J-MICHAEL

Oh yeah Glenn, I didn't know anything about the Trex 450 Sport model either until Ivan enlighted me on the matter.... So sweet... I would want to go for the kit version since I already have good electronics to throw in her. It will only be then about $325.00 for the kit... [8D]

evdreamer

Ivan,

But you wouldn't be using anywhere near 700W in a 450 sized heli. The motor will only use what it needs. So say you are only using 35A on a 3S setup at 389W, you would probably only use 26A on a 4S setup and still be using the same power at 389W. Having efficient electronics is sometimes better than having more power. If you waste more power as heat then less gets used by the motor to do work. I think my 450 motor is rated around 500W, but I only need to use 211W of it.

Glenn,

Sorry you missed that fun fly.

Jeff,

That must be just a 500 thing with the Scorpion motors, because I have close to 200 flights on my 450 Scorpion motor without needing new bearings.

Nick

J-MICHAEL

Nick ~

I believe so also.... I got a lot of runs also on my -6 Scorpion and she's still going strong in fact... I've been up all night and researching power systems for the 450 and the 500 on Helifreak.....!! Massive input....LMAO... I got my Hacker motor all apart also, found me some new bearings for my T-500 Scorpion motor from some RC-Car bearings I had that are new that will fit. Looking up to see what a 14t on 6s will do with the 1600kv T-500 motor... 8s set-ups for the 500, 6s set-ups for the 450 with Scorpions new motor for the 450.... You name it... LMAO... Its great to be addicted and not having to work today.... Sigh....

Oh.... Here was my T-500's bearings going bad... Ok, back to the Freak ! [8D]

Only a 1 minute jobber :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtxRbw1zFDM



Cheers,

~ Jeff

J-MICHAEL

Nick ~

I love this Scorpion motor below... Its 5 watts more than our -6 Scorpion (530 watts), but only draws 25 amps max cont current... A 6s set-up motor...Hmmmm.... I would love to try this on the belt driven new Trex 450 Sport model !



http://www.helidirect.com/scorpion-h...450-p-9783.hdx


I forgot, but I need to research again of what my T-500's torque tube set-up can handle as far as the RPM's go.... I thought it was only a smidgen above 3k but can't remember... Some guys on Helifreak are running up to 3100 RPM's I know like Fireup... The video is sick... [8D]

But yeah the 500's Scorpion motors are horrible I guess after doing some research as far as the bearings go... . I'am glad our 450's Scorpion motors seem to be ok as others also reported them being good to go also...

J-MICHAEL

Here is the specs for the new Trex 450 Pro motor :


The 450M motor features shelter-less design to create the advantages of heat release and low temperature variant. The extended diameter for the rotor make it even more efficiency and high torque output.
The 450M motor armature had a special balance adjust to improve the serious shaking problem that other tiny motors have.
Maintenance free, high torque, high efficiency, low temperature variant, stable and quiet.
Japanese made high-speed ball bearings, powerful magnets, out runner motor.



Specs:
- Input voltageC7.4-14.8V 2-4cell Li-Po
- Max continuous current:39A
- Max output power:Approx. 400w
- KV value:3500KV
- Dimension:spindle 3.5x28x37.5mm
- Weight:Approx. 76g
Accessories:
- Socket button head screw(M2.6X6mm)X2
- Washer(F2.6XF5.8X0.6mm)X2
- ALIGN standard 3mm gilt terminal x 3set(MAX 50A)

evdreamer

Jeff,

What exactly happend to the bearing because I am curious? Did it lock up or was it something else?

Guys,

It doesn't look like I will be flying this week either. It is supposed to rain or snow the rest of the week.[&o]

Some better news is I got my LVC to work on my ESC. It isn't a soft cut off yet and it just shuts the motor off right away.

Nick

9sec240

Glenn, I am two days into this heli now and have had a cyclic servo fail to initialize three times now.. and had the tail servo fail to initialize three times now. Today after work I tossed a pack in and had the ELE servo fail to initialize. A quick reset and it was good to go. The second pack was cut short due to a jerk in the motor or tail.. It happened twice during FFF and I landed to inspect.. found nothing wrong so I took off again and it happened a third time. I landed and inspected again... switched packs and flew the third pack with no issues. This is pretty weird........

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Wow, that 450 sport is lookin' pretty good! I didn't know they made that...have to keep that in mind, for sure!

Would be a huge step up from these B400's...

Nick,

Sorry to hear about your weather....and that "S" word...[X(]

Hope the weaterman is wrong...

Glad to hear you have made some progress on the ESC...sounds like a good start on the LVC...

Ivan,

What heli are you referring to? Did you get a 450 Pro??

That does sound weird...if it is the 450 Pro, I have heard of guys having issues with the DS 410's...mine have all been good...keeping my fingers crossed for sure...

Well, I got to fly today....the weather is gorgeous, but windy/breezy...

I figured out that if I can get out of work by 5, I can pack up and hit the baseball field for about half an hour before the little guys show up for their DAILY PRACTICE...lol!

So I got a couple of flights in...so far, so good on the B400 with the HD cheapie blades...it's doing fine...so I'm just gonna leave it alone...and just fly it...it's not perfect, but I don't care, as long as it flies and stays together...I got a little gem, the 450 Pro that IS nearly perfect !!

Ivan,

Those blades are the Helidirect FRP glass/fiber jobs...they are $6.30 a set...can't recall the part number, but they are in the "other blades" section....something I didn't realize...I got the 325 mm ones...and they are a tad bit shorter than the stock B400 ones...I guess B400 blades are closer to 335 mm....or these are short...haven't measured yet...no biggie, just figured I'd note that...

Glenn

JPEE

Hey Nick, congratulations on the LVC working. You'll bug that cut rather thanstep down I faster than you think.

JPEE

rotarydoc

Guys,

Forgot to mention...Phoenix added a few new models...today's is the Belt CP...lol...it's not bad, esp the V2/3D model...

Other new ones are the Beam E4, and Avant Aurora....nice selection of helis for sure! The Rave 450 is a blast, and Jeff, the Logo 500/550 thing is amazing, the hi-perf version is sick!!

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Cool to hear you got to fly today and that the fiberglass blades are working out.

Nick

9sec240

Glenn.. yeah, I got a Pro Super Combo... and I have the servo issues.

J-MICHAEL

Nick ~

It appears to be just the one bearing that is out in the picture below of the Scorpion motor. The bearing was very notchy and the tolerances seemed loose where the shaft of the Scorpion motor would slide through the inner race of the bearing. I've heard of others on HeliFreak say that Scorpion also uses soft shafts, but can be upgraded to better ones. The funny thing though from the video, in which I was "fishing for" was to see if anyone noticed not only the noisy bearing, but upon slightly spooling back up kinda toward the end it appeared that something was still "slipping" and not catching to engage the main blades again. Typical situation "or feel" as if your pinion would be loose or slipping so to speak....

That wasn't the case though.... The pinion was tight and very snug still on the shaft, and no scars on the shaft... I use stainless steel grub screws and there tight... Ok, so last night I watch a quick little video of how you change out your bearings from a gent with the Scorpion motors... Oooooh, I notice that I may have found out where that slipping came from then... A loose shaft in the Scorpion motor which is held by those little grub screws as you know.... Checked that, and nope.... Still tight... So just kinda weird.... Yeah the bearing is completely shot, but it doesn't still account for the slipping toward the end of my video clip, in which nobody noticed but you I think, and that's why I think you were inquiring upon the matter.

Here is a good video of the Scorpion motor components and how to replace there bearings and shaft :



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpTY5v0L9g&NR=1

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVpTY5v0L9g&NR=1[/youtube]


There was nothing else changed on the heli, from when I swapped out the Scorpion motor, and then directly putting in the stock Align 500L motor... And then my last flight with my first barrel rolls with the heli showed everything is still good to go with the heli with the stock motor in there. The problem still rests somewhere within the Scorpion motor. I may throw the Scorpion motor back on tonight for the T-500 and maybe tomorrow A.M. before work, I'll just go to the field really quick to just do a quick spool-up to see what the hek ?? ! Just odd is all...

I really like the Scorpion motors, and I love that they stay so cool when your done with a flight, but like others have said there bearing issue for the 500 size heli's is the worse yet. Supposively, according to some recent threads on HeliFreak Scorpion just recently switched bearing suppliers due to there decrease in sales from there poor bearings they've had in the past in there motors... So we'll see I suppose...

There are some pics of my Hacker motor, which is the same shaft size as the Scorpion motor, and you can see there bearings look and feel much better as far as the quality goes. Some on there Trex 500's will even just use the motors from the Trex 600 like the L and XL motors since the shafts are the same size, but the motor being a bit bigger....

I've been to busy to really tinker around with the motor to much as I'll be getting into some of my river fishing here soon on the 16th for some salmon fishing, so hopefully soon I can find out about that issue...

Hope your weather gets better for you.... But snow already...?? Dang ! [&:]



Take care Nick,

~ Jeff

J-MICHAEL

RCU's pic uploader wasn't cooperating... Here was a closer shot of the Hacker motor :

J-MICHAEL

Glenn ~

I know I hear ya on the Sport model for the T-450 Pro.... I want one ! I like the kit version among that for just a smidge over $300.00 just because I want to install my own components, not the ones picked and supplied by someone else.... I like to use what has worked for me, and piecing it accordingly to my tastes. I never did prefer those "combo" deals out there as far as there picks on the components that's for sure.

Its not a bad deal either for the kit form if ya think about it ?? Most guys already have components anyway to throw into one... Like you even with maybe one of them B-400's that you need to retire mister !! Hint, hint, wink, wink...... [8D]

Cool on the new models for the Phoenix sim... [8D]

rotarydoc

Jeff,

Yeah, that might be a consideration for next spring...I think I'm just going to ride out the rest of this year's flying with the B400's...before long, it'll be freezing cold, and sooo difficult to fly for very long...

That would work out great, although I think my Efite 40 amp ESC might be on it's way out...it keeps shutting down on spool up....it's been doing that more and more....but it continues to fly OK once it's "set" so to speak...so far at least...

Oh, the 500's Align ESC gave me no problems the other day....with the restart with blades still in motion, like on that horrible Monday when everything went wrong...seems fine now..

Yeah, I have to agree on the package deals....great buy, but the components seem questionable sometimes...like my 500 servo issue, and now it looks like Ivan might have an issue as well...

Ivan,

Hope you can get it nailed down soon, that has to be frustrating on a brand new heli...I went through something similar with my Align DS 510's on the 500 ESP....don't know if you ever saw that or not...it more or less straightened itself out...has been OK since...

If you need warranty assistance on Align stuff, I can steer you in the right direction, having been through it with the motor if you need....

Glenn

J-MICHAEL

So I installed the new bearing on the 1600 kv Scorpion motor... It drove me nuts because the new bearing would be smooth and free, but upon installing it in the motor, it then would be notchy and felt like it was being crimped as I tried two different new bearings there... Hek, so come to find out, its because some had to "file" a small portion of where the bearing has to go because they were having the same problem...

One guy stated this :


" I had a problem with rear bearing too. After about 5-7 flights Scorpion 1600 started producing "bad bearings" sounds.

Turned out rear bearing was notchy. When I replace it with the new one, I mentioned that new one was not smooth too. Well, after a bit further investigation it turned out that place/socket for the rear bearing was too tight and a bit oval. So bearing got compressed beyond tolerances and definitely would be destroyed at high rpm in no time.

When I pressed bearing out it was smooth again.

So, I filed motor out a bit in order to enlarge bearing placeholder, then glue bearing in and now it's running Ok for 80 flights. "



Hek I feel lucky my 1600 motor lasted almost to 30 flights, as some guys there's only lasted a couple flights ! YIKES.... [&:]


http://www.helifreak.com/showthread....+1600kv+6s+15t


Driving me mad ! Anyhoo, its colder than hek out and about 35 degrees, but I'am gonna hit the field just for a quicky spool-up when it gets light outside in another hour and a half (5:00 A.M. now)... I'am going to run one of my 5s TP 3300 mah 25c batts with the 15t on just to keep things calm instead of the 6s for now for the test... So I think once I do get some Boca ceramics, file that hole out a very tiny smidge, I should be good to go for a better life with this Scorpion motor for the T-500... So glad my -6 for the 450 has been trouble free. That particular Scorpion motor has been doing just great and troublefree thank goodness !

9sec240

The info would be nice. I am going to try to figure out what is up with this. Thanks.

J-MICHAEL

Ivan ~

Until Glenn comes onboard, here was his situation he had with his servo's on the T-500 which may be similar to yours on the T-450 Pro....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcKNJ...er_profilepage

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcKNJYFXGiM&feature=player_profilepage[/youtube]

9sec240

Jeff, to me, that looks like the heli needs to be rebound to redetermine initialization points of the servo. When you first apply power to the RX, it need to know what to do with the servos until it makes contact with the TX. It automatically puts the servos in the position they were when the TX and RX were bound. Reversing servos or changing polarity of the swash mix after the bind will make the servos do funky things during initialization.

My issue is quite different. One servo will not work at all... you can move it freely by hand as if it is unplugged. Simply unplugging the battery and plugging it back in allows it to work again.

J-MICHAEL

Ivan ~

I'am pretty certain he tried rebinding as you also stated and all the others on the comment section of his You-Tube video... Page 115 tells of his progress some. Yeah, your situation sounds familiar like I had that issue once, but I can't place it in memory... Dang it... [&:] I think Glenn stated that Horizon wouldn't cover his servo's under warranty, but would the helicopter for his Trex 500 combo package... Yet another reason why I don't go the "Combo" route. More expensive in the long-run sometimes...

Keep us posted what ya find out, as I'am curious...

9sec240

I started reading Glenn's posts at 115 and went for a bunch of pages but never got to a conclusion. Anyway, it looks as if he did try a rebind and it did not help.

After watching the video again, I see that servo going to three different positions. One position when the power is hooked up, another when the RX commands the servo to "home" position, and the last once the TX is finally telling the servo where to go. Quite odd for sure. You can see in the video that it finds "home" at the same time as the ELE servo.

HeliStyle

My Feedback: (2)

hey guys, how is everything?

haven't been on for about a week, started my new job so its hard to get on here, working 2:30am - 1:30am, and pretty much sleep when I get home, not sure why I am not sleeping now lol

Haven't really flown helicopters much, just alittle, been flying the plane alot more. My next door neighbor was kind enough to let me fly in there back field which is huge, prob like 5-6 acres cleared

what has everyone else been up to?

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Man, I feel like I need to come to the rescue!! LOL

On the 500 servo issue...it basically resolved itself....I have NO idea why, or how...it simply does not do that anymore, hasn't for quite some time...and yeah, I bound, rebound, and rebound some more....lol...still have no resolution for ya!! It just works...

Ivan, your issue does sound alot different...I have no idea what to tell you on that, my DS 410's have been good to me so far...I think somewhere I read that Finless was saying to watch the mounting hardware positions, and torque on the fasteners, evidently some guys were having servo case distortion issues, causing some problems...just skimmed over that a while back...not sure what the end of the story ever was...

As for Align's warranty service, it was pretty good, once I figured it all out...not as user friendly as Horizon AT ALL...but the guy I dealt with was decent, and did resolve my issue promptly, once I took the correct avenues...

First, you have to get in touch with someone at Assurance RC in CA...

http://www.alignrcusa.com/


HMMMMM....this site has changed somewhat since I was last there....the contact info is in TINY LITTLE LETTERS on the right hand side pane there.....lol...

Click that, and give them a call....in my case, I had to FIRST verify that I bought my 450 Pro at an authorized Align distributor, which I did (Hobby Hangar in VA)

Once that was out of the way, I had to FAX a copy of my receipt to them....then call back, to get an RMA number, and the address to send it to...in CA, at my expense, of course...

Once that was done, I didn't hear a thing, until the motor showed up about 2 weeks later....

But, I did get a brand new motor, no questions asked....once every little detail met their requirments...

Let us know how it works out, and what you find...you know I am interested!

Glenn

rotarydoc

Hey heli,

Great to hear from ya....congrats on the new job (I suppose?)...man, those are LONNGGG hours...lol...23 hour days!! LOL, I'm sure you meant until 1:30 PM....you MUST be tired!!

Cool on flying the plane in the open spaces...sounds relaxing...for sure...how's the MSR, is it OK? I need to fly mine some more, only maidened it on that first day in the shop....it's all good, plenty of cold dark winter days ahead before long...

Not too much new here with me...just trying not to pull any more hair out over this B400....finally got it flying pretty decent again...I THINK...

How's everything else, still going to school?

How's the Honda, still runnin'?

Still working at the LHS as well?

Take care,

Glenn