It CAN be updated. To my knowledge, none of the other high end RC controllers have any "brains on board" beyond their factory defined functions. This was the point I was making.

I am waiting to get the final size of the receiver box which I will pass along to you and then you can tell me if it will fit in a Mini-Z. I asked you for the dimensions before and I don't think you responded. The good news is that I heard that the transciever board has turned out smaller than expected so we might be able to shink the plastic case even further.

Roy
Nomadio

Tigger N. Bennie

Perhaps, you misunderstood my post but my point was simple. If Windows XP is on the market now, I don't want to purchase Windows 98. So if Radio X+Y Functions are on the market now, I don't want to purchase Radio X or Radio X-1. Another way of putting it is that since you have been unable to confirm that the Nomadio works either with digital servos or with Mini-Zs--that's like a Radio X-2 in my book, no pluses, only minuses. Granted, some people may not care if the Nomadio works with digital servos or Mini-Zs; however, if I plan to dump a Futaba T3PK for a more expensive radio, it will work with digital servos and Mini-Zs if I continue on the track I have been on, which has not been that uncommon from the people I've encountered in Mini-Z racing. By that I mean, most if not all of them have started in other forms of R/C and have either switched completely to Mini-Zs or use Mini-Zs to improve and/or maintain their racing skills. Myself, I own 19 R/C cars. Gas/Oil, Nitro, Electric, Off road, On road, whatever--I own one.

Regarding the dimensions of the Mini-Z, didn't you see that yellow Kyosho Mini-Z sitting on top of that red F1 FG in the picture above? Here is post 38 again:

If you want, I can remove the body and take a photo of the Kyosho Mini-Z-F1. However, if your company is going to target Mini-Z owners like Futaba, Airtronics, and KO Propo, I would have hoped that at least one company representative would have owned a Mini-Z by now, especially since the Nomadio booth was just across from the Kyosho booth at RCX.

Nomadio

Tigger,
OK, I understand your post now. You're only interested if we can fit into a Mini-Z and support digital servos. I am working on answers to both those issues and will post when I get the definitive answer. It would help with issue #1 if you could get a ruler and measure the size of the place where your receiver goes in your Mini-z - the pictures do not help me much.

We have ordered some Futaba digital servos and will be testing with them, then I will have the answer on that.

Thanks

Roy
Nomadio

Tigger N. Bennie

sgtstop

Frankly, I'm thinking who cares if this fits in the mini-whatever. The fact that NEW TECHNOLOGY is out there, and represents the first signifigant breakthrough in tuning and control of one's hobby is VERY important to our hobby. Yeah, sure... Someone else MIGHT have done this a few months or years down the road, but the point remains the same: More will benefit from this than not.

Nomadio: I'll be on board when this product hits the shelf. I have already emailed the link to this post to several friends that are of the same opinion as me... This is going to be a major benefit to our hobby.

Tigger: PLEASE see this for what it is. I'm sure that by the time you pony up for this radio it will have evolved through R & D a few times. This company is known rather well in certain circles to be "worth the wait" if you aren't happy with it. Obviously, their R/C vehicles for our military are satisfactory for them, so their reputation is established, IMHO. Mil-Spec nubers aren't handed out like SSN's and drivers licenses in California, ya know!


Dave

slago

At the risk of getting my head bitten off by you, I have to ask, "What is different about the receiver/electronics onboard the Mini-Z than from all other RC cars?" Additionally, how has Futaba, Airtronics, and KO Propo targeted Mini-Z owners? How is it that their radios "Work" for the Mini-Z?

Tigger N. Bennie

If that is an attempt to be comforting, it's not. I spent time on active military. And, the DARPA challenge was what? 7 miles at most. Quite frankly, just because the government continues to waste taxpayer dollars, doesn't mean I will waste my money on a product that does not support digital servos or Mini-Zs. The freaking semi-conductor was invented decades ago, but that also doesn't mean I rushed out to purchase the first available PC. That's my opinon and my current stand. You don't have to like it nor agree with it, but the bottom line is that I can currently run the 19 R/C cars I currently own with a Futaba T3PK whether or not they have digital servos and whether or not there is a combined speed control receiver unit or not.

Look at the photos and notice where the crystal is inserted. There is a combined speed control/receiver unit (a Losi Mini-T also has this type of set-up). And if you look at Mini-Z somtime, you will see two names: Kyosho and KO PROPO. The radios I mentioned also have "AM Conversion Modules" (Futaba T3PK) or may even actually call it a "Mini-Z-Racer Module" (KO PROPO). Simply put, they are actually AM/FM radios or if like the T3PK, a AM/PPM/PCM/HRS radio. Below are links to KO Propo and the Mini-Z-Racer Module:

http://www.kopropo.com/home.htm
http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro....1053.56.0.0.0