lloyd a

hi guy.s I bought one of these from the toronto shoe last year have no instructions just the plane doe's any one know where i can download them from. was thinking of a Tuarus 4.4 think thats to much?

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

[lloyd a hi guy.s I bought one of these from the toronto shoe last year have no instructions just the plane doe's any one know where i can download them from. was thinking of a Tuarus 4.4 think thats to much? ]

Did you mean the Taurus 4.2? If so it weighs in about 9 ounces more than the DA50. Mine balanced nicely with DA, Bisson Spinner 4 inch 4 ounces, 2000 nimh 6v and 1650 4.8 nimh on engine box along with the ignition. It balance 1/8 inch behind recommended CG. CG for this Extra is 6.65" behind leading edge at root. (center of the wing tube)So if you already have the engine it would work but probably be a bit overpowered and throttle management a must. I would make that engine box as strong as possible though.
There were no instructions with this plane (not in the two I got anyway) Looks like there wont be any customer service either. No spare parts, make em last


[mikekosatka I've been sitting on one of these EXTRAs for about six months....]

I have a Moki 2.1 and weighed it and the DA50 the same day. I cant find my notes but do remember that the moki was about 10 oz lighter when you throw in the mufflers and ignitions, battery..... So your challenge will be to get the weight as far forward as possible. Maybe large C size receiver battery and on the ignition and a smoke pump up in the engine box? How you gettin' 7 horsepower anyway, 30% nitro and a pipe?[&:] My DA50 straight out of the box turns a NX 23X8 at 6500 rpm - no break in yet, should go up a few hundred rpm more. The best I got out of the Moki was 7000 rpm on a 20x8 and pitts muffler. I do think that the Mark/Moki would fly this plane pretty well any way

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Flew 8 flights today on NX 22X8. Getting 7100 rpm and still going vertical at 1/4 take off throttle. After the flights the 2 - 2000 nimhs were just down to 6.4 volts, 1650 4.8 ignition nimh down to 5.1. Guess that this set up will be great for practice, 10-12 flights per day if I field charge my transmitter.

After a couple of tanks I tried somes walls on high rates. It is certainly better than any machine I have had before - they are nice and tight.

I didn'ty get to inverted harriers but the upright harrier had lots of wing rock......Does that mean still nose heavy? Inverted flight seemed to take more down elevator even though the prop change dropped me one ounce in the nose.

Ever seen the movie "Space Balls,"where "Dark Helmet" orderd the space ship to ----

"Ludricrus Speed" ... I tried high rates + full deflection aierlons + 1/2 throttle on staight and level]
and got the "Ludicrus Speed"on roll rates. Twas so blindingly fast and amazing that I had to come right down and look at my empenages to see if they were intact.[X(]

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Hey Tourqued-Up thanks for the cooling tips.. I certainly vaired throttle settings mostly 1/2 to 0 throttle with a few bursts of full on extended uplines but each time I came in for fuel...................
only getting about 11 minutes on 3/4 of a 16 oz tank right now.......... but each time I brought her hin for refuel the head and fins were hot but cooled right off. I have no futher fears of overheating.

I am getting a lot of 1/4 throttle krackle (popping noise) and when I slowly advance the throttle on level flight I get a surge of power on the last click and think I am pretty rich on low end. Top end is a stump puller.[sm=punching.gif]

My question for help from the forum is if I were to start leaning the bottom end do I also need to open the top end or leave it and look for indications? It is a pain in the butt to ''off'' the cowl at the flying feild so I though I would make a conservative adjustment and fly a group of flights then do it more if necessary.

Should I lean the low 1/8 of a turn and go fly or change the top end/low end more/less.

Got a cool flying strip 4 minutes from the house. I put the plane on the back of my Ford Ranger and let the wings hang out. Get lots of funny looks as I go (max speed 30mph) down the road. The problem is that when I get there I have a 1/8 mile walk/drag to the runway with a plane on the rope and a tool/fuel cart on wheels out front.

The smile is getting pretty big.........

mikekosatka

My Feedback: (7)

[

[mikekosatka I've been sitting on one of these EXTRAs for about six months....]

How you gettin' 7 horsepower anyway, 30% nitro and a pipe?[&:] My DA50 straight out of the box turns a NX 23X8 at 6500 rpm - no break in yet, should go up a few hundred rpm more. The best I got out of the Moki was 7000 rpm on a 20x8 and pitts muffler. I do think that the Mark/Moki would fly this plane pretty well any way
[/quote]
Hey RDB127,
The 7 HP figure is from throwing numbers around wildly ... kinda like a manufacturer!!! What I should of said is "27- 28 pounds of thrust with 10%nitro, a MACS 4230 header and 1096 QUIET PIPE spinning a 20x6" and a hopeful AUW of 15.5- 16 lbs. As I intend to run a modified Pitts-style muffler and 5% nitro with a 22 inch prop, maybe 24-25 lbs. of thrust is more in line! Febuary flying should tell!! BTW did you use CA hinges or Dubro or what??
Mike

Torqued-Up

My Feedback: (16)

The popping and crackling you're getting is the DA 4-stroking... Definitely rich on the bottom end... I've got three DA-50's and all three are set the same once broken in... 2 turns out on the top end and right at 1 turn out on the bottom end... I've got a 14 oz tank in all my 50cc planes and fly 14 minutes with 1/4 of a tank left... I fly mostly 3D so I'm not on the throttle that much... Mostly under half throttle with bursts of full throttle on uplines and radical manuevers...

I started leaning the bottom end on mine once I got a full gallon through the engine... I drilled a small hole in the port side of the cowl so I can slip a small flat-head screwdriver in to tune the needles... Hardly noticeable...

Here's the rpm numbers I'm getting on various props... I'm at sea level...

22X8 Bolly wood 7350 rpms
23X8 NX wood 6850 rpms
23X8 Mejzlik CF 6700 rpms

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Thanks torqued up! I should wait for the 1 gallon mark eh? Which prop do you prefer the most to use? One more question, when you go in with the low end how does it üsually"affect the high end?


mikekosatka - Ya know, I might have had my Moki 2.1 on this airplane as I first was going to use it on an Extreme Flight 87 inch Yak. I was talked out of it and bought the DA. When I got this ARF I decided to put the DA on it as it was sitting for 6 months already on the new warrantee. Research shows the HP numbers are similar but the gasser is like having a 350 HP Chevy big blick engine -vs- a 350 small block engine....more torque. The only bad thing is that for my next giant scale model I'll have to spend another 600+ bucks on another gasser as the DA will stay with this airframe.

I am not sure what the other guys are using for hinges but I used the CA hinges which were supplied, then I sealed the hinges with Clear Ultra-coat which helps a little in the strength department.

How you other Extra guys doing up the hinges?

What do I change for the wing rock in an upright Harrier?

lloyd a

what were some of your control throws for sarting with? and how did it handle at those

Torqued-Up

My Feedback: (16)

rdb127

I like the NX 23X8 the best on this airframe...

I use Robart hinge-points on all my airplanes, even profiles...

As far as wing-rock, move the weight as far back as you can stand it and just stay on top of the rock with ailerons...

lloyd

I set mine up with as much control throw as I can get... On this airframe, it's like 45 - 50 degrees on elevators & ailerons and as much as I can get on the rudder without binding on the elevators... Then I run 25% - 30% expo on all surfaces to soften it up around center...

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

For control throws I had triple rates available in my Futaba transmitter and have these throws;

Aierlon Low Rates 1 inch Expo 10%
Med Rates 2 inches Expo 60%
High Rates All you can get Expo 90% (looks like about 3.5+ inches travel each direction

These wing control surfaces are huge measuring 4 1/8 inch chord by 36 1/2 length.

Here is a photo of low and high rates

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Elevators are low rate 1 1/4 no expo
med rate 2 inch 20% expo
high 75% expo

Here is photo with elevators on high

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Rudder is
1 1/4 low rate 10% expo
2 1/2 med rate 45% expo
all you can get high rate 75% expo (looks like close to 4 inches travel)

With the Hitec 5995 I can't run out of rudder but the bevels are touching on the inside.

Full rudder

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

When setting up I activated the Ailevators. Never had this option before but like it. With neurtal elevator on the stick the elevators mimic the ailerons. When you have up or down input in the stick it reduces one elevator to allow the plane to turn more easily while retaining great elevator control.

Does anybody want to chime in on the goods or bad of using this on giant scale airpanes. I think it is a mode used mostly for gliders.

I usually take off with low rates until I warm myself up then more than half of the flying is done on the medium rates. With these rates/expos I personally get a consistent feel of the stick only with more kick on med rates. I think that my low rates would be good on IMAC type flying and the med rates suite me best. I will say one thing about high rates. I believe the airframe could be stressed too much with high deflection and high airspeed/throttle. It will wow the crowd with blinding roll rates. I brough it up to 1/3 throttle up high and hit full ailerons and it had to go round 3 or more times in a second[X(] Got a loud buffeting sound on wings which I guess was the slipstream... made me want to land and look the plane over.[sm=bananahead.gif]

The plane really is a big kite though

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Thanks Torqued. I will use my NX 23-8 after break in. I did manage to get 6500rpm with the 23-8 on the engine on my first two tanks, then I drilled and switched to the 22-8 NX and am getting 7200.

Still have to fiddle with the needles for midrage transition. I drilled a hole in side of cowl last time I flew then got out to the field and didnt have a long enough screwdriver[:@]

I did my plane with the CA hinges and sealed the controls on botttom with clear ultracoat. Wonder if they will be strong enough to last very long? I did the same thing on my 80 inch Aeroworks profile and broke a rudder hinge. (it broke where I didn't put the clear ultra coat, also it was close to the control horn)

Do you feel the robarts are being supported well enough by the wood in the wing? I am getting ready to start another one of these for my brother and now doubt using the CA hinges again?

Torqued-Up

My Feedback: (16)

I was afraid that there wasn't enough wood on the LE & TE of the surfaces to support a normal number of hinge points, so I added extra... 5 on each elevator, 6 on the rudder and 8 on each aileron... I've had bad luck with CA hinges... I tear them out very regularly... Now I don't even take the chance... It's a PITA to re-hinge a surface, so I use the robarts all the time... I haven't had any problems with anything coming loose this airplane and I jam the sticks pretty hard on her... I always use gorilla glue on hinges...

FreedomFlier

My Feedback: (8)

Thanks for the pictures!

I noticed that my horizontal stab tube is pretty sloppy. I also noticed that the horizontal stabilizer does not have any tabs on them??? [&:] A friend of mines does has tabs???

So, either I can make tabs, or glue it on. What are you all doing, and

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

[BTW Torued, thanks for the info on the hinges]

I think most people have just drilled the tail tube. Ther is a hardwood spot on the bottom of the horizontal stab at about 6 inches which will take a screw into the tail tube. I first got a hardwood dowl that would fit in the tail tube and pre drilled a hole in it that would hold the nut then (while out of the tail) installed the glued the wood dowl with the bolt set. After the exoxy had dried I took out the bolt then installed the tube and tightened it thru where it was previously lined up and drilled.
I put locktite on the threads, tightened, and a drop of clear silicone from the bolt to the washer. That way on prefilght when I find the bolt with dried silicone on it I can feel comfortable that it has not vibrated.
When doing the second half of the tail tube make sure you have some one hold it tight against the fuse when drilling the pilot hole thru the block into the metal tube. Then glue your wood and nut and do like the first side.

My tube had a little tiny bit of play as well. I used a thin wedge of metal (flat metal) on the one side which made it tight and aligned the stab with the wings perfectly.

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

I wonder though if one could make a template, say out of 1/16 aircraft grade epoxy to the stab and attach it to the fuse with blind nuts? Anybody ever do this type converstion or seen it in a thread?

There is a service hatch on th fuse side that one might gain acess. See photo in last post. I am looking at this for my second build on this plane for my brother as he will likely want to take off his tail more often. It would be faster since you wouldnt have to line up the tube and "find the nut" first which is why I just leave mine on.

It would be safe to say that this setup would put (I guess 2 oz) extra weight in the tail. My brother's FPE 3.2 weighs 10 oz more than my DA 50 so I would need to shift weight too.

Torqued-Up

My Feedback: (16)

Hmm, mine had two tabs on the root of each stab, pre-drilled with blind nuts installed in the fuse...

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Torqued...got a photo of your elevator tabs? Here is the second set for the second plane build which I started today.

BTW

I took photos of the individual items as they came out of the box. With FPE 3.2 and all servos less servo extensions and switches I got
16 lbs flat. I figure another 8 oz for 3 switches and servo extensions..........having said that I figure empty weight without fuel will be 17 lbs. 17.75 flying weight on an FPE 3.2

What other items can I address to lower weight without getting rid of my fancy vitrual cockpit and beautiful fiberglass spinner. I will be using 2 of the 6 v 1200 mah receiver batteries at 4.25 oz ea and one 1650 4 v for ign at 4 oz.

The wing tube weighs 7.75 oz
tail tube weighs 1.25
landing gear is 9 oz

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Anybody know where to get carbon fiber stuff for this plane?

[Wing tube is 35 7/8 inch X 1 inch OD best I can measure with tape]

[tail tube is 16 3/8 X 1/2 inch]

Gear is 8 inch at fuse bottom-- 1 5/8 wide at fuse 7/8 wide at shaft hole 18 inch overall wide 7 1/2 high

Torqued-Up

My Feedback: (16)

You might try www.troybuiltmodels.com for CF wing tube & stab tube...

As far as gear, I'm using Graphtec CF gear that is for the 87" EF Yak... Fits perfectly and gives you another 2" of ground clearance...

I'll try to get a digital picture of the stabs on my plane... The tabs are actually part of the root rib and are about 3/8" thick... No way to retrofit an existing stab to this spec, so IMHO the next best method would be to drill & tap the stab tube like you're doing now or to go to a screw on 90 degree bracket like on Cardens...

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

The Graph Tec #191 Colombo Anderson 27&31% gear was a perfect match. The factory aluminum gear weiged 9 oz and the Graph tecs were 7. I ojly saved 1 1/2 ounces but the gear is much sturdier. On mine I let it settle in from about 4-6 inches and spread the aluminum gear so it's the way to go.

BTW this is the second one now nearing a maiden flight this weekend over at my brothers.

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

Here is the setup on this one;

Engine First Place 3.2 with stock side exhaust 4 lb 4 oz engine complete with ignition
Hitec 5945 on all surfaces except 5955 on rudder
Hobbico 1650 NIMH 4.8 volt on ign (4 oz)
2X Hobbico 1200 NIMH 6 volt on receiver (4.25 oz ea)
Bisson 4 inch fiberglass spinner with lightened backplate (3.75 oz)
all linkage H9 that came with kit except rudder push tube.
16 oz fuel tank (came with kit)
Lite pilot 25% Pilot (2.5 oz)
Kregg Wright virtual cockpit (1 oz)
NX 22X8 Prop for break in (3.75 oz)
Graph tec carbon wing tube (4 oz - aluminum stock weighed 7.5 oz)
Graph tec carbon tail tube (.75 oz)
All extensions 22 ga Hobbico Pro
All switches Hobbico Heavy Duty gold plated


HERE IS THE TRIP...Zero fuel weight 16 lb 7.5 oz on a commercial certified gram scale. Can't believe it is 1/2 lb lighter than mine with the DA-50

Richard D Bahmann aka/Wrongway

My Feedback: (42)

I hope to get mine on a CF diet and change the 2-2000 NIMH out for 2-1200 and drop my 17 pounder down to 16 lb 6 oz once I get this one out of the garage. Having said that, it still flys amazingly light at 17 lb.

For comparison the DA-50 with 1 1/2 gallons through and some tweaking runs 7200 rpm static on the NX 22X8 prop.

The FPE 3.2 after 3 tankfulls runs the same prop at 6600 slightly rich. I think that the FPE will eventually pull within a couple hundred RPM of the DA. Still, I got an engine that weighs about 10 ounces more than the DA runnning a few hundered lower in RPM and a few bucks cheaper as well.