Welcome to Club SAITO !
Like most vehicles, there are limits, know the limits - avoid disasters !
The problem that got the narrow track CJ into trouble with Big Brother at the time was that the thing gave very little warning. The un-intiated felt fully in control until they attempted what seemed to be a rational maneuver. Bang, they were on their side, often with severe injury to limbs since so many chose to be sporty and run without doors.
After a huge number of such events, Uncle Sam did some testing, made his move and the new Jeep was born. Made a lot ot the trafitional Jeep creatures pretty angry to lose their beloved narrow track trail buster. I kinda liked them too! The Samurai was quite similar, a large percentage wound up in the crusher after catching an unwary driver off guard. Those narrow trackers are far better off-road than on in many ways.
The problem that got the narrow track CJ into trouble with Big Brother at the time was that the thing gave very little warning. The un-intiated felt fully in control until they attempted what seemed to be a rational maneuver. Bang, they were on their side, often with severe injury to limbs since so many chose to be sporty and run without doors.
After a huge number of such events, Uncle Sam did some testing, made his move and the new Jeep was born. Made a lot ot the trafitional Jeep creatures pretty angry to lose their beloved narrow track trail buster. I kinda liked them too! The Samurai was quite similar, a large percentage wound up in the crusher after catching an unwary driver off guard. Those narrow trackers are far better off-road than on in many ways.
Same can be said for those towing travel trailers with not enough truck. Tows fine, until it doesn't.
FlyerInOKC My buddies dad had a diesel repair shop, tractors and such, so my buddy had the tools and skills to do about anything auto related.
That Rr sucked when it cam to transporting airplanes, control line at the time mostly .35s. It also sucked off roading up those hills. My 65 Chevy truck with a 296 (think that right cubes) and a 4 speed granny box that I rebuilt (engine) did great on those hills with a sh*t load of big rocks against the tail gate and a few buddies as well. There are a fare few of those trucks running the local streets here in town, Modesto, Ca, ( American Graffiti.) I give 'em a good look but have no desire for one anymore. Lots more 67, 68s around for some reason.
Ken
That Rr sucked when it cam to transporting airplanes, control line at the time mostly .35s. It also sucked off roading up those hills. My 65 Chevy truck with a 296 (think that right cubes) and a 4 speed granny box that I rebuilt (engine) did great on those hills with a sh*t load of big rocks against the tail gate and a few buddies as well. There are a fare few of those trucks running the local streets here in town, Modesto, Ca, ( American Graffiti.) I give 'em a good look but have no desire for one anymore. Lots more 67, 68s around for some reason.
Ken
I had a 67 C30 with 292 straight 6 and three on the tree, all manual, no power anything. Called it rolling thunder since it has a straight pipe with a glass pack. 19.5 split rims, all black with a wooden tailgate and wooden bed. Wish I still had it.
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A friend of mine in HS had a 72 C-10 with a small block V8, 2 wheel drive. He could go everywhere most guys could go with 4WD. Me and other buddies quit riding with him when he bought a new Chevy Serra with 4WD because he would try to go the places he wouldn't with the old C-10. We were all scared to go with him but he finally calmed down after he got married and had twins.
Well acdii, so much for my memory. Yeah your are right 292. Easiest darn thing in the world to work on. Well that was only a few years ago.
FlyerInOKC I used to pull the same stunt hill climbing with a 60 Ramble American 300. Get loads of weight over the back tires. Buddies laying on the trunk, and holding on to the open rear window frame. Did that once and found a jeep the opposite direction trying to climb and failing. He really could not believe I managed it. Managed to hole my gas tank. Cleaned it real good, scuffed it with coarse sand paper and fiber glassed the hole. Never did fail.
Ken
FlyerInOKC I used to pull the same stunt hill climbing with a 60 Ramble American 300. Get loads of weight over the back tires. Buddies laying on the trunk, and holding on to the open rear window frame. Did that once and found a jeep the opposite direction trying to climb and failing. He really could not believe I managed it. Managed to hole my gas tank. Cleaned it real good, scuffed it with coarse sand paper and fiber glassed the hole. Never did fail.
Ken
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I remember when my gas tank of my TR-3 started to leak. Good luck finding a replacement. I conned a radiator shop into vatting it over night and rather than weld it he wrapped the bottom with sheet metal. I worked it never leaked after that. His was like the third shop I tried it seems there is a danger of the inside tank deposits igniting when welding.
Well gee wiz, I have no ideal why the tank could go xplody. Yeah I fiber glassed after seeing if I could my my welded. He seemed to think I was pretty dumb for even asking. I supposed it was dumb. I am a bit more safety conscious now. Would have to be to have made it this long I suppose.
Ken
Ken
Well gee wiz, I have no ideal why the tank could go xplody. Yeah I fiber glassed after seeing if I could my my welded. He seemed to think I was pretty dumb for even asking. I supposed it was dumb. I am a bit more safety conscious now. Would have to be to have made it this long I suppose.
Ken
Ken
I don't know if he gained anything installing a TR-4 tranny there wasn't much difference. I had the electric overdrive which was fun to play with along with both hard and soft tops. I know Thorsen made a supercharger but it was anything but bolt on. I knew a guy who worked at a machine shop and they had a guy bring one in. It cost him a fortune to get it installed.
Did have a 1966 Spifire MK Ii, 1147cc. Also had the GT-6 version. Add to that a couple Austin Minis and a total of 5 MGBs and a 1971 1275 Midget. The last MGB really spoiled me. It had the Laycock DeNormanville overdrive unit. Funny what a difference when you flip the lever and drop 500 RPM.
The 1940 Chevrolet Special DeLuxe Coupe I bought when I was 16 became an ongoing project car.
Had the original iron piston 216.5 inch stovebolt 6. I found an original 1953 Corvette Blue Flame 6 with three side draft Carter YH carbs, and split dual exhaust manifold. A very easy swsp, at age 17, that was the setup.
Saitos take a lot less time and are far simpler
The neighbors like it now that we are down to a pair of cars and a pair of motorcycles, me too.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-24-2021 at 05:26 PM.
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I am wondering if anyone has experience running FAI fuel (no nitro) in a Saito 180? I am getting one of these ready for a scale model that may be traveling to Europe to compete, so I want to get the nitro out of it. What have w e found to be the best oil percentage? 18% all synthetic or maybe a 50/50 castor synth mix?
Jim, I just sold Dave's beautiful Smith Miniplane for $400! You would have loved it. It had a great running Saito FA 300T and was ready to fly, add fuel and charge batteries.
Hyjinx got to see it in person, a great looker and it flies very well.
Sure wish you lived closer, I would have sent you home with 10 gallons of real model airplane fuel too.
Hyjinx got to see it in person, a great looker and it flies very well.
Sure wish you lived closer, I would have sent you home with 10 gallons of real model airplane fuel too.
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Edited below.
hey guys, I had an idea and as you can see below it worked. I have a very cheap, cheap cheap Digital Microscope. how cheap you ask? cheaper than a Micky D breakfast for four, $25 it was. and it fit right into my FA 91 cylinder, so see what I see. or saw.
as I told Dave and Capt that the Intake Valve Seat is a bit messed up, part of the seat is not even there. and part of it looks like the cutter or the part or jig vibrated while machining, so this is why she was running poorly on the bench. to add I could hear the intake valve hissing when turning the engine threw it's compression...
photo 1001 , 1002 and 1005 shows where the cutter took off to much on one side of the seat.
photo 1003 shows there is all most no seat on that side.
EDIT) photo 1003 show no seat, its just a straight cut.
photo 2001 (bottom photo) shows how nice the exhaust seat is.
Jim
hey guys, I had an idea and as you can see below it worked. I have a very cheap, cheap cheap Digital Microscope. how cheap you ask? cheaper than a Micky D breakfast for four, $25 it was. and it fit right into my FA 91 cylinder, so see what I see. or saw.
as I told Dave and Capt that the Intake Valve Seat is a bit messed up, part of the seat is not even there. and part of it looks like the cutter or the part or jig vibrated while machining, so this is why she was running poorly on the bench. to add I could hear the intake valve hissing when turning the engine threw it's compression...
photo 1001 , 1002 and 1005 shows where the cutter took off to much on one side of the seat.
photo 1003 shows there is all most no seat on that side.
EDIT) photo 1003 show no seat, its just a straight cut.
photo 2001 (bottom photo) shows how nice the exhaust seat is.
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 08-24-2021 at 09:16 PM.
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Garry, that's a very nice plane with a very nice engine at a great price !! but, I think my wife would have looked very funny at me if I brought it home LOL
Jim
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 08-24-2021 at 09:09 PM.
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if needed, or wanted click my link, this one is $42, as I said I paid $25 for mine, but you can get a better one for $100
just know that companies are buying them up and putting different brand names on them.
Jim
just know that companies are buying them up and putting different brand names on them.
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 08-24-2021 at 09:08 PM.
Excellent pics Jim. Sure shows how crudely those little valve seats are formed. Nothing like the super fine finish made by a Hall-Toledo orbital seat grinder on full size engines
Sounds like your wife has a lot of experience from good deals that you have brought home in the past eh? Mine too!
Sounds like your wife has a lot of experience from good deals that you have brought home in the past eh? Mine too!
Senior Member
Edited below.
hey guys, I had an idea and as you can see below it worked. I have a very cheap, cheap cheap Digital Microscope. how cheap you ask? cheaper than a Micky D breakfast for four, $25 it was. and it fit right into my FA 91 cylinder, so see what I see. or saw.
as I told Dave and Capt that the Intake Valve Seat is a bit messed up, part of the seat is not even there. and part of it looks like the cutter or the part or jig vibrated while machining, so this is why she was running poorly on the bench. to add I could hear the intake valve hissing when turning the engine threw it's compression...
photo 1001 , 1002 and 1005 shows where the cutter took off to much on one side of the seat.
photo 1003 shows there is all most no seat on that side.
EDIT) photo 1003 show no seat, its just a straight cut.
photo 2001 (bottom photo) shows how nice the exhaust seat is.
Jim
hey guys, I had an idea and as you can see below it worked. I have a very cheap, cheap cheap Digital Microscope. how cheap you ask? cheaper than a Micky D breakfast for four, $25 it was. and it fit right into my FA 91 cylinder, so see what I see. or saw.
as I told Dave and Capt that the Intake Valve Seat is a bit messed up, part of the seat is not even there. and part of it looks like the cutter or the part or jig vibrated while machining, so this is why she was running poorly on the bench. to add I could hear the intake valve hissing when turning the engine threw it's compression...
photo 1001 , 1002 and 1005 shows where the cutter took off to much on one side of the seat.
photo 1003 shows there is all most no seat on that side.
EDIT) photo 1003 show no seat, its just a straight cut.
photo 2001 (bottom photo) shows how nice the exhaust seat is.
Jim
I don't see anything wrong with the seat that a little lapping and polishing wouldn't fix. Probably salvageable with a little work.
"Fixing" shouldn't be needed. That one "seat" looks like a sharp 90. "Lapping'l should be a finishing only operation. I would prefer making a cutter and getting a true, formed seat.
I haven't met a Saito valve/seat yet that I couldn't grind/lap/polish to seal to perfection as long as the valve guide isn't too badly worn. OS/Magnum is a different story. I have run into a couple of those with warped heads/exhaust seats from improper torque and/or severe overheating.
That said, there is evidence of the valve lip/edge hammer forming on the seat in pic #1 and #4. I have not seen that to such a great degree on any of my Saito overhauls. Between the thicker combustion chamber/deeper seat and the hammer forming resulting from it the valve margin is probably too small for a gasser exhaust valve to last long. May not be a problem for the cooler running methanol fuel.
Edit: Just to be clear, I clean the seats with one of those giant kindergarten pencil erasors and lacquer thinner first. If the valve won't seal I try lap/polishing with super fine automotive polish. If that fails I lap the valve with a fine grit metal polish. If that fails (rare) I grind/lap the valve with fine valve lapping compound (only had to do that on one Saito and had to replace the valve as well).
Last edited by Glowgeek; 08-25-2021 at 05:07 PM.
If the seat ring, as cut is not perpendicular to the guide bore and concentric with the bore centerline it is sadly beyond most hope for restoration by lapping. Often leaky exhaust seats seem more likely to "cure" themselves while intakes rarely do. I use old valves for lapping with no intention to actually use that valve in the running engine. A rudimentary disposable seat truing tool can be made from an old valve by using a small "marking" Swiss Jewelers file to form sharp cutting reliefs around the periphery of the valve head. A good pin vice on the stem and a few sweeps of the well lubed cutter should create a decent, usable seat. Do not over do it or you will wind up with a valve pocketed.
Seats in many of these little buggers are pretty crude it seems.
Good pics Mr Jim
Seats in many of these little buggers are pretty crude it seems.
Good pics Mr Jim
Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-25-2021 at 06:16 PM.
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Jim