-SomeGuy-

Based on what im hearing from axial owners, IMO its the best 'bang for the buck' engine for the average rc owner. If you have more than average tuning skills then the sts is the best choice. I know i will be recommending axial to my friend who fried his sts in 1 gallon.

black mamba

They may look the same, internally at least, but this power graph shows that there is something more to the Axial that the eye can't see. It blows the K4.6 away. Look at that area under the power and torque curves that the Axial has compared to the K4.6. That's a difference the truck will "feel" for sure.

http://www.axialracing.com/details.p...imgID=2&type=2

Chronic

The results of a test such as this are as dependant on the tester as they are on the object being tested. All I have to see is that they used a different plug in the engines and I automatically know it's skewed. Stick the same plug, same fuel, and same head shims in each engine and then post the dyno results.

HerrSavage

Why don't you hear more positive stuff about K4.6's then?? Is it just cuz of the price(or marketing)?

Quite a few guys seem to rave about the power of the Axial(not only me...), but you just don't hear that about the K4.6. Can't just be the price, or marketing or a different plug...

I'm sure there are lots of other guys who - like me - started with the 25, then got an SS kit, and were really impressed with the new power. I've never run the K4.6 though..

P.Jr

THE AXIEL .28 IS IN MY FATHERS X1-CRT THAT MOTOR IS WICKED FAST AND HAS AWESOME TORQUE. I HAVE THE HELLFIRE W THE K4.6HO THATS ALMOST THE SAME EXACT MOTOR AS THE AXIEL.

Chronic

The K4.6 HO isn't the same. The HO is a three port and is set up quite differently. The normal K4.6 is the same as the Axial .28

I'm not out to downplay the Axial at all here, and I have no idea how the two engines would run side by side in out of the box condition. The Axial probably smokes the HPI engine.... but I do know that they are based on the same engine design. The sleeves have the same port configuration and lack of any secondary finishing work. The cranks look very similar, as do the rest of the parts... The Axial obviously makes more power, my question is WHY. Is it simply a plug--head shim--head button thing, or do the internal parts actually differ? Can someone simply change a shim or button and make their K4.6 match the output of the Axial?

supertib

Honestly Axial 28's dont make very much power.. neither do the K 4.6... In a Savage with a jacked up center of gravity everything looks fast and powerful... I mean a 24/7 pro will violently flip a Savage over on its lid effortlessly...And a 24/7 pro is extremely tame compred to the new generation of mills.

A very good freind of mine runs an Axial 28 in a Truggy, he raced all last season with the mill, On the track he races the Axial does pretty decent, as its a smaller tight track with a smaller straightaway... The Axial does decent right out of a corner as it has tractable tourque, but as soon as they hit the straights the Axial gets left in the dust... Even a box stock Mach 26 will outrun a Axial 28 in 100 feet.. but the Mach needs that 100' to do it, as well on the track the Mach got much hotter at that pace..... The Axial is a far cry from a high performance mill, it may look crazy in a Savage, but put it in a Truggy against some real motors and you'll see its not very powerful... We also raced the STS 28 on 20% against the Axial 28 on 30%, the STS temping at 210, the Axial at 270, both in LSP's ...the STS completely reems the Axial, not even close....both motors were also running a JP-2....give the STS a full tune and 30% and the carnge would be even worse.


the Axial mills and HPI 4.6 are so close its not even funny, just like a Mach 28 is a SH 28.. maybe slight differences, but primarily the same motor......

black mamba

Buy my K4.6 and do some experimentation!

jcam54

well guys sorry to agree. I raced a savage ss with a k4.6 and it was almost dead even...then again my truck is probably a pound or so heavyer with the flm tvps and bead lock rims and mulchers.

So I took supertibs advice I bought a sts d30m (should be the v2 version with the tighter pinch) and can't wait to get it and break it in. The axial 28 is going into my other savage for pure bashing fun.
Don't get me wrong I like the axial 28 but crave more power and I want to test my tuneing skills.

Who knows maybe I try to port the axial or is anyone willing to port it for me professionly...supertib maybe?

SAVAGEJIM

jcam54, where did you buy your version2 of the D30M? Would I have to order that from Texas? If there is a website, can you link it? This is the version of the D30M I am looking for and any help will be greatly appreciated.

SAVAGEJIM

To get back on topic, another thing I noticed about the Axial engine is that the crankshaft is machined differently. The Axial crank has its leading edge cut with a scoop so that it i not a broad flat face being forced theough the air. I bet the Axial crank also has a differnt induction timing profile than that of the K4.6.

supertib

timing is the same

SAVAGEJIM

Interesting...Based on the induction ports measurements I collected on the K4.6 block, a non-HO crankshaft, and an HO crankshaft, I calculated the K4.6's total induction timing is 187.75degrees. Assuming the Axial engine has the same dimensions I measured, that would make its induction timing also identical.

I do not know what duration Axial advertises their big block engines as having, but 187.7 degrees is about 20degrees too small for a performance induction profile.

Chronic

Jcam hooked me up with an Ebay seller(the guy in Texas) that has the V2 and the new pipe in stock. I ordered the pipe from him, but I got the engine from Mark at STSmicroengines.com. Mark told me that his supplier assured him that his latest shipment is all V2s.

supertib

Jim I told you a long time agao, an Axial is not really a performance mill....

for reference an STS has 238 degrees crank induction.

BicketyBam

I am new to RC and right now I am primarily a basher. So for me an Axial is the way to go. It has more power than my current F4.1 and it cost a lot less than the K4.6. Makes sense to me. If I were a racer, I'd go with the better performing STS engine (and still might somewhere down the road). So even if the Axial and the K4.6 performed EXACTLY the same, the Axial is significantly cheaper.

HerrSavage

The Axial may not REALLY be a "performance mill"(not an ideal choice of words IMO..), but for bashing, for people who don't want to fiddle around with needles all day, or broken pullstarts, or replace diffs every weekend, it's a pretty damn good choice. And it IS powerful.. To those VERY few poeple with tons of experience with high-end, high-maintenance engines and racing, etc.., maybe not, but for the VAST majority of backyard-bashers, certainly.. An early 70's muscle car might not be the fastest by a long shot compared to some high-end, expensive Formula 1, but it's still awfully damn cool...

Chronic

Let's not get lost in terminology here... sure the Axial offers a great deal of performance, but it's not a performance mill(if that makes sense). It's not an insult to the Axial or anyone running it.

The old 500ci Cadillac engines were a far cry from a performance mill, but drop one in a lightweight Nova or Camaro with tall gearing and that 5000rpm slug will pin you to the seat.

supertib

I actualy like Axial mills.... they are like a good old Chevy 454... can be used in lots of applications, lots of tourque, and make their power more from displacement then design. As well the Axials are not really picky on setup, they seem to work good with any pipe/fuel/plug combo you can come up with.... and they have a rookie freindly pullstart.

The STS mills tune and hold a tune awesome, but only if you have them in a good setup... good fuel, plug and pipe are a huge factor for these mills....But once the STS has its setup its super easy to tune and run... Usualy the things start first pull every time... This is why I tell people if they follow my steps they will have one of the best mills they have ever owned.... Even with a STS tuned pipe these mills are dirt cheap... So I can't see the big problem..

My vote is for STS over Axial any time... Running both types of engines as much as I have, the STS mills IMHO are a step above.

dude7422

supertib are the sts cranks chrome plated ??

HerrSavage

Fair enough. This is all relative though - I(like plenty of others I'm sure) am mostly only used to my stock Savage 25 and stock HB Lightning GT. The latter is kinda' dumb slow(though it handles great..), but the former was fun to drive - if not the fastest. Now I have my first SS, and it's A LOT of fun - for me.. Have I ever driven a Nova or RB 928 or STS 30?? No... But right now the Axial 28 - for me - is a hell of a lot of fun.. Eventually I'm probably gonna need an STS.. And after that I guess I'll have to go brushless and wear headphones with nitro sounds...

Right now though I'm loving my Axial..

And there are surely dudes who - like me a year ago - were loving their 25's... Just the way it is..

dude7422

ok here is a link to a hpi .28 motor on a dyno have a look and dont start about the nitrous lol look at the hp. of the .28 1.4 hp that is way under what the maker says out put is wonder whos rite lol...[link]http://www.rc411.com/pages/scopes.php?scope=28&page=2 ok[/link]

jcam54

Savagejim...check your pm's

I bought my motor from www.racernine.com and my pipe from "sts-pro_net" on ebay

The motor shipped today and the pipe I should get tomorrow.

SAVAGEJIM

Thanks so much! Im hitting their site right now as we speak! I look forwad to getting my D30M soon, Im also going to need to purchase the roto backplate as well, I never really like pull starts, especially during break-in.

Anywasy, upon further viewing of the K4.6/Axials with the D28M and D30M, there are other race tricks missing from the K4.6 and Axials. Aside from timing and port configurations, the D28/30M one way bering is a semi-cone shaped unit with scoop-like leading edges to help better atomize the fuel into the air. Th K4.6/Axial one way beaing is a plain and heavy round disc piece that lacks any of these things.

The way the ports are milled on the D28M (from what I saw of my own) are cut to direct the fuel-air charge where it needs to go where the K4.6/Axial ports are plain and perpendicular; not very useful in helping directing the fuel-air charge.

The D28M exhasust port in the engine block is nicely shaped and broad to help clear the cylinder quickly of exhaust immediately as it opens. the K4.6/Axial port has only a center "peak" in the exhaust port.

Too bad Nityrostar and Axial could not emply these ques into their engines. For the price of the STS engines, they ar packed full of very nice race features.

jcam54

No problem man here to help when I can!
Good luck with the sts!
I can't wait to get mine from the postman.

There's nothing like a big block, nitro fumes, and a killer exhaust note!