jettset99

My Feedback: (7)

I would like to wish well all involved in this sad accident, and sad as this may be lets all take extra meassures to keep safe!!! the same can happen to a Jet, but I fear a prop much worse. We at are field dont fly when Giant scale birds are in the air because wile flying a Jet you will not be able to look around due to the high concentration needed, and sometimes you cant hear your turbine over the prop noise, we always fly with a spotter,and as per AMA set radio failsafe to Engine off,I think its time for the AMA to start thinking of some type of waiver for these large aircraft, to keep everone safe! Paul AJUSA

air mail rcu

"Lets use common sense and look out for each other. If we keep getting hit with accidents and fruitcakes trying to take out the President of the US with RC planes, we will no longer have a hobby. "

Common sense is not so common. When you say you tell your son to watch for somebody new or somebody hotdogging it and to run if the plane is out of control. Run where? He might run into the plane. How do you run from a object going 100 mph. What about the people who are not new or hotdogging it does your son watchout for them?

I am very sorry to hear about this tragic accident I hope everyone recovers. We need to rethink this explosion in Giant RC Aircraft and 200 plus mph Jets.We have one Jet at our club and when it flys we all stand around and watch. Its not going anywhere near 200 mph. There is no way you are going to get out of its way if its out of control.

Skymac

My Feedback: (8)

Be it a 40 sized sport plane or a 45% aerobatic aircraft to a jet, when they hit you, there gonna mess something up, and thats a risk we all take. But people flying the upper end in r/c airplanes should have to go thru the process of flying them just as jet guys do, simple as that. Other than my .02 cents I wish him a get well soon.

J. Campbell

My Feedback: (31)

This guy was probably a seasoned pilot and this was an accident. However the chance for fatal accidents has gotten higer in recent years because of the migration to larger aircraft, These things are 120 inches across with a 10lb gas engine on the front swinging a carbon fiber lawnmower blade. Same with helis, larger machines with carbon blades are the norm.

Jets, I dont know, jets always went 150 to 200. The fact of the waiver i think is for fire and pit saftey more than flying, but the poster has a point, To get a turbine jet in the air you need a waiver, to get a giant scale racer, warbird or aero plane all you need is money, and believe me money and common sense DONT come hand in hand.

This is a tragic accident, could have been worse, dont want any Knee-jerk ama bans to come down but they do need to think about this subject and others. Russ

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

Failsafe is a precaution, but it's not a guarantee, I do know people that believe if they are using failsafe they are protected in many ways. Not the case, I've seen airplanes failsafe in attitudes where the failsafe created more of a problem than if it wasn't on. That's not to say it shouldn't be used, mine is set to shut down my turbine.

Anyway, not that it matters now, I just hope for a fast recovery and one that isn't crippling to him forever

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

It certainly matters for the next time.

Gordon

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Hmmmmm!!!!!!.....where did you get that information from?

Skymac

My Feedback: (8)

Those are the kinds of post that need to be edited or deleted off the forum...

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Not_...2112114/tm.htm

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Hmmmmm!!!!. Could that be the reason why they had RF problems in the state of OH this weekend because "One Papa" was visiting the state?

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Based on the recent removal of threads from the jet forum that actually had something to do with Jets, I'm publically protesting this thread based on the fact that it has nothing to do with Jets and I believe it's an unfair move by Ben to have moved the other post out of the jets forum and left this one here.

Carry on,

Sean

Skymac

My Feedback: (8)

even though we have disagreed on many things sean, Im with you on this one

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
I just posted the letter on the Giant Scale forum, seems like it belongs there, but IMO safety is an issue for ALL modelers and incidents like this should be brought to everyone's attention.
BRG,
Jon

BiplaneCrasher

Airmail, I am not rying to start trouble, but heli pilots, myself included know that when the heli lifts off it could land in somebodys' lap sitting in a lawn chair. I am not going to bring this argument up. again. They are simply dangerous, we all know that. We son normally stands by a tree, picnic table or by the truck. I even find "a way out" just in case. The AMA did not save this fellas injuries by standing in front of this plane did they? So you have to look out for yourself. The AMA can only set parameters. This goes bak to the ole "These one in every club" conversation.

Until they have "Anti Crap Happening Insurance", this is how it will be. Like I wrote above our landlord does not allow the netting due to it being an active farm land. So protecting ourselves is a prioity. If you felt singled out I'm sorry.

I am sorry this accident happened and hope something positve comes out of it instead of punishing the sport by limiting the tools of the trade. A certification is something I would favor and support for larger aircraft 51cc and above. Any thing more than that I am mixed on. A spotter should always be present. I don't think money had anything to do with the pilot's ignorence if any. From what I have read, it can't be more than an accident. And we are all trying to find blame somewhere when that will not change anything.

Hindsight in just that....hindsight, you can't change it.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

And just so everyone knows, unless I know you personally and have seen you at jet meets and acknowledged you and had conversations with you, it is very rare that I keep tabs on who agrees or disagrees with me. I post my opinion in these forums only. Sometimes that opinion is fact, and sometimes it's like a bung hole, everyone has one. Justin, if I had to name one difference of opinion I've had with you in another thread with a gun to my head, I wouldn't be able to do it. I rarely read "who posts what". I just respond to what's there to respond to. Sorry if this disappoints you or anyone else.

While my opinion of safety is that it's the most important part of model aviation, I don't see in the "RCU Rules" where a safety issue overrides RCU policy. This is another huge disappointment to me in the standards used by RCU moderators. And for the purposes of this post and this thread, to me it's a moderator regardless of whether I know the moderator have agreed or disagreed with before or not.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

And by the way, those that know me well, know that I was struck in teh back of the head by a 30 sized Raptor Helicopter, and had a hospital visit, many stiches etc, so don't think for a second that I don't sympathize with the person struck. I do.

Skymac

My Feedback: (8)

I agree with you once more, btw, it don't hurt my feelings that you don't remember assocations, lol

patf

My Feedback: (4)

disagree with you sean. where were you flying jets this weekend? a big bird event! both jet and big bird pilots fly high-end, high risk aircraft. we as jet pilots have been voicing our opinion against the AMA's rules for us for years, many have pointed directly at the potential for this type of incident with the larger gassers as some kind of "justification" for not pressing the rules on us. but it will be an interesting watch on how the ama reacts on this. On the surface, I do not think any of the jet related rules would have affected the outcome of this unfortunate incident. without the facts on the table the "armchair" investigating will only lead in circles. heaven forbid there was a tail touch involved. until then I suggest taking the post as i believe vincent intended it, as a "heads up", and keep the suffering of the injured pilot in mind.

please don't drag that soap opera into other threads...

MAX EFFFORT

failsafe settings will shut off engines but the speed and trajectory are still the big problem. ...wouldn,t a parachute popping along with engine shut down be the only real way to reduce the hazards of a loss of control problem ?.there are hi tech chutes for large ,heavy,very fast rockets out there that could be made to work for us....failsafe engine shut down ,on jets anyway,is mainly there to reduce the fire hazard,,,am i right?... thats good to not have a fire but i think the real danger is not so much fire, but impact to human bodies by a machine going very fast ... in my opinion, a failsafe parachute along with engine shutdown is the only logical way to solve this dilemma.....if i,m wrong, let me hear a better idea...it could work for large or small prop r/c a/c as well as jets... helis,, sorry your on your own, but someone flying helis could figure something out for them too i bet.... pm,s welcome or search for FAILSAFE CHUTE thread. ideas and comments pro or con welcome.

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Pat F. wrote:

<<until then I suggest taking the post as i believe vincent intended it, as a "heads up", and keep the suffering of the injured pilot in mind>>

Hi Pat,
Good post, my intentions exactly on this thread, sorry it went off in the wrong direction. Recently my friends lost steering during his take off run at our field. His Hot Spot ended up in the safety net and was badly damaged. We discussed at length what "could" have happed if the netting was not there.No time for the rudder to kick in at all, this big plane accident is similar in that respect but he ended up in the pits.
V..

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Unfortunately and sadly, I expect nothing will change. Look at the flap the AMA received over rule #9. I think it will be up to the individual clubs to shut down what they perceive to be unsafe.

fz1

I was almost in wakeman on saturday and got passed by the highway patrol around 12:00. That must have been where they were going. I never saw anything when I went through wakeman. Sorry to hear it.

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

I agree totally, for next time absolutely, I just meant beyond this post, my condolences.

When I was about 5 years old I got hit in the head with the floats of a deadstick Kadet at a float fly. Failsafe wouldn't have saved that one, it was a case of a deadstick airplane in a bad situation. This is a perfect example of where a failsafe can actually be a downside, lets say it was failsafe that shut that engine down, maybe if he still had power he would have been able to keep the airplane high enough to not hit me in the head. Maybe not, I'm just saying failsafe is not the all end all answer.

This hobby is like anything else in this world. If you decide to live life outside of a plastic bubble you take risks, be it riding a bicycle, driving a car, skydiving, or flying model airplanes, there are inherent risks associated with every aspect of life. This is an unfortunate accident, but there is nothing to prove that had failsafe been set up on this model that it would have prevented the accident.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Indeed ... but if you were going to be hit in the head by an aircraft, would you rather it's engine still be running or not ?

We can dream up all sorts of weird scenarios in which a failsafe triggering engine kill at a certain time might conceivably cause someone to be hit - but has there ever been an example of it happening ? I can quote you examples of people being hit because of throttle hold being set on failsafe. In fact, in the British case that I quoted earlier, the coroner actually ruled that the choice of "throttle hold" was a contributory factor in Adam's death, and as a result the BMFA even went as far as to petition the radio manufacturers to have the default failsafe setting be something other than hold.

Even stretching belief to the point that we assume you could somehow prove that throttle-cut would cause as many people to be hit by deadstick aircrat, as throtttle hold would cause to be hit by aircraft that still have their engines running, the two major things that killing the throttle will do for you, is (a) reduce the inertia (and hence the killing power) of the model, and (b) make that rather dangerous meat cleaver stop rotating.

Perhaps one of the reasons I care about this a whole lot more than most people, is that I have personal experience of it. Several years ago, my wife was hit by an aircraft that had its failsafe set to throttle hold, which went into hold at full power. Following that incident, it took over 6 months for her to have a pain-free day. I simply don't see why more and more people must be injured and killed in order for more modellers to take their failsafe settings seriously.

Gordon

HotelSierra

My Feedback: (9)

This is terrible......Casey, you are in my prayers.