xpresssi

This is the setup guide that the boat is set to.
http://www.rcboatworks.com/Setups/St...de%20Lines.pdf

As far as the ballance of the boat I will have to build a jig to find that info out. The Motor is about 1/4 inch back further measuring to the center of the spark plug and the radio box is 1/4 inch forward from the stern. I am not sure what the prop pitch that is on the boat is. My friend gave me 25 props with the boat, some stainless and some brass. I also have a prop ballancer but do not know how to use it lol.

When he had the boat and the day that I bought it, the boat ran like a bat out of hell. It handled like it was on rails and it was very responsive on the throtle. I replaced his radio equiptment with better equiptment beings he was running a JR system. I installed hytec digital titanium servo for the throtle and a 1/8 scale digital servo for the rutter, I replaced the reciever with a 2.4 spectrum wich is all controlled by a M11.

I could not stand the paint job that he had painted the boat so before I ran the boat with my radio equiptment I DA'd the boat sealed it and droped some color and attitude to it. The boat set for about a year and I just recently added the art & hand stripes on the flames. I took the boat out 2days ago and that is when I had the problems. The day before I took this boat out I smoked the other which is in the picture sitting next to it. I had a cooling line that clogged, the boat died in the water, brought it back and it was smoking from under the hatch. I let it cool and tried to pull the cord and the cord would not retract. So now im motor hunting for fear that I smoked the motor. Just was not the best of days lol.

rcguy1411

if the engine has sat you may need to rebuld the carb gas gets crusty afrer a while also i belive spectrum radio s are a no no on watter they loose the signal and you loose your boat unless its the new marine version

xpresssi

I checked the carb out before I ran it and did not see any gunk but I will go thew it again just to make sure. You had stated that the spectrum units are not a good Idea on the water, what is the malfunction that they have been haveing so I can be aware of this issue. What reciever should I use that is less apt to have enterferience or loss. Thank you for your help RcGuy.

I would like to thank all of you that have lent me your time and advice. It will not be forgotten and I hope that one day I will be able to help each of you in the same way you have helped me. Thank You !

srw1960

I run the Spektrum system on my boats and to date have not had any problems..I have read alot of threads in differant forums and sights and it appears the issue with the spektrum systems is antenae placement..seems alot of the boat guys hate to see an antenae on there boat so they lay the antenae inside the hull and horizontly...the antenae needs to be as vertical as possible..that info comes from the spektrum web sight..thats how I have all my antenaes is through the hull and as vertical as I can get it..like I said I havent had any glitches and am pretty happy with the spektrum stuff..I have futaba radio gear as well and it works good to I cant say one is any better than the other...and spektrum has come out with a new receiver just for marine applications kinda pricey but like they say ya get what ya pay for......

I firmly beleive your running issue is purely a carb setting problem as has been mentioned also you might want to check the diaprgahm in the carb I beleive there are 2 in there and they function as a fuel pump if there not working right they wont pump enough fuel to run under a load theyll idle just fine but crap out when you load em up..carb kits arent real expensive for em and there easy to disassemble and rebuild..if you look on e bay you might be able to find a brand new replacement for less than the cost of a rebuild kit..
And I realize that exhaust pressure is used to push gas to the carb so you may think it doesnt need any type of fuel pump but the little carbs have a little one way valve in there that is actuated by the diapraghm so even though it has pressurized fuel to the carb if that diapraghm isnt working it will still not run under a load..
Your paint job by the way is fantastic! Im fixing to paint my new windy air boat with flames coming out of a pile of skulls. so looks like we think on the same lines with paint..

Hope I have helped a bit

xpresssi

Thank you for the advice and the complament on the paint SRW, I wish you well on your upcoming project. I do have a brand new big bore carb from Bonzi but I do not know if it will fit the BH motor. I have never placed the carb on any other boat and it is still in the box.I dont knw if these carbs are universal fitsor not. I am planning on taking the boat out to thelake tomorrow and using the adjustments that I have been told to try. If it still dies I will know now to replacethe diafram in the carbto save myself alot ofgreef. These darn boats are a big pain in the rear but I think that the pain is what keeps all of us comming back.

My fuelcell is notpressurized it is an IV bag so maybe that is part of the problem aswell? Thank you once again SRW your advice does help me alot.

srw1960

OK I have been thinking and you dont run exhaust pressure into the bags but I beleive it needs a vent tube...
These carbs are pretty much the same even if they have a bigger venturi they still have the same mounting dimensions so the carb you have should fit the BH just fine.
Good luck at the lake and let us know how it goes..

Dan S

just to clarify,
no vent tube required or needed on a bag,
that's why we run an IV bag instead of a hard tank.



Dan.

xpresssi

 K so I took the boat out to the lake today.........

  I tried the settings :  2 out on the LSN & 1 out on the HSN. The evil boats responce to these settings was..... 1 hard to start, pulled the string so many times that I now have double the blisters on my fingers. 2 when I would launch it into the water it would die about 5ft out. 3 Would not idle unless I assisted the evil beast. I leaned the HSN out a total of 1/4 turn and it made it out about 14 feet then died.

  So after about 5 hrs of tugging and getting my workout for the day, I learnd the speach of the sailors and gave up for a min so I could smoke a cig and cool myself down. I remembered that Dan said that my carb may not be pumping fuel so I reached into my lil box of goodies and pulled out the new carb that I had. I installed the carb which was alot easier then I tought and started the boat.... The boat idled really nice and when I gave it gas it screamed, so off to the water I went with a huge smile on my face thinking all of my problems had just vanished.... Well.... The boat made it about 40ft. just enough to give me a lil tease and then the evil nasty monster that I call a boat dies in the worst spot of the lake possible. I make a run for the boat triping over everything that could jump out and get me and by the time I got to the boat it had drifted nose first into... Yep you guessed it ......... A ROCKY BANK which it desided to chip the fresh paint off of the tips of the the cat.. GRRRRR... Maybe this boating thing is just not for me....

  I understand nitro engins and can tell by the sound of them what they are doing no matter if they are on an airplane or in an 1/8 th scale buggie. But this gas boat thing is very tricky to me. Can someone please tell me what the function of the HSN & LSN are and what sounds I should listen for as the boat makes its way out to its dying spot? On the nitro cars you can tell by your idol and how it responds , slugish means its loading up in the crank / meaning its to fat and needs to be leaned, when you jump and the car wines out after you let off the thotle it means you are running to lean...


  I NEED HELP>>>>> I wanna play in the water like you guys............[:@]

Dockman

I set my boat in the water after starting it and hold on to it reving it a few times just to make sure that it is not going to bog and die. I did just learn to start one of these evil little b@$tards you need to give them a quick choke and then about 1/2 throttle or more. I tried this process and it works for me. I think you need to keep playing with the needle setting (but don't turn it loose until it stays running while you are holding it). One other thing to consider is maybe the motor is wore out and needs a new ring???

srw1960

Ok Now I know...guess the plastic simply colapses as the fuel gets removed...

Anyway man im sorry to hear your still having so much trouble....seems to me the only differance between running on dry land and running on water is engine loading....as far as the sounds an engine makes I dont have enough experience tuning my gas engine to be a big help it started right up and ran just fine on the settings it came with so I honestly havent had to change them...BUT I have had plenty experience tunning weedeaters and small 2 stroke engines and understand the carb settings....the LSN or low speed needle comes into play at idle and below mid range rpm...the HSN or high speed needle comes into play above mid range rpm...there realy simple if it wont idle make certain the throttle is open enough for idle and adjust the needle until it will run if it dies slowly at idle id say its rich and needs to be leaned out..if it dies quickly its probably lean...high speed you open the throttle , dont open it wide open no need just get it above that mid range of rpm if it starts missing or stuttering lean out the hsn if it trys to die richen it up....thats how I set my other 2 stroke gas engines I hope it helps...and adjusting a marine 2 stroke carb may be differant dont take what im tellin ya as gospel....when ya get it in the water and under a load open it up and listen if it starts the stuttering again lean it out a bit if it opens up and runs then quits id have to say its still lean...could be carb setting our could be fuel flow no good way to tell the differance..ive worked on and built engines of all types and sizes since I was 9 wish I could help ya more

xpresssi

When I pull the motor over it has great compression and it runs great until it hits the water. Is this a sign that the motor needs new rings ?? I would love to beable to hold the boat in the water and give it a few good revs but the boat is to big for me to manhandle on the shallow shores of the lakes by me. I dont have a clutch on the boat so I believe that it would die as soon as I rest the prop into the water. What is your system for getting your boat into the water after it is running to allowyou to blip it as you hold it. I usually have my radio in one hand at the bow blipping the boat as my other is on the stern of the boat for the power toss into the water.

Thank you for your advice

Dockman

I fire it up and then set the boat in the water. I just put the back of the boat lightly in the water. I leave the canopy off and hold the transom from the inside lifting the prop partly out of the water. Then I grab my radio and blurp the the trigger a few times (once I get the radio in hand I let the boat on down in the water). I idle my boat up using the trim on the radio, if I try an use the idle screw my will die also when put in the water. Then when I bring the boat in I push the trigger forward and it drops the idle lower enough to kill it. Getting the radio to do this is pretty tricky but keep with it and you will get it.

srw1960

If you can get a friend who doesnt mind getting wet they should be able to hold the boat in the water for ya I certainly wouldnt open it up but you should be able to get a descent needle on it..but man I gotta tell ya kinda dangerous!!!! if they let loose prop could get em and thatd be bad...I know its frustrating getting these problems fixed...
If the ring was bad youd have low compression which would make it realy hard to get started also if that was the case the rope would pull pretty easy

Dockman

Maybe I should mention that I run mine off a baot dock and not the shore. So no danger of getting loose and prop hitting me. When I'am ready to go I just turn it loose and gas it up.

srw1960

sorry been in med field for last 18 years got used to lookin at how safe things are

xpresssi

See that is what my pile is suposed to do, start it up and give a toss throtle it up and give it some hell. lol Mine is an evil B@tch that hates my guts. I am going to take it back out tommorow and try leaning it out a lil to see what she does with the new carb on it. Do you know what your carb settings are or do you check them.

xpresssi

So everyone agrees that I should set my carb needles to these settings: 2 full turns LSN and 1 full turn HSN for a factory setting and lean it from there. I am supposed to add to one side what I take away from the other. Is this correct or am Iwrong ? If this is the case in leaning the motor out then I guess I should start by leaning my HSN and fatteing the LSN or do I have this backwards??


I am sorry I am such a pain in the stern but I am really wanting to run this lil powerhouse, it sounds freaking awsome when its running, I stess when its running... Thank you all for putting up with me.

Hydro Junkie

Run the needles all the way in then run them out the number of turns given above. If you're adjusting the needles from the previous settings, that could be part of the problem, you're getting the settings way too lean

Dan S

xpresssi,
sorry to hear that your still having problems,
what does the plug looks like? is it black has hell?
the plug could be fouled, have you tried a new one?

Dan.

xpresssi

The plug is kinda black but not like sloppy or gunky. I was thinking about that yesterday, is there a particular brand of plug you prefer Dan. When I installed the new Carb I checked to see what the factory setting was on the carb by counting the turns in and they were: 11/2 HSN & 11/2 LSN. At those settings is when it ran around 40 ft or so then just fell out onto its face. I did not get to try again after that run due to it getting dark and I needed to charge up my reciever bat. I checked the motor when I arived home for possible air leaks but did not find anything loose nor any slop in any area. It isnt as easy to find like it is with the 1/8 scale buggies, if the nitro engine has a leak you will be able to see the dirt dang up in that area which is more times then none by the back plate and the carb. Its a given on the tune pibe because of the spring connection and blow back from the stinger. On the boats I just looked for an oily mess like what a weed eater.

I removed the Valacity stack as you said but I did not notice a difference but then again the boat wont run long enough to for me to tell. Thank you once again for the advice Dan, I really am trying all of your suggestions, my boat is just evil.

xpresssi

Dan PM'd me and gave me the shake down on the needle settings the other day stateing the same as you here. At those settings the boat was super fat and was very very hard to start. I bet I pulled it about 30 times after prime to even get a lil kick out of it. I have to hold the throtle wide open to get it started then I kept blipping the throtle which could be a bad thing. I have to get out of blipping, its just second nature after racing buggies for so long.

Thank you for your help Hydro as I stated many times before I think she is just evil.

We have a saying at the dirt track for our needle seetings, Fat girls out, lean girls in, thats our korny lil memory saying for all of the new drivers.

Thank you again Hydro

Dockman

I pre set they before I go out and then adjust them to where ever. I keep an eye on the plug after a few runs. My is hard to start with the low speed to far out without throttle being at 1/2 or more. But the boat seems to run okay with it turned out as long as the idle is high. Last night I ran my boat and played with the carb alot. Tonight I will be checking to see where the needles are? Good luck tonight.

xpresssi

Thank you I will be needing it, me and my wife are taking bets on how many more blisters I will have at the end of the day. Do you want in on this action, im up to 6 in the past 3 days

tripoli

My Feedback: (1)

xpresssi,
I had many of the same issues when I got into gas boats and was pretty discouraged with the whole experiance. But like you I wasn't going to give up. I searched the net trying to find the "answer" to all my problems. I found the following during my search and it helped alot. I wish I could remember where I found it and who wrote the article. Like to give credit when it is due......Hope it helps.

"Basic carburetor tuning...



First thing first! Find out the model of carburetor you have on your engine and use known baseline settings to start. Fine tune from there...

Low Speed: There are different techniques to tune the low speed needle. I don't use any fancy techniques. I use the manufacturer's setting and fine tune from there to get a good crisp low to mid speed transition when the boat is on it's stand. Ultimate fine tuning must be done by actually running the boat and noting throttle response from low to mid speed.

If you have no idea where to start with the low speed setting, you can try this technique. Make sure the High Speed needle is opened about 1.5 turns. Completely close the LS needle then open it 1.5 turns and start the engine (give it throttle if required to get it to start). If it won't run, try opening LS needle a bit more, continue until it will at least run. I don't think I have ever seen a Walbro carb on our motors that will require much less than 1 turn open on the Low needle to run. When you get the engine to idle, keep it at idle and slowly close the LS needle until the motor begins to "four stroke". You will know what this means when you hear it. It will actually begin to sound like a four stroke motor. From that point open the LS needle about 1/8 turn at a time until it idles ok again and transitions from low to mid without much hesitation.



High Speed: The high speed needle is, in my opinion, virtually impossible to properly tune without actually running the boat on water. When the engine is put under load (boat on water) it will lean out a bit. You can however start with known baseline settings and do a few quick "blips" of the throttle and adjust the carb so that it tends to "clean out" at full throttle and not bog or hesitate too much. The best advice here is to keep it rich rather than lean.



The final and optimal tuning is done by running the boat on the water and reading the spark plug. Start with a new sparkplug or use a wire brush to clean the electrode and ceramic insulator on your used sparkplug if you can't find a new one. Try to start with a slightly rich setting. Launch the boat and run it for a few full throttle laps and take the boat in. Remove the spark plug and inspect the electrode and insulator (the insulator is white when new). You are looking to get a tan coloured tip. If the tip is black or dark brown your high speed needle is too rich. Close it (Clockwise) 1/8 turn and run it a few more laps and check it again. If the tip of the spark plug is "grayish" color or white, the HS needle is too lean. Open it (CCW) and run it a few more laps before checking again. You might want to open it more than 1/8 turn to try and get on the rich side and tune down from there to be safe. Continue until the spark plug tip remains a nice tan color. This is a safe setting that will yield good performance. You can venture and run a bit leaner but remember that too lean a setting can quickly result into an engine rebuild job! The fuel in our boats also supplies the lubrication for the engines so leaning the fuel mixture also reduces the available lubricant to the engine.



Note: with the newer spark plugs and the better quality synthetic oils most of us now use, reading the spark plug can be a little difficult at times. It might be necessary to run the boat longer in order to get accurate readings...for this reason it is better to start with a rich setting and work your way down to avoid running the engine under lean conditions for extended periods.


Some factors that will affect the tuning of your carburetor:


Temperature: As ambient (air) temperature rises, the carburetor will need to be leaned. Some people might actually think the opposite to be true and lean out the carburetor in colder weather to keep engine hotter, and vice versa. This is false! Colder air is denser and thus contains more oxygen for a given volume. For this reason in colder weather you must make the mixture richer in order to balance the air-fuel mixture for optimum performance. If the ambient temperature rises in comparison to your last adjustments, the mixture should then be leaned to rebalance the air-fuel mixture as hotter air contains less oxygen per given volume.

Atmospheric Pressure: You can find out atmospheric pressure by using a barometer or the local weather stations will usually list the daily atmospheric pressures for given regions. The higher the atmospheric pressure, the more air (and thus oxygen) is getting inside your engine. When atmospheric pressure is higher, the carburetor mixture should be richer to maintain optimum air-fuel mixture. As the atmospheric pressure drops the mixture should be leaned accordingly.

Humidity: Humidity is the amount of moisture in the air. This moisture takes the place of oxygen in the air for a given volume. If the humidity level is higher, there is accordingly less oxygen in the air and the carburetor setting should be leaned accordingly to maintain proper air-fuel mixture. In dryer conditions, the mixture should be richer.
Altitude: This is a very important factor that can often be overlooked. If you purchase an engine from a builder in Florida and you live in Denver Colorado, the carburetor settings this builder suggests for his engines most likely will not be correct for you in your location (unless he has taken your altitude into consideration).

A general formula is that power in a 2-stroke engine will decrease by approximately 3 percent for every 1000 feet of elevation above sea level. Taking Denver Colorado (over 5000 ft elevation) as an example, the same engine would produce approximately 15% less power in Denver as opposed to if it were run at or near sea level, assuming it is properly tuned! Improperly tuned, it would be even worse!

As you increase in altitude, the atmospheric pressure drops and the mixtures must thus be set leaner accordingly to maintain the best possible air-fuel mixture. You will still have to live with the 15% decrease in power if you are in Denver, but you will experience much worse decreases in power if you don't tune to optimize with what is available in the air!

Here is a little table to summarize all that has been discussed above.



Weather Condition
Needle Adjustments to Make

Higher Air Temp
Go Leaner

Lower Air Temp
Go Richer

Higher Atmospheric Pressure
Go Richer

Lower Atmospheric Pressure
Go Leaner

Higher Humidity
Go Leaner

Lower Humidity
Go Richer

Higher Altitude
Go Leaner

Lower Altidude
Go Richer

Remember that more than one of these conditions can and probably will change at the same time. This will at least get you headed in the right direction with your tuning.

The best suggestion I can make is start with known base settings and tune from there following the guidelines above.

Goos luck,
Trip

gtdad

maybe check the plug gap also...if it's too close then by theory it should be hard to start because there will not be enough spark to burn the fuel...this may cause it to flood easy also.  if it is too far, the spark will be weak and also not be efficiant in fuel burn.  it's definately worth a look