HeliStyle

My Feedback: (2)

jpee and nick michaels carries a pretty good selection of balsa, I have bought some there before.

helicorpse

Howdy all... great day here...


Sorry to hear of the insufferable heat in some parts of the country, it's the opposite here.... unheard of high tem p for a day in July in Misery, that's (<mISSOURI>) for the rest of the country, it was only 72 for a high a couple days ago, and still wet.. as always.

I'm really looking forward to getting to the point where I have the skills to fly for a dozen paks at a time.. the flight time comes slowly and with alot of bench time inbetween for me. When I can go out an fly three packs without crashing, I feel good and learn alot as stick time for me comes at a high price... in repair & rebuild time, mostly cheap crashes though as I'm not flying really aggressively yet.


Glenn!! I could use some information on the settings you use on your accucel-8 programming.. I need a crash course electrical engineering degree to operate this thingy it seems. Keep it simple for me for a while, I've got the manual downloaded and have questions... I'm powering it with a regulated dc power supply that puts out 4 amps and it's doing fine, the charge unit ratings put it at a 4 amp load. I've only used the small .8 rate chargers that come with the rtf heli's for charging both the outrage (2) 3s 25c 800mAh batteries for the cpp, and also I have (2) Rhino 3s 20c 2150mAh, & (2) 3s 25C 2200mAh for flying the belt cp and the 450 SE v2. For starters I left most the user settings stock, and on the balancing program put the outrage charge rate at .8 and successfully read the individual cell voltage etc and performed a charge, but now for the bigger batteries I can raise that rate to 1C??? of a 2150 or 2200 mAh battery then I can set at 2 or 2.1 charge rate correct?.. the batterys should not be discharged below individual cell charge of 3v? and they charge back to 4.2 and if at start of charging they are above that value then more flight time is available so work out the numbers via percentage used and left and fly it longer next time.. If all that is correct I'm on the right track and I hope that I am...

otherwise... I also got the gt twin charging lead for charging two packs at once but dont know how to config the lipo balancing charge program for using it, didn't know the charge rate, voltage, or cell settings, for doing two packs at once. I assume maybe you use the six cell settings for voltage? Do you use the discharge program at all on the lipo's, or the fast charge program?

every day without a crash is a good one
make it happen

helicorpse
(Peter)

evdreamer

Helistyle,

Since you have a lot of Balsa at your Michaels I should check mine out, since it is a lot closer than my LHS.

Peter,

Good to hear you are staying in the air more and crashing less. The 1C rate of the 2150mAh battery is 2.15A and the 2200mAh battery is 2.2A. Since the 2150mAh battery 1C rate is .05A less than the 2200mAh battery you could just make one profile for both of those batteries for 11.1V at 2.2A. 1C is just the capacity in Ah or mAh/1000. What I learned is to not go below 3.7V/cell if possible. That is about 80% of the battery. You can go lower, but the performance of the battery will get worse and the cycle life will go down.

Now for your adaptor. If it is like the one JPEE and Glenn have it puts the two batteries in series. That is when the red wire goes into the black wire of the second battery. Then the black and red wire left over become the output/input of the battery. When you put batteries in series you add the Voltage and the capacity stays the same. When both red wires are connected together and both black wires are connected together they are in parallel. When that happens the Voltage stays the same and you add the capacities together.

Ex) two 3S 2200mAh batteries in series= 22.2V 2200mAh. It would be charged at 22.2V and 2.2A
Ex) two 3S 2200mAh batteries in parallel = 11.1V 4400mAh. It would be charged at 11.1V and 4.4A

You may also see S and P next to battery specs. The S means series and the P means Parallel. So if you have a 3S2P battery it means there are 3 cells in series and that is in parallel with 3 other cells in series.

The only time I have discharged a battery is when it was puffed or damaged. I do that at 1/10 the C rating. The only time I would recommend charging over 1C is if the battery says the battery can do that. However, the faster you charge a battery, the shorter the cycle life will be. So there is a compromise between how long you want to wait for the battery to charge and how long you want the battery to last.

Hope this short explanation helped you understand this more.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Not much new here, just getting in some flying here and there when I can...hope everyone is getting some flying in as well...

Peter, sounds like Nick covered all the bases better than I could have! He is correct on the adapter, just charge the packs as if they are a 6S pack, (22.2 volts) and at the proper "C" rating, as Nick already pointed out...

One tip that I found out is that the "Lipo Charge" option, the one the charger always defaults to, does NOT balance the cells, just charges them. If you want to balance and charge at the same time, scroll down to the next selection, "Lipo Balance"....I have noticed that if the packs are not very, very close when doing two 3S packs on the adapter, it can take quite some time to balance them...over an hour for me at times...but, it does eventually get them balanced properly, just takes a bit of time.

The only time I have used the discharge option is if I know I am not going to be using the pack (s) for a while, like over a month...then I'll take them down to about 3.8 volts, which is what is recommended by most as a storage voltage...IF I remember to do it!! I have read that it is bad to store lipos long term fully charged.

Congrats on getting more comfortable in the air, and have a better flight to repair ratio....it will get better with time and practice!

Nick,

Neat CAD program!! I like your plan to do the repair in CF...and it would be cool to make it like modular, so that the pieces that are prone to break would be more easily replacable...kinda like bolt in replacements...

My LHS does not have much in the way of wood either...when I was building the battery trays for the CPP2's, I discovered that there is a harder kind of wood, called Basswood, it looks like Balsa, but is much stronger, and still easy to work with. But it sounds like CF is the way to go, in the long run as you are planning.


JPEE,

Yeah, you have more helis than you know what to do with....lol, like I should be talking! Half my fleet are "shelf queens"....LOL

Hope you guys get to fly some soon...

Glenn

Dankhead25

guys

my buddy had a bad crash today and bent the tail boom main shaft what all do we need to look at for replacing and fixing

thanks

nick
what are you going to school for?

Dankhead25

HEY IS THE SPEED UP TAIL SHAFT AND GEAR SOMETHING HE SHOULD THINK OF WHILE HE HAS IT ALL APART IS IT WORTH IT

rotarydoc

Hey Jeremy,

OUCH! Yeah, looks like he bent it up a bit...nothing too serious looking though, almost always looks worse than it is...

You'll want to replace the upper main bearing when you do the main shaft, as it almost always gets rough after a hit like that....and of course the tailboom....looks like you'll wanna take a look at the tail servo pushrod as well...

Take a good look at the tail shaft also...the one the tail blades/hub attach to....they bend really easily as well.

You'll probably need the feathering shaft, for sure, figure on replacing the jesus screws (the ones on the main shaft to head, and to the main gear, 2mm x 12mm screws).

Check the main gear for tooth damage, check the flybar, gotta be perfectly straight, and just look at everything really close as you take it apart. Check the tiny screws on the see saw holder up near the rotor head, sometimes they break off where you can't see them, they should both be there, and not loose/spinning.

Mostly, it's just looking very closely for bent/broken stuff, it's easy to overlook things, until you get more experience/crash repair...the more crashes, the better you'll get at spotting/estimating damage...lol..[X(]

I have not tried the speed up gear yet...but I do know that it is a PITA to replace, it's sandwiched between the frame halves...I think JPEE has done them before.....only time I ever did mine was when I did the whole frame....in a BIG crash...lol.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out...

Glenn

Dankhead25

is there a fethering shaft on the tail shaft i cant get the tail shaft out of the blade grips

rotarydoc

Jeremy,

There is a tailshaft, the shaft that the tail pitch slider moves back and forth on, then there is the tail hub, which is what the blade grips are attached to....there should be a small set screw that holds the tail hub to the tail shaft. There is no feathering type shaft in the tail hub.

Hope this helps. Might be good to look at the exploded view in the manual as well....

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Yeah I like the CAD program I downloaded. I am glad I took some CAD classes in high school to know how to use this one. It is pretty similar to the one I had at school, but didn't cost $400.

I haven't been flying for awhile. I like to go when I don't have an afternoon class, so I can have the field to myself. However, I have been getting scheduled to work on those days. I am planning on going tomorrow if the weather is decent.

Jeremy,

I am going to school to be an electronic tech. I didn't know what I wanted to do out of high school, so I went to a community college to see whats out there. I now know being a tech would bore me too much, so after I finish this degree I am going to go to an Engineering school for electronics.

Nick

Dankhead25

yes that helps we just didnt have the manual he left it at home and was down at my house are the bering in the tail case a good thing to replace while we are in there also
one more thing we noticed that the main gear was cracked and i thought i read somewhere in this post about a one way bering puller how does it work is it special tool and is it a good ting to get does the main bering crack alot

rotarydoc

Jeremy,

The tail case bearings are probably fine, the only ones that usually take a beating are the main shaft bearings, particularly the upper one.

That is strange that the main gear is cracked, you can get them with or without the one way bearing....it's cheaper in the long run to get the tool, and transfer the bearings, since the bearings don't really fail too often....they can fail, so I wounldn't use one over and over...but once or twice should be fine, esp if you/he are crashing alot.

Here is a tool for the one way bearing;

http://www.helidirect.com/align-onew...elis-p-408.hdx

Well worth it in the long run!

Glenn

HeliStyle

My Feedback: (2)

hey guys, got my fs one simulator controller in from horizon hobby yesterday, I had a hard time setting it up as I didn't know I had to download the lastest patch to make it work lol

But overall I am pleased with it, its no g4 or anything but good enough for me to learn stuff on rather then crashing my helicopter lol

Let me tell you something though doing flips is sooo easy on a simulator, even though have done a few in real life without crashing, the simulator I can do 100 of them before crashing at least once.

helicorpse

Good morning....

thanks for the charging info Nick & Glenn...

I can now determine how to get the most flight time out of the batteries as possible... it seems that after a six minute flight with the Belt CP with the 450v2 head on it using 2150 or 2200 lipos that I've got about another minute to fly with a bit of reserve left.. and with the CPP2 using the outrage 800 paks I've got about the same seven minute flight capability. I'm sure if I flew more agressively it might go down. It's all good, actually better than good!! I was on track with the series and parallel sets but wanted to confirm voltage and rate doubled when charging two 3s packs with the gt power 6s -3s connector... I was getting used to using both the balancing plug and the deans connected power leads when charging as my other chargers just connected thru the balancing plugs and did not use the power lead. The GT Twin lead must bridge the power leads between batteries for you, as it seems as if I just have to connect to the power lead comming out of the twin connector to the charger and set the voltage and rate up correctly. I am using the balance charge program. Nick, did you indicate that you can do something to fix or possibly correct a puffed pak condition. Also, I've got one battery that getting quite hot while flying, but the others stay a whole lot cooler. Is there way to imporve that condition by any means?? Glenn, I haven't actually used the twin lead yet, however, I have (3) sets of (2) batteries evenly matched for age and type and mfg and will pay attention to the cell votages when starting. Can you read the cell voltage with that charger before you actually start the charge or just after, as it seems to me?

Dankhead,

I know I'm just a novice and a heli hack, so forgive me if I offend thee.. however, if I had bought a new feathering shaft, main shaft, flybar, and bearings every time I laid my heli down I'd be lined up at the soup kitchen now. You will get the pure and the best advise from the guys, but I'm hear to tell you that you can straigten things out with practice, patience, and skills and get the heli back to flying without full replacements every time at least untill you have the skills to demand and require perfection from your heli. I can get my heli flying pretty darn smoothly again reusing rebuilt parts and sparing some down time and expense. By the by I also straigten the tail tubes, I found a drill bit with the right od to match the id of the tube.. think it was 29/64th or something... I drive it thru the tube to take out the indents and basically it straigtens it out, a bit of hammering with a dead blow mallet on the shank of the bit while its in the tube and the tube on a flat surface, a bit of this and that and whal-laaaa you have a slightly abused and cosmetically scarred tail tube that flys with the best of em.

Late on bros
Helicorpse Pete

JPEE

Jeremy,


I also dont know what your flying but if it is a 400 I have cracked the main gear 6-7 times from a crashs. It splits the side out right? That happeneds from the crash where the top and bottom gerar get pushed into themselves. Do as Glenn said and get the one-way bearing tool, heck I change the bearing every time that happens or if I just strip a gear from a mild crash, it all works fine and you save $$ rather than buying a gear WITH bearing.


JPEE

evdreamer

Peter,

You can't fix a puffed battery. Once that happens it will stay like that and won't be safe to fly with. I have a couple of batteries that puffed last year and are still puffed. I was just nervous about having a charged puffed battery, so I slowly discharged it all the way. That way I didn't have to worry about them.

What heli and battery are you talking about that gets hot. With the Belt CP and CPP you can cut cooling holes on the bottom of the canopy and window to allow cool air through. Is it a high C battery like around 20-25C? If not you are probably drawing over the continuous current for long periods of time.

Nick

Dankhead25

jpee

that is what happened it split up the side it is my buddys b400. have you used the tail drive speed up gear we were wonderin while we had it apart changing the main gear if we should replace that to the up grade version.

thanks \
jeremy

evdreamer

Guys,

I had a fun time flying at my field today. I got 8 flights in and practiced some of the K1.5 moves from the 3D masters. I tried to do the rolling circle, but need a lot more practice on that. Then I didn't even bother trying the rolling loop. Then I can do most of the other ones except the K1.5 auto. I also practiced my autos too from really high up. I think it is easier practicing them high up instead of down lower. There is just the intimidation factor of cutting the power when the heli is that high up. I think I give a little too much negative pitch because the heli comes down pretty quick. However, I would rather do that then loose all my headspeed up in the air. I also figured out how to use the buddy box feature on my DX7. The button is a pain to get to and hold. So I let an airplane guy that was interested in helis have a go at it. He took it easy and just did tail in hovering, which I was glad he did. He did really good with my cyclic rates and I didn't have to take over for the full flight except for taking off and landing.

JPEE

Jeremy aka DANK

Yes I did try it once and not knowing it was a speed up gear but that was all they had. Did help? If it did I did not "notice it" because I wasn't looking for it. If it had been dramatic I would have noticed I think. I use the standard tail rotor gear on both of my flying 400s and have no problem. Though one has a Fatuba 401 the other is stock and they fly nearly the same. THE SECRET..... increase the head speed even in normal. If you do a shoot out in NORMAL the tail will wag. If your in idel up or stunt she holds like a rock because the faster the head speed the faster the tail rotors goes to keep up.


NICK: Glad you had a great fly day after what you've been through lately. I might ask you about the DX7 trainer too. I know I kinda read up on it and it seems you have to have you finger in a real uncomfortable position up by that slider.


JPEE

Dankhead25

jpee

thanks for the info we wont give it a try then but how could we increase his head speed will that make the cyclic response faster also?

evdreamer

JPEE,

I think you said when you used your transmitter as a buddy box the slave transmitter had to have the same settings as yours. Well I used the P-Link option on mine and the other guy's transmitter didn't have any of the same settings and worked great. I had him test the controls and they were all the same and the swash was level through out its travel. So that lead me to believe the settings on my transmitter were being sent to the heli, but just the stick movements were coming from the slave transmitter. Yeah my finger was starting to hurt after 4min. It is the black switch at the top left in the middle of the transmitter. I was holding the switch up towards the word trainer, but I wonder if I can hold it down instead. I tried that out and it is more comfortable in that position. My finger slipped off of it a couple of times during the flight. Least it beeps at me to know I did it.

Nick

JPEE

Dank,

Yes it might make it act faster. So you can adjust your DR/EXPO and soften your sticks as to how fast they respond to movements. In a DX6i it is in the second window choice under ADJUSTMENTS. It is right under the model select choice in the Adjustment Window. I fly at 100% and no EXPO for fast response to my stick but you could try dropping your settings "if you feel" the need to tone down a bit and play around.

Lift the heli up in front of you in a hover, 6 feet or less. Then hit you right stick to make the heli drift left or right and so how fast it responds. If you dont like it "raise" the + number in your transmitter and try again and just keep going until your comfortable. DONT get to mushy! Just adjust the number sign the right side to a higher number.

Here are the stock settings, so just mush them up if you feel you need to.

I HAVE ATTACHED SOMETHING SPECIAL FOR YOU. IT IS THE BLADE 400 MANUAL (BUT) A SPECIAL COPY WITH ALL OF THE SETTINGS FOR FLYING WITH A DX6i, or DX7 or a JR Transmitter.

Spektrum DX6i

In the “Adjust� list (ADJUST LIST):
Dual Rate and Exponential (D/R&EXPO)

AILE 0 100% +20%
ELEV 0 100% + 20%
RUDD 0 100% + 35%

AILE 1 80% + 15%
ELEV 1 80% + 15%
RUDD 1 70% + 25%
Note: These values serve only as starting points. It may be necessary to decrease or increase the
values per your preference.
Travel Adjustment (TRAVEL ADJ)
RUDD <- 90% -> 90%
Gyro Sensitivity (GYRO)
RATE SW – GYRO
0: 67.5%
1: 65.0%
Note: These values serve only as starting points. It may be necessary to decrease or increase the
values in order to achieve the proper gain setting value.
Throttle Curves (THRO CUR)
POS L POS 2 POS 3 POS 4 POS H
NORM 0.0% 25.0% 50.0% 75.0% 100.0%
STUNT 100.0% 92.5% 85.0% 92.5% 100.0%
HOLD - 0.0%
Pitch Curves (PITC CUR)
POS L POS 2 POS 3 POS 4 POS H
NORM 35.0% 42.5% 50.0% 75.0% 100.0%
STUNT 0.0% 25.0% 50.0% 75.0% 100.0%
HOLD 35.0% 42.5% 50.0% 75.0% 100.0%
Note: In order to perform auto-rotations, it will be necessary to set the POS L value for HOLD



JPEE.......let me know

helicorpse

Howdy...

Yeah Nick I didn't think you could do anything with the puff pack but you mentioned doing a complete discharge to a puffed pack when talking about the charger, just before you throw it away then?

The pack is over a year old and one of the original ones I got from Esky with the belt... it's a 20c I think, but then I did'nt have good charging equipmenet and didn't practice good battery care on it, sure to have over discharged the battery before etc. etc. etc... Have no issue with either the bqy 2200 25c or the zippy rhino 2150 20c paks.. they stay very cool and it looks like I can fly the belt cp for 7 minutes with those. I'm getting seven minutes with the outrage 800 25c packs with the blade cpp also... I assume the flight times will go down as I get more aggressive in flight so I'll be checking.

Gonna go out a sail today on Stockton Lake on my SouthCoast 22.


have a nice day
Helicorpse

JPEE

Hey Nick,

I hear you and I wont disput when you LIVED at the field but here is what the book says for the DX6i


Genera l Information

The DX6i offers a Trainer function that allows the transmitter to operate as a master or slave. The trainer switch is
located on the back left of the transmitter.
MASTER
The transmitter can be used as a master but the slave transmitter must have the same programming (i.e. reverse,
travel adjust, dual rates, mixes, sub trims, etc.) as the master.

SLAVE MODE (CONVENTIONAL)
When using the transmitter as a slave with another DX6i it’s necessary to match all the programmable settings (i.e.
reverse, travel adjust, etc.).

Whadda ya think??

JPEE

evdreamer

Peter,

It isn't safe to throw a LiPo away that is charged. If it managed to get shorted out on something the battery could easily supply hundreds of amps and start something on fire in the trash. This is just food for thought. A fully charged 3S LiPo will supply 1260A with something that is just .01Ohms. Metals have a lower resistance than that. Have fun sailing.

JPEE,

The DX6i might not have this, but the DX7 has 3 different trainer options. The first one is normal and it requires the slave transmitter to have the same settings as the master like you described. Then there is the P-link. From the manual it says only the aileron, elevator, rudder, and throttle go through and the rest the master controls. That is what I used. Then there is slave/p-link and the slave transmitter doesn't need to match the master either.

Nick