Skygate/CARF Viperjet
#76
Member
My Feedback: (25)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: fort Lauderdale,
FL
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
I have a flash that use the carbon bell mount, but since this OD tube fits perfectly on the by pass I imagine this set up is just like a BVM /Bandit where the tube is screwed on the by pass and just touch the fuse on the rear end.
But I have now ideia about the size difference
But I have now ideia about the size difference
#79
My Feedback: (92)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
Peter
You are correct about design changes. I received an email from Andreas Gietz last night indicating that the pipe was intended to rest on the rear edge of the fuse and that the partial bypass should be pushed back 8 cm to get the aft end of the pipe to the end of the tail cone.
He also sent me some photos of a completed Viper - they helped quite a bit in sorting things out. The black rings I was curious about are meant to be stacked one on top of another to make a vertical holder for the JetCat fuel filter and Ricardo was correct about the mounts for the hopper and fuel tanks.
The rings to hold the pipe at the tail are no longer provided. I have seen what pipe temperatures do to an Ultralightning tail cone so I will try to make my own support rings. I have a CNC router which should do the job.
I appreciated the photos and info Andreas provided, it will allow me to move forward with my build. Unfortunately, the main theme was to deride me for forwarding his email about the wing repair kit. His email indicated that he has been following the threads about the viper. You can draw your own conclusions about why he chose not to chime in to help us or post more info on the CARF web site despite multiple threads over many months reporting worldwide frustration with the absence of an assembly manual. He did indicate that an assembly manual was forthcoming sometime in the not near future.
Phil
You are correct about design changes. I received an email from Andreas Gietz last night indicating that the pipe was intended to rest on the rear edge of the fuse and that the partial bypass should be pushed back 8 cm to get the aft end of the pipe to the end of the tail cone.
He also sent me some photos of a completed Viper - they helped quite a bit in sorting things out. The black rings I was curious about are meant to be stacked one on top of another to make a vertical holder for the JetCat fuel filter and Ricardo was correct about the mounts for the hopper and fuel tanks.
The rings to hold the pipe at the tail are no longer provided. I have seen what pipe temperatures do to an Ultralightning tail cone so I will try to make my own support rings. I have a CNC router which should do the job.
I appreciated the photos and info Andreas provided, it will allow me to move forward with my build. Unfortunately, the main theme was to deride me for forwarding his email about the wing repair kit. His email indicated that he has been following the threads about the viper. You can draw your own conclusions about why he chose not to chime in to help us or post more info on the CARF web site despite multiple threads over many months reporting worldwide frustration with the absence of an assembly manual. He did indicate that an assembly manual was forthcoming sometime in the not near future.
Phil
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Horsham, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
Phil
Please post the photos from Andreas. I am struggling a little but did manage to work out the tail pipe situation. It really is odd that they won't make more information available. Ok the manual is some way off (we can argue about whether that is acceptable) but a few photos really help!
Please post the photos from Andreas. I am struggling a little but did manage to work out the tail pipe situation. It really is odd that they won't make more information available. Ok the manual is some way off (we can argue about whether that is acceptable) but a few photos really help!
#84
My Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mississauga,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
ORIGINAL: 1ricardo
Mean while did any one install the stab servo? Should I brake the first rib in order to get access to the servo base?
Mean while did any one install the stab servo? Should I brake the first rib in order to get access to the servo base?
<br type="_moz" />
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Horsham, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
Phil
Sorry for the delay but here is a photo of my turbine installation. Pretty straightforward after I had looked at it for a while. I beefed up the engine bearers and narrowed the gap slightly so my P160SX fits. The position of the bell mouth is dictated by the thrust tube ending up flush with the tail cone. Mine is about 8cm back from the forward former. If you have a JetCat you will also need to mount the engine 'upside down' i.e. retaining strap lowermost. I also needed to drill 2 extra mounting holes as the rear ones ended up behind the rear bulkhead! Hope the photo makes it obvious.
Sorry for the delay but here is a photo of my turbine installation. Pretty straightforward after I had looked at it for a while. I beefed up the engine bearers and narrowed the gap slightly so my P160SX fits. The position of the bell mouth is dictated by the thrust tube ending up flush with the tail cone. Mine is about 8cm back from the forward former. If you have a JetCat you will also need to mount the engine 'upside down' i.e. retaining strap lowermost. I also needed to drill 2 extra mounting holes as the rear ones ended up behind the rear bulkhead! Hope the photo makes it obvious.
#86
My Feedback: (92)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
Andy
I came up with a similar install method for my P160sx. I pushed the carbon housing back approx 7cm until it wedged into the tail cone. I attached the tail cone to the pipe with 3, 3mm bolts (see photo)
I made mounting plates that sit under the Jetcat engine holder (see photo). These plates stiffen up the entire setup plus they allowed me to bolt into the center of the plane's engine mount instead of the edge like you have done. The Skygate version used a similar method. My turbine is upright and still sits low in the bell so I will make another plate to raise it up a couple more mm.
The odd part is that this plane was designed for the P160 - I am surprised that the gap between the engine mounting plates was too wide to fit the P160 without modification, I guess its an accommodation for multiple turbine manufacturers.
Phil
I came up with a similar install method for my P160sx. I pushed the carbon housing back approx 7cm until it wedged into the tail cone. I attached the tail cone to the pipe with 3, 3mm bolts (see photo)
I made mounting plates that sit under the Jetcat engine holder (see photo). These plates stiffen up the entire setup plus they allowed me to bolt into the center of the plane's engine mount instead of the edge like you have done. The Skygate version used a similar method. My turbine is upright and still sits low in the bell so I will make another plate to raise it up a couple more mm.
The odd part is that this plane was designed for the P160 - I am surprised that the gap between the engine mounting plates was too wide to fit the P160 without modification, I guess its an accommodation for multiple turbine manufacturers.
Phil
#87
My Feedback: (92)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
I have finished my elevator servo installation and thought I should post some photos.
I used JR 8411's - the thickness of the horizontal stab is a little too small to fit 8711's or 8611a's without deforming the skin of the horizontal stab. I am hoping that 155oz of torque will be enough, this is where a manual or someone at CARF to talk with would be great to see if this is enough torque. Getting the 8411's to sit flush with the mounting plate required cleaning out excess epoxy from the joint between the servo mounting plate and the underside of the skin. I used a small router bit in a Dremel flex shaft to carefully remove the excess epoxy while carefully avoiding the foam core on the undersurface of the skin. Finding a path for the servo wire required a bit of thought - I couldn't see away to get it around either of the tube sockets so I routed a thin slot into the mounting plate (see photo).
Be careful cutting the linkage slot - there is a line scribed into the skin on the stab surface but it is not where it needs to be - it was 3mm too far inboard on my stab.
I used 1" SWB servo arms for clevis - they permit more than enough throw.
Phil
I used JR 8411's - the thickness of the horizontal stab is a little too small to fit 8711's or 8611a's without deforming the skin of the horizontal stab. I am hoping that 155oz of torque will be enough, this is where a manual or someone at CARF to talk with would be great to see if this is enough torque. Getting the 8411's to sit flush with the mounting plate required cleaning out excess epoxy from the joint between the servo mounting plate and the underside of the skin. I used a small router bit in a Dremel flex shaft to carefully remove the excess epoxy while carefully avoiding the foam core on the undersurface of the skin. Finding a path for the servo wire required a bit of thought - I couldn't see away to get it around either of the tube sockets so I routed a thin slot into the mounting plate (see photo).
Be careful cutting the linkage slot - there is a line scribed into the skin on the stab surface but it is not where it needs to be - it was 3mm too far inboard on my stab.
I used 1" SWB servo arms for clevis - they permit more than enough throw.
Phil
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: rishon lezion, ISRAEL
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
Hi guys
please posts more and more pictures of this built
i am expacting my VIPER in about 3 weeks and i will use all your post
thank you
best
please posts more and more pictures of this built
i am expacting my VIPER in about 3 weeks and i will use all your post
thank you
best
#91
My Feedback: (30)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
ORIGINAL: pfact
I have finished my elevator servo installation and thought I should post some photos.
I used JR 8411's - the thickness of the horizontal stab is a little too small to fit 8711's or 8611a's without deforming the skin of the horizontal stab. I am hoping that 155oz of torque will be enough, this is where a manual or someone at CARF to talk with would be great to see if this is enough torque. Getting the 8411's to sit flush with the mounting plate required cleaning out excess epoxy from the joint between the servo mounting plate and the underside of the skin. I used a small router bit in a Dremel flex shaft to carefully remove the excess epoxy while carefully avoiding the foam core on the undersurface of the skin. Finding a path for the servo wire required a bit of thought - I couldn't see away to get it around either of the tube sockets so I routed a thin slot into the mounting plate (see photo).
Be careful cutting the linkage slot - there is a line scribed into the skin on the stab surface but it is not where it needs to be - it was 3mm too far inboard on my stab.
I used 1'' SWB servo arms for clevis - they permit more than enough throw.
Phil
I have finished my elevator servo installation and thought I should post some photos.
I used JR 8411's - the thickness of the horizontal stab is a little too small to fit 8711's or 8611a's without deforming the skin of the horizontal stab. I am hoping that 155oz of torque will be enough, this is where a manual or someone at CARF to talk with would be great to see if this is enough torque. Getting the 8411's to sit flush with the mounting plate required cleaning out excess epoxy from the joint between the servo mounting plate and the underside of the skin. I used a small router bit in a Dremel flex shaft to carefully remove the excess epoxy while carefully avoiding the foam core on the undersurface of the skin. Finding a path for the servo wire required a bit of thought - I couldn't see away to get it around either of the tube sockets so I routed a thin slot into the mounting plate (see photo).
Be careful cutting the linkage slot - there is a line scribed into the skin on the stab surface but it is not where it needs to be - it was 3mm too far inboard on my stab.
I used 1'' SWB servo arms for clevis - they permit more than enough throw.
Phil
Phil,
Please update as many pictures as you can. My Viper will be here in 2 weeks and I ordered JR8711 for all the surfaces two days ago with my local hobby shop, guess have to revise my servo order. Will 8711 fit rudder, ailerons, and flaps?
Thanks of all your pictures, this will be a great help when I start mine.
Asif
#95
My Feedback: (30)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
ORIGINAL: pfact
Asif
You will need mounting hardware for the aileron servos. I am using aluminum servo brackets that I bought from Dramworks. they with only a little modification to the opening in the wing.
Phil
Asif
You will need mounting hardware for the aileron servos. I am using aluminum servo brackets that I bought from Dramworks. they with only a little modification to the opening in the wing.
Phil
Can you please post some pictures. What about
Flaps, how is the servos mounted. Should I get that too from dreamworks or it's
Included in the kit?
Thanks
Asif
#97
My Feedback: (92)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
HI guys,
I got a little more done on my VIper.
I installed the wing reinforcement kit from CARF - the instructions were great and other than it being a bit messy wasn't very hard.
The aileron servo installation is pretty straight forward. I used aluminum mounts that I bought from Dreamworks (first photo), 8711 servos, and SWB 1" double lock control arms for clevis. I attached the mounts to the cover plate with 4, 3mm button head screws and nylock nuts (second photo). I had to trim the lip of the opening in the wing a bit to get the servo mounts to fit but they make for a secure, clean installation. CARF did a nice job of including a reinforcement plate under the wing opening which makes for a very secure attachment for the cover plate. Note that I didn't use the rubber grommets in the servos to reduce the risk of flutter, ala BVM. I used a 6mm titanium turnbuckle to connect the servo to the aileron control horns, a 55mm one would have been ideal. I received wooden servo mounts with the wing reinforcement kit that CARF sent out but they arrived a day too late - if I had had them I would have used them instead.
I also tackled the flap servo installation. Servo mounting is easy if you have a long enough screw driver. I used an untrimmed JR nylon servo horn and the shorter of the 2, 3mm push rods in the wing hardware bag. It just skims along the upper skin of the wing without distorting it. The opening for the flap push rod was 3mm too far inboard to line up with the servo horn if a clevis is used so I widened it a little to keep the push rod from rubbing on the aft wing plate. Other than that flap installation was simple.
Next up is the rudder
Phil
I got a little more done on my VIper.
I installed the wing reinforcement kit from CARF - the instructions were great and other than it being a bit messy wasn't very hard.
The aileron servo installation is pretty straight forward. I used aluminum mounts that I bought from Dreamworks (first photo), 8711 servos, and SWB 1" double lock control arms for clevis. I attached the mounts to the cover plate with 4, 3mm button head screws and nylock nuts (second photo). I had to trim the lip of the opening in the wing a bit to get the servo mounts to fit but they make for a secure, clean installation. CARF did a nice job of including a reinforcement plate under the wing opening which makes for a very secure attachment for the cover plate. Note that I didn't use the rubber grommets in the servos to reduce the risk of flutter, ala BVM. I used a 6mm titanium turnbuckle to connect the servo to the aileron control horns, a 55mm one would have been ideal. I received wooden servo mounts with the wing reinforcement kit that CARF sent out but they arrived a day too late - if I had had them I would have used them instead.
I also tackled the flap servo installation. Servo mounting is easy if you have a long enough screw driver. I used an untrimmed JR nylon servo horn and the shorter of the 2, 3mm push rods in the wing hardware bag. It just skims along the upper skin of the wing without distorting it. The opening for the flap push rod was 3mm too far inboard to line up with the servo horn if a clevis is used so I widened it a little to keep the push rod from rubbing on the aft wing plate. Other than that flap installation was simple.
Next up is the rudder
Phil
#98
My Feedback: (92)
RE: Skygate/CARF Viperjet
The rudder servo installation was pretty straight forward too
The first photo shows the openings I made in the rudder plate. The draft instructions CARF have just distributed suggest that drilling a hole is sufficient but I found that a larger opening is required to prevent the push rods from binding on the airex plate. I used the standard JR servo horn and mounted the servo without rubber grommets. The servo horn goes toward the back of the rudder.
The delrin plate on the bottom of the rudder is removable. The CARF instruction suggest epoxying 3mm button head bolts into the plate, instead I use nylock nut and surrounded them with aeropxy so the the control arms could be unscrewed without dismantling the rudder.
I also installed nylon bushings in each of the 3 rudder mounts and used a carbon fiber tube instead of the supplied brass tube. I have done this with most of my CARF planes. The carbon fiber doesn't get bent out of shape and trapped in the rudder like brass tubing.
I am moving to the west coast this month so I may not get much more done.
Sorry about the photos being upside down - it only happens when I use photos taken with my iPhone.
Phil
The first photo shows the openings I made in the rudder plate. The draft instructions CARF have just distributed suggest that drilling a hole is sufficient but I found that a larger opening is required to prevent the push rods from binding on the airex plate. I used the standard JR servo horn and mounted the servo without rubber grommets. The servo horn goes toward the back of the rudder.
The delrin plate on the bottom of the rudder is removable. The CARF instruction suggest epoxying 3mm button head bolts into the plate, instead I use nylock nut and surrounded them with aeropxy so the the control arms could be unscrewed without dismantling the rudder.
I also installed nylon bushings in each of the 3 rudder mounts and used a carbon fiber tube instead of the supplied brass tube. I have done this with most of my CARF planes. The carbon fiber doesn't get bent out of shape and trapped in the rudder like brass tubing.
I am moving to the west coast this month so I may not get much more done.
Sorry about the photos being upside down - it only happens when I use photos taken with my iPhone.
Phil