evdreamer

JPEE,

That one balance lead wouldn't affect the pack while flying and only while charging. It would still be a 6S pack.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Just got back from the field a bit ago...and I think that I have narrowed the Raptor issue down some at least...the CF blades helped diagnose the issue, I do believe...

I spooled it up, and no issues, checked tracking, it was very close, hard to concentrate on watching that when you're hovering a relatively unfamiliar .50/600 size heli!!![X(]

So, I put it back down again, and noticed on the spool down (new term..lol!)...it went through that vibration again...like before, but without all the flapping/shuddering/blade noise as before...it was just a very severe shake/vibration...

Then I brought it back, changed the tracking a bit, and took it back out..and was able to pinpoint the vibration to a certain blade RPM...like it's got a critical speed at which the vibration is severe...it's practically non existent in a hover, or a slow spin up....but right inbetween, there is a "critical" RPM in which it vibrates severely...

I have seen this many times on cars....rarely does a vibration in a wheel or driveshaft present itself over the entire speed range of operation... i. e. a wheel vibration may be evident at 45 MPH, but be non-existent at 70 MPH....

The other tip off's were that the head button wobbles slightly on spool down, and the entire heli also wobbles on spool down, even after the blades have "set" in place from a flight...and I am 100% sure on the blade balance...

So, I am suspecting the main shaft is slightly bent...now, how to check it accurately?? I was reading in RC Heli, that rollling it on glass is not always 100% accurate...this was in an article about dial indicators and their use on RC helis...which is also the method used in my Shop and Field companion by Ray Hostetler, he's big on the dial indicator...which will show a .002 or even .001 variance in the shaft....Harbor Freight has them for about $30 for the entire kit...was temped to get one before...

LOL, it's not quite like the B400, where I would just take the rotor head off, and spool it up on the table!!! But, in place of the dial indicator, that might not be such a bad idea...take the entire head off, leaving just the mainshaft, and then take the tail blades off...and then start the engine and run it at idle...and watch the shaft...just some ideas I've been mulling over on the way home...

At least I feel like I'm on the right track now...getting closer...

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

You could also just spin the main gear by hand instead of running the engine, while checking the dial indicator. Dial indicators are also popular on assembling the clutch/starter shaft to the engine.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

Yeah, that was what I was thinking, I probably wasn't clear, either use the dial indicator by hand, or if I can't get one, I could do the other way, running the engine...

I would bet that I could probably see it if I rolled it on a glass plate or something, but I would like to have and get used to using a dial indicator anyways...

The last few times I was at Harbor Freight, they had the dial indicator kit, which has a vise grip type clamp setup, case, the whole works for like $30...probably a wise investment in the long run, as you were pointing out, for the starter/clutch assembly as well..

I did get a head temp reading today, it was rather uneven across the head, anywhere from 187 to about 210 at the hottest spot...

It's getting alot better flight times on fuel now....not gobbling fuel like it was...

I'll check out the mainshaft/vibration issue this weekend before I try to fly it anymore. It flies and hovers great, but that vibration will shake it apart in time...[X(]

I hope I'm on the right track...it'll be a good place to start, anyways...

Thanks for the ideas!

How's things at your end? Still waiting on screws? Gonna fly the 600 anytime soon?

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

It would be quicker with the dial indicator too.

That is good you are getting longer flights now. The guy with the Raptor 30 says his heli just sips the fuel and when he watches the 50 fly he can see it go through a tank a lot faster.

Yeah I am still waiting on the screws. I wanted to fly the 600 today, since I get out of school eariler on Thursdays. However, it was pretty windy today and the weather doesn't sound too good for the weekend either.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

I was looking at that book, and he takes the mainshaft out, and puts it on a block with bearings...seems like alot of trouble to me....but then again, he shows you how to straighten a slightly bent shaft to within .001

If mine's bent, it's getting a new one...lol..

Yeah, it would be easiest of all to just get the dial indicator, and check it while it's still in the heli, I'm sure there is a way to mount the dial indicator to the heli somewhere...and besides, it gives me an excuse to buy a new tool/toy!

I can see where this heli is not going to have an extremely long flight time...at least it doesn't seem like it at this point...just hovering it, and playing around, it seemed like it flew maybe 5 mins or so, and it was kinda low on fuel...but it's hard to say yet, I'll know better once I get it all figured out...

I'll bet the .30 is alot easier on fuel. If I wanted, I have everything to convert this back to a .30, with parts to spare....I could almost just build a .30!! I've got frames, blades, tail booms, belts, engine mounts, landing gear, all kinds of stuff....but the electronics, of course, would be the killer...as always!

Hope your weather is better than they are calling for. I really want to fly this weekend...playing with the Raptor is fun, but I'm not getting much flying in!!

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

I checked the weather for Saturday and it is supposed to rain have have 20MPH winds. I should have my screws by then, so least I can work on the 540. You should bring another heli, so you can work on the Raptor and fly.

Nick

JPEE

Nick,

WTHF was I thinking writing all of the text about a balance lead being unsoldered and that having an effect on the heli. I was tied I guess. Now 9:00 here in Calif I read your your post think HOW STUPID am I?? Still the other stuff was critcal in that chekcing every cell in each pack.

Sorry the screws did not hit you today and..........sound like you will inside the house this weekend staying warm and dry.



Glenn,

Clearly you made some progress on the 50/600. I agree, why straighten a shaft, overall it is cheaper to buy one rather expend all of that labor to MAYBE find you can't get it true enough to use. Good luck.


JPEE

HeliStyle

My Feedback: (2)

Got a dx6i today

thing as sooo much easier then all those other radios I had lol

rotarydoc

Heli,

Cool on the DX6i....yeah, they are nice radios, for sure, esp for the price..

Couple of pointers/suggestions if I may...

Check it for the recall...

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Articles/A...ArticleID=1901

And, when you are using the roller, when pressing in to select stuff, press on the top part of the roller wheel...it's stronger, the lower part is the part that sometimes breaks on the roller...have not had this happen to me, but read about it a few times...

How's the build coming along??

Got any pics for us yet??

Glenn

evdreamer

Guys,

I got my hardware and my hex driver today. The new driver has made it much easier to assemble parts. I put the next section together and going to work on the battery tray. Once I got that installed I will take some more pics.

evdreamer

Here is the next part. I might get started on the landing gear today, but probably won't finish it till tomorrow. That pretty much covers the cabin and the rudder/elevator section is all thats left.

rotarydoc

Nick,

Glad your hardware and driver came in....looks like you are making great progress in the build!

Having the correct tools for the job can make all the difference! I went through a tool buying spree there for a while, but it's always nice to have the correct and quality tool there when you need it...

I got the dial indicator today, and found the mainshaft is in fact bent slightly....about .006 to .007....which is probably enough to cause the issue, I would think since the tolerance is about .001 on a mainshaft...

The indicator works great, and it was a steal at the price that HF gets for it...check the pics, even has a nicely finished wooden case! Highly recommended!

I called my LHS that is pretty heli oriented..and they didn't have one....so I checked online, and both Readiheli and Heli Direct have them...big price difference though, $6.99 at readi, and $9.69 at Heli Direct...

Then, like a dummy, I finally realized that I have a whole box of parts that the guy gave me with the heli, which I have only really glanced at...and sure enough, I've got THREE extra mainshafts, and 5 extra feathering shafts for this heli!

So, tomorrow, I'll have a little project for the hot part of the afternoon....and take it for a test later on...

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

I got most of my landing gear mount finished. I just have to attach it to the frame. I also test fitted the canopy and it fits as well.

That is cool that you got the dial indicator and could see the mainshaft is bent. I will be curious to see if the shaking is gone after you install a new mainshaft.

Good to hear you won't have to wait for a new mainshaft to come.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

Sounds like your project is coming along well...I hope it doesn't take until winter like you were thinking...

Yeah, me too on the shaking... .006 doesn't seem like a lot for a mainshaft of that size to be bent, but I guess I'll find out soon enough...as bad as the shake is, I'll be kinda surprised if that takes care of it, but I have to start somewhere. If you saw it shake, you'd probably either shake your head, or run...one or the other...lol! [X(]

We'll see.

Good luck on the rest of the project...

Glenn

JPEE

Hey Guys,

Helistyle ....congrats on the DX6i, you will love it!


Nick, the fuselage looks super! I can see a lot of work there up this point.


Glenn, I go t a bit confused as I do. The price for the DIAL between the heli store I got. But by seeing the label it is marked a HF item right? It sure does the job. Good luck and like Nick, I am looking forward to your results from a test hover or flight.

My parts arrived from RediHeli late yesterday so I jumped to get the 500 back in the air. I replaced the anti rotation post, canopy posts and landing gear. BTW they make steel/aluminum replacement posts and anti rotation support. I also looked into metal or unbreakable landing gear but found nothing worthy. Then I went back to basic thinking, when these parts break they absorbing the crash energy. If I do metal upgrades then I might break or crack my frame OH NO! I don't want that. So I wen back to all stock stuff. I mean I dont crash the 500 like 400's a I take chances with. Back to the 500, I installed her packs and went outside for a low spool up to see if the main shaft was bent. But first I started with my pre flight checking of the heli as I did the bench pre-flight already. While moving the swash, it worked, tail rotor AOK. Then I started the motor and she looked good as far as a bent main shaft and then I heard it..........a servo making noise so I hit TH. I went over and move the cyclic 360 degree over and over and then nothing! I moved the throttle up and did the same. Then I shut down the thottle and move the cyclic again buzzzzzzzz went the gears. What I found is the pitch gears are stripped only when the arm is down and at closed throttle, how freaky is that? So later today after stuff we have to do I'll rebuild that servo and try a lift off again. I have also moved my tail servo on the boom to try and see if I can get some loose tail out. Like you when I built the 500 I did it to Finless's spec. But considering I have taken the gyro to 95 and it is still loose I am willing to try anything now. So I worked had on the linkage rood tomake sure it remains stright suring its sliding and I set the servo down like the 400 to see will happen. Heck it can't hurt at this point.

JPEE

evdreamer

JPEE,

Cool to hear you got your parts, but sorry about the gears. I bet you are glad you checked the servos and didn't fly after you heard the buzz.

Nick

evdreamer

Here is the finished front end with the landing gear mount.

rotarydoc

Nick,

Looks good!

You are getting there for sure!

You are having a better day than me, that's for sure...I took the mainshaft out of the Raptor, and rolled it on a glass table, and could not see any runout or signs of being bent. I put a new one in anyways, and dial indicated it, and it was very true, maybe .001, or nothing, so the shaft was very slightly bent...but not enough to make it do that...

I spooled it up (well, tried to, stalled at half throttle twice, had to tweek the mixture a bit), and it has the same basic vibration as before...

I played around with it some more, and richened it way up, so it was making little power, and it does not do it like that, but I think that is because the headspeed is so low...

Then I slowly leaned it again, and corrected the tracking, which was quite a bit off...and that seemed to help alot.

It's strange. It won't do it once it lifts off the ground, in a hover, it's fine...but I was looking at it again as it was getting low on fuel...and got close to it, at about 1/4 throttle, blades turning pretty slow, it has a vibration there that shakes the entire heli, though not violently like at higher speeds, it just looks like something is either bent, or out of balance..I can't tell which...

Back to the drawing board.

I flew the B400....what a TREAT!!!!! Just plug the thing in, and GO FLYING!! What a great concept!!

I had the most fun I've had in a week in that 6 minutes...LOL...

But, then when it came time for B400 #2, my stock one....more bad news....went to fly it, powered the TX up, and plugged the battery wire in...and NOTHING. Dead...

Grabbed another pack...same thing. Not sure what's up there...no light at all on the AR6100...I guess maybe the stock ESC took a dump...gotta look into that next...

I am going to look at the basics on the Raptor again, blade balance, and check the feathering shaft, since I have not checked it yet...

Not a great day, but not a total loss either...I know it's NOT the mainshaft, at least...lol..

Glenn

rotarydoc

Nick,

May have found something...I was checking the feathering shaft, by turning one end, and I do get some movement in the blade grips up and down, so that is coming apart, as soon as I figure out how...lol...

It's a bit different, for sure...it's got theaded shafts at each end, with locknuts...and a bit different thrust bearing arrangement, but it's all basicallyt the same...

I'll let ya know what I find out...

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Now I am starting to get close. There is only little sections now. Then I can make the final designs on CAD.

Sorry to hear about the Raptor.

I wonder if the engine and clutch assembly have anything to do with the shaking, like its out of balance or not aligned right.

Least you had fun with your B400.

You can take your Voltmeter on the black and red wires on the throttle connector and see if you are getting anything out of that.

Nick

evdreamer

Glenn,

Hope that fixes your problem. It sounds a lot like how my spindle was on my Belt CP, since that used locknuts also.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

I found it! The feathering shaft is definitely bent...just got it out...WHEW!!!

That would explain most everything...I've got like 5 new ones here, so I should be good to go...

Man, I love working on this thing!!! The mainshaft was a piece of cake...and this head/thrust/blade grip assembly is awesome...the bearings, thrust bearings, races, all that stuff are all held in the blade grip by a couple of self tapping screws...so everything stay together...sooo SWEET!!

Super fast, easy feathering shaft swap like that!

I'll sleep better tonight!!

Yeah, I'll check the voltage at the throttle connector, when I get to that project!!

Thanks,

Glenn

JPEE

Nick,

Great progress on the plane. For me it taking its size now. That will be one big plane when your done. Keep up the work!


Glenn,

It is a good thing we/you have patients. The Raptor could drive you nuts otherwise. The bright side is, at least you got a new tool. I really being a wrencher for a living is a very valuable aset in this hobby. Sorry to hear about the 400. I just can't believe its ESC is gone. There has to be something else.


Well my day has been like yours. I let you guys know I got my 500 parts and I woek long hours last night to finish the rebuild and do the test flight an noticed the servo was gone. I have been gone most of the day so tonight I rebuilt the servo. Went out back and the tail wont hold. I looked and saw the rx was blinking. So I re bound her and that took care of that. Next probelm, the heli came up but then started to spin. Remember I noted earlier I relocated the tail servo to hand the like the 400. So with that said, I thought ok that won't work so I put it back to were I think it should be and tried again. I got a hover of 12" then move the tail left to right..ok. Then a little more throttle and then the tail brok loose and the heli got a little wild so I set her down. Somethings wrong but I dont know what. My 401's red light is on and only flickers when I input, just like the 400-1. So its getting late and I am tired and dissappointed. It wont be until Tuesday before I can look into it.

Erik and I are doing our funfly tomorrow at 6:00 a.m............we are sleeping in LOL so I'll fly my 400-1, 600, and T-28

EDIT........................GLENN, congradulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
JPEE

evdreamer

Glenn,

That is cool you found the problem and that the Raptor is easy to work on.

JPEE,

Hope the 500 starts working again. Have fun flying tomorrow.

Nick