bad prop accident??
08-31-2004, 08:46 AM
#76
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RE: bad prop accident??
Gordon,
Here's a post from the AMA forum:
Just posted to AMA-Dist-8 list:
"Here is more info on the accident from Mike P. at Ohio Model Planes. There
is a very good message here.
Larry Cox
Bryon and Casey are very special to OMP and Casey is one of our sponsored
pilots here in OH. Bryon called me up Sun the day after the event to ask
for as much prayer as possible for Casey. If you don't know Casey, think
about your favorite uncle who has more love to offer than just about anyone.
A truly caring person and Christian man. Casey is out of the woods but is
undergoing very painful rehab and this will last some time. He may try to
come down to the DOGS show but don't know yet.
What happened was the plane went into some typr of failure (either battery,
swithces, PCM lock, just don't know). Bryon was not at fault ans the plane
actually flew around the field and most, including Casey thought it was
doomed to crash into the woods. Bryon said the plane flew completely around
the back of the field including a barn before it came back into the pits and
hit Casey.
Almost impossible to believe and Casey is really lucky to be alive. A guess
a lesson to be learned is never take your eyes off an IFE
(in-flight-emergency) situation."
So, let's wait till all the data are in. so far we have crash on take-off, with PCM, without PCM (from an "eye witness" no less)
NOBODY knows diddle yet!
stop the blaming, new rules gotta be made, we're all gonna lose our privelege hype. NOW! let's get some real information in first, OK?
Roger
Roger is right, no has all the facts yet. It amazes me that the AMA is critized, and rightfuly so IMO, for knee jerk reactions that add more regulations, and yet, without all the facts, people now want regs that mandate, and these are only a few, PCM recievers, must have a positive engine cut off in case of loss of signal, etc.
Why don't we wait to all the facts are in, sit back and see what can be learned from this terrible accident and then take action.
BRG,
Jon
Here's a post from the AMA forum:
Just posted to AMA-Dist-8 list:
"Here is more info on the accident from Mike P. at Ohio Model Planes. There
is a very good message here.
Larry Cox
Bryon and Casey are very special to OMP and Casey is one of our sponsored
pilots here in OH. Bryon called me up Sun the day after the event to ask
for as much prayer as possible for Casey. If you don't know Casey, think
about your favorite uncle who has more love to offer than just about anyone.
A truly caring person and Christian man. Casey is out of the woods but is
undergoing very painful rehab and this will last some time. He may try to
come down to the DOGS show but don't know yet.
What happened was the plane went into some typr of failure (either battery,
swithces, PCM lock, just don't know). Bryon was not at fault ans the plane
actually flew around the field and most, including Casey thought it was
doomed to crash into the woods. Bryon said the plane flew completely around
the back of the field including a barn before it came back into the pits and
hit Casey.
Almost impossible to believe and Casey is really lucky to be alive. A guess
a lesson to be learned is never take your eyes off an IFE
(in-flight-emergency) situation."
So, let's wait till all the data are in. so far we have crash on take-off, with PCM, without PCM (from an "eye witness" no less)
NOBODY knows diddle yet!
stop the blaming, new rules gotta be made, we're all gonna lose our privelege hype. NOW! let's get some real information in first, OK?
Roger
Roger is right, no has all the facts yet. It amazes me that the AMA is critized, and rightfuly so IMO, for knee jerk reactions that add more regulations, and yet, without all the facts, people now want regs that mandate, and these are only a few, PCM recievers, must have a positive engine cut off in case of loss of signal, etc.
Why don't we wait to all the facts are in, sit back and see what can be learned from this terrible accident and then take action.
BRG,
Jon
08-31-2004, 09:01 AM
#77
RE: bad prop accident??
ORIGINAL: MMallory
The R/C car guys use a single channel failsafe unit that could be used on the throttle of our plane. A lot less money than switching all receivers.
The R/C car guys use a single channel failsafe unit that could be used on the throttle of our plane. A lot less money than switching all receivers.
Futaba makes one http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXH328&P=ML but it says that it is NOT for aircraft use?
08-31-2004, 09:03 AM
#78
Senior Member
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RE: bad prop accident??
ORIGINAL: F106A
It amazes me that the AMA is critized, and rightfuly so IMO, for knee jerk reactions that add more regulations, and yet, without all the facts, people now want regs that mandate, and these are only a few, PCM recievers, must have a positive engine cut off in case of loss of signal, etc.
Why don't we wait to all the facts are in, sit back and see what can be learned from this terrible accident and then take action.
BRG,
Jon
It amazes me that the AMA is critized, and rightfuly so IMO, for knee jerk reactions that add more regulations, and yet, without all the facts, people now want regs that mandate, and these are only a few, PCM recievers, must have a positive engine cut off in case of loss of signal, etc.
Why don't we wait to all the facts are in, sit back and see what can be learned from this terrible accident and then take action.
BRG,
Jon
As for waiting for all of the facts to get in ... why on earth should we wait to find out which of several possible problems caused this particular incident, if we know that each of those possibilities can and do actually cause or substantially contribute to injuries or death ? Unless the intent here is to deliberately cover up all of the potential problems that we can, then openly discussing all such issues, and discussing them NOW, makes perfectly good sense.
Gordon
08-31-2004, 10:18 AM
#79
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RE: bad prop accident??
Our prayers and best wishes for an uncomplicated recovery go out to Casey and his family.
The Futaba FS-1 one channel (with separate battery to power the throttle servo to off on error detection) Fail Safe Unit is an interesting safety device and merits discussion on all appropriate forums for RC controlled models. It looks like it might prevent some full throttle accidents, with loss of the radio link/main battery power, addressing a significant limitation of the current generation of PCM 'failsafe' Rxs and permitting the addition of 'failsafe' to throttle down/cut for 'nonPCM-failsafe programmable Rxs.
1) How might such a unit respond to intermittent power failure, such as at a switch or in a voltage regulator?
2) Has there been any significant safety experience gained yet in its suggested applications to RC cars and boats?
3) If used in an RC aircraft, could Futaba continue to manufacture such a unit in the face of possible unusual product liability or litigation risk?
The Futaba FS-1 one channel (with separate battery to power the throttle servo to off on error detection) Fail Safe Unit is an interesting safety device and merits discussion on all appropriate forums for RC controlled models. It looks like it might prevent some full throttle accidents, with loss of the radio link/main battery power, addressing a significant limitation of the current generation of PCM 'failsafe' Rxs and permitting the addition of 'failsafe' to throttle down/cut for 'nonPCM-failsafe programmable Rxs.
1) How might such a unit respond to intermittent power failure, such as at a switch or in a voltage regulator?
2) Has there been any significant safety experience gained yet in its suggested applications to RC cars and boats?
3) If used in an RC aircraft, could Futaba continue to manufacture such a unit in the face of possible unusual product liability or litigation risk?
08-31-2004, 11:00 AM
#80
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RE: bad prop accident??
" If used in an RC aircraft, could Futaba continue to manufacture such a unit in the face of possible unusual product liability or litigation risk? "
There's the question.
There's the question.
08-31-2004, 12:40 PM
#82
RE: bad prop accident??
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
i don't get it, that's what they sell it for right?
ORIGINAL: air mail rcu
" If used in an RC aircraft, could Futaba continue to manufacture such a unit in the face of possible unusual product liability or litigation risk? "
" If used in an RC aircraft, could Futaba continue to manufacture such a unit in the face of possible unusual product liability or litigation risk? "
i don't get it, that's what they sell it for right?
From the Tower site:
This is a Fail Safe Unit for Use with CARS and BOATS with Futaba "J" Radio
Systems. NOT FOR USE WITH AIRCRAFT OR HELICOPTER RADIOS!
FEATURES: Fail Safe is a safety device that constantly checks the pulse signal
from the receiver by means of a CPU (Central Processing Unit) and
turns on a fail safe if the pulse is disturbed by interference.
When the power supply voltage drops, a battery fail safe function
turns on and moves the throttle servo to a preset position
(normally, idle/brake).
Compact and lightweight design does not affect servo performance
Responds quickly to interference, etc, and prevents loss of control
of model
Quick recall function quickly resets the fail safe function by
normal servo output signal from the receiver when the interference,
etc., disappears
May be used with AM or FM Futaba "J" systems
Plugs directly into system between the receiver and throttle servo
(no soldering required).
INCLUDES: Fail Safe System with Installation/Operating Instructions
SPECS: Usable receiver power supply:
(1) 4-cell 4.8 volt receiver pack (with 270mAh or more), OR
(2) 5-cell 6 volt receiver pack (with 500mAh or more), OR
(3) 6 volt supplied by BEC internal control amp or regulator
Operating voltage: 3-7volt (brake fail safe detection voltage 4 volt)
Current drain: approx. 4mA/6V (when lamp off)
Input/output pulse width: 0.8-2.2msec
Input/output frame width: 10-25msec
Size: 20.5mm x 34.8mm x 8.4mm (0.81" x 1.37" x 0.33")
Weight: 6.6g, 0.23oz (including connector)
COMMENTS: Do not let water or fuel get on this unit, suggest KYOB6055 for boats
or gas cars. Also, for gas powered cars, suggest wrapping in foam
(HCAQ1000) to protect from vibration.
FOR USE WITH NICDs ONLY! (NO Alkalines or Manganese Dry Cells)
(The discharge curve of alkalines and NiMH cells 1/17/96eke
is dramatically different from that of the ir/jl
NiCD cells for which this unit was designed. It will
not provide you the warning at the appropriate time on
other types of cells.)
08-31-2004, 01:10 PM
#83
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RE: bad prop accident??
Gordon,
Yes, I read that post. It states the battery was checked, not the integrity of the wires or the switch. How many times have you wiggled something to make it work on the bench. A wiggle in the air isn't a good thing.
8178,
I've only used the device on a gas R/C car. I don't understand why Futaba doesn't recommend it for air use. They must have their reasons. It does work very well for land use though.
Mark M.
Yes, I read that post. It states the battery was checked, not the integrity of the wires or the switch. How many times have you wiggled something to make it work on the bench. A wiggle in the air isn't a good thing.
8178,
I've only used the device on a gas R/C car. I don't understand why Futaba doesn't recommend it for air use. They must have their reasons. It does work very well for land use though.
Mark M.
09-02-2004, 09:40 AM
#85
RE: bad prop accident??
ORIGINAL: MMallory
Gordon,
Yes, I read that post. It states the battery was checked, not the integrity of the wires or the switch. How many times have you wiggled something to make it work on the bench. A wiggle in the air isn't a good thing.
8178,
I've only used the device on a gas R/C car. I don't understand why Futaba doesn't recommend it for air use. They must have their reasons. It does work very well for land use though.
Mark M.
Gordon,
Yes, I read that post. It states the battery was checked, not the integrity of the wires or the switch. How many times have you wiggled something to make it work on the bench. A wiggle in the air isn't a good thing.
8178,
I've only used the device on a gas R/C car. I don't understand why Futaba doesn't recommend it for air use. They must have their reasons. It does work very well for land use though.
Mark M.
09-12-2004, 10:33 PM
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RE: bad prop accident??
After reading all of the reports and assumptions in this thread I just felt horrible for both Casey and Bryon. Thanks for posting the picture of Casey. Boy, that sure is a great sight to see someone that has suffered extensively to be back at the field. Very uplifting to see him in high spirits.
I wish you all the best Casey.
I hope Bryon is fairing well also. I can only imagine what keeps replaying in his mind.
Best Wishes,
Mark
I wish you all the best Casey.
I hope Bryon is fairing well also. I can only imagine what keeps replaying in his mind.
Best Wishes,
Mark
