misterpanda

I would say that, more than nickerl being "cheap", the problem encountered with some OS engines lies more on the erroneous plating process they used. Nickel has worked beautifully with other engine manufacturers - basically presenting zero peeling problems. Anyway, sorry for those with the bad batch.


Misterpanda

alpinestar

I've got a 46fx from 1999 that sat for a while and has been flown a lot the past three seasons, great engine. Also a 91fx new this year and so far, so good. Haven't had any OS issues on four strokes (30-120) or two strokes (46-90). No issues with saitos either! Just those pesky electrics (just kidding)

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

How do you pretend to tell us what is going on over at O.S. and what their reaction will be ? This problem has been going on for years, and is a MAJOR one, so for you to say that is has not gotten the engineers attention is BS. Maybe they want to sell more liners, maybe the are being cheap, maybe they just dont listen to the engineers. There are a million possibilities all of which I dont care about. Many companies do the wrong thing for Financial reasons, or office politics, or a million other reasons. For you to claim to know why they have not fixed this is just plain stupid.

In the end, I dont care what their excuse is, I just want my engine to last a reasonable amount of time, which my 4 O.S. engines did NOT [:@].

As far as the plating peeling not affecting performance, that is a bunch of cr@p. At the first sign of peeling, the engine will still run, but more plating peels very quickly, and the engine will start to run badly and then start quitting on every flight. For you to say that the plating is not needed anyways just shows how ignorant you are Buzz. You are not credible or accurate on anything you said.

JettPilot

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

Yeah Ed...I was given this .46FX a couple years ago as a return favor you might say...I put an ARF together for a friend who bought it back in the late 90's but never used it (he sez sometime in '97 IHRC ) so I don't think there's much of a chance of a warranty...unless the powers that be want to do something about it?

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

Jett Pilot I have asked you this as well as several others have ,What did Hobby services say when you sent your engines back in to have them repaired ?
You seem to never answer that question when asked before maybe you will here?

I have only had trouble with one OS engine and that was the 91FX early style ,I sent it back and they sent me a new engine updated free of charge that runs great and no questions asked.

I'm waiting for your answer that and only that will say weather or not you have a legitimate ***** to wards OS .

SamD

Not willing to waste my time monkeying around with Bax, hobby services or Tower. To say that whole crew has some of the worst customer service is an understatement... But I digress. Seriously, from what I've seen over on the Manufacturers support forums that Bax 'supports' [sic], he's every bit as culpable as OS. It's the same old song and dance from him with an endless litany of excuses why there's nothing wrong with OS & ST engines.

As for the performance not degrading as the liner is gradually ground up and spit out, the most noticeable indicator to me was starting; the engines just kept getting more and more difficult to start (not surprisingly, I suppose).

Motorboy

Not difficult to understand why Just engines are selling the new true ABC sleeves to nickel peeled OS engines as here: http://www.justengines.unseen.org/os1.htm

Here are the report of OS owner with nickel peeled OS engine: http://www.justengines.unseen.org/frankenstein.htm

Jens Eirik

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

I don't understand why you would not send a engine back if it was under warranty ,This does not compute to me .I guess you would rather complain about a OS product than try and resolve the issue.What would it cost 5-6.00 bucks at the most to send back the pistons and liners,or one complete engine. Thats not much considering the price of any new engine in my book.

If I had one peel ever I would scream to high heaven no matter if it was under warranty or not ,unless I knew I had done something wrong to the engine .Then it becomes my baby to take care of. My oldest 46FX has approx 20 gallons of fuel ran thru it,but its 16 yrs old also and still runs like new.
Hobby serviecs are not going to come to you.Its sort of like you have to buy a lotto ticket to win ya know.

I had a earlier 91 FX the ones with the needle like the 46FX's .So after a meltdown so to speak I sent it back in with a good explanation of what the engine did and didn't do and got a brand new updated engine in return that runs great WO any more troubles .

I do agree that if a liner peels the power is going to go downhill in short order and soon it just flat won't start or run, or lock up completely.

Don't get me wrong here, there has to be a problem with so many complaints about this issue , but it seems that few or none has sent them back in for repair,thats the paert I don't understand ,Even if its deemed not a warranty item they have to give you a price for repair before it can be repaired . I run my 46's hard in speed type planes and profiles and have never had a problem with peeling liners .
Its not fuel becuse I used to run whatever the LHS had on hand ,from coolpower,,sig, byrons lamp oil ,Omega I can't remember them all.
I've stayed with with one brand now so as to not have to reset the needles all the time and less bearing problems .

And no I don't have anything to do with OS or any hobby outlet I would just like to know once and for all what is causing this issue with some and others don't seem to have it.
Sorry for the book
Richard.

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

I had a 40 & 46 SF and hated them both after about 1/2 gallon of fuel they both turned into Problem children, not because of peeling liners the 40 was a ringed engine, they had other issues. I gave both engines away for parts .But before I did I tore the 46 down and guess what I found a true ABC set up now this was a pumped engine from the factory ,maybe thats why, cause I know most had nickle plating in them from what i'm told.But I have seen and ground enough chrome to know what it looks like plus the plating stoped at the ports and didn't cover the whole sleeve.
Heres the funny thing ,the guy I gave the 46 to put it in a GP corsair and changed the stock muf out to a Jtec.I warned him about the engine ,but he and I tuned it on the ground and that engine never ran so good in the air and not a dead stick one .Back pressure maybe I dunno .
Anyway Just engines has a very good price on the P&L if I ever need one thats where i will go to get it if the shipping won't kill the savings .Thanks for the addy.
Richard.

bla bla

I'm rather surprised that Bax hasn't replied to my request for an Official Statement over at the OS support forum.
The silence is, I have to say, rather suspicious.
Still give it 48hours and a non reply can well be taken as acknowledgment that the peelers do indeed have a legitimate case & OS is supplying inferior/defective goods.
I never thought I hear myself saying that.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

When you consider that there are about 100,000 subscribers on this site and there are only 27 claims that this actually happened and 22 "imagined" or "I heards", that's not many. The original poster who seeks "truth above all else" hasn't even placed a picture of his own failed cylinders on here. What would you have Bax to say?

Rudeboy

Yeah... but only about 1320 of them saw this thread...

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Many more than that saw the title and were not interested.

Evil Homer

I have had the peeling liner happening on two of my OS, Hanno 61 and a 46FX.

Woody 51

I used to use OS engines when I flew C/L. Great engines they were too.
In recent times I have physically sighted peeled liners in .46FX's and .40 and .46 LA's. Also 1 AX a few weeks ago.
However they were in the minority when one considers the number of OS engines in use at my local club.
But, personally enough for me to decide that I will stick with my MVVS, Fox and ST engines.
2 guys I know decided to go the route of the OS .50SX Ring, rather than the .46 AX. They are very happy with their choice and the engines are performing well.

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

I wonder what O.S.'s annual production rate is? Apparently the % of defective sleeves is within their acceptable limits, so they just write this all off...(by that I mean dis-connect themselves from all of us and our "carping" [sm=disappointed.gif] )

bla bla

Hey believe me, I right in the middle the "it's never happened to me crowd."
Yet obviously it's happening. Why, I don't know.
Heat, ingested dirt, humidity? What does OS say.

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

I'm still waiting for a answer from (SPORT PILOT) as well ,looks like several just want to knock a product WO giving them a chance to redeem themselves .They won't even send there so called peelers back in .

All I can say about Hobby Services is that they was fair enough with me and I think if given a chance they would be fair with most .After all they want to sell you more than a engine .
I know before someone jumps me on this HS don't sell engines but there in direct link to Tower and they do.

So my feelings on this whole matter is this ,you buy a engine and it peels or self destructs in any manner and you don't send it back in for repair to at least see what they have to say ,you have no room to complain about it .

Sure you have a couple of weeks downtime on the airframe ,but is that not better and less money than a new engine bought elsewhere.

Richard

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

As I recall there were many discussions in the past regarding repair of peeled liners. Hobby Services would indeed replace them under warranty. I heard Hobby Services often included a note with the repair stating the peel was caused by inproper engine tuning.

My 40FX was 1 year out of warranty when it peeled. I did not return the out-of-warrranty engine. I looked into the cost for a new liner from OS and decided replacing it did not make economic sense.

My personal experience with Hobby Services has been excellent. They could go a long way toward redeeming themselves in my mind if they would offer an extended warranty on their new liners, say 5 years? I'm thinking of buying their new 55AX but am nervous that the liner will not hold up.

bla bla

Here is what Bax said in his reply to my question posted in the OS support forum:


There really is no "official" response. O.S. did acknowledge that the .46FX did have the plating peel from the liner under some conditions. The percentage was not very high, but because the .46FX was their most popular engine worldwide, the numbers were high enough to cause people to notice. O.S. changed the way they plated their non-ringed engines and now use their ABL system.

When properly broken-in and run, the cylinder liners of O.S. Max non-ringed engines will not peel. If the engines are run under extreme conditions with low-oil fuels, with fuels that do not contain castor oil in extreme conditions, and so on, then the liner may become damaged. Failure of the plating is but one result.

_____________________________

Bill Baxter, Manager Hobby Services/Futaba Service/North America
3002 N. Apollo Dr. Ste. 1 Champaign, IL 61822 USA
Service Phone: 217 398-0007
Email: hobbyservices (at) hobbico.com



As I stated earlier, I personally haven't ever had this problem (including seriously misusing the above mention .46FZ for a nunmber of years) so his reply sounds very acceptable to me.
Having said that I do feel for the few peelers out there, what can I say interms of sympathy?
S#it happens.

Motorboy

Not only 46 size engines, but other had sleeve peeled in size 46, 50, 61 and 91 OS engines (not ringed engines). My engine OS 61 had peeled sleeve, now i am making own new sleeve + adding ring in new piston , all original sleeve and piston in trash.

Today i was in hobby dealer, i saw at these OS engines, not all engines has ABN sleeve, the marine OS .21 VZ-M, OS .15 CV-M has true ABC sleeve (checked in the exhaust port, there are brass sleeve with chrome inside). Can not know why make these difference both ABN and ABC in airplane and car/marine engine when it is talking about cheap plating process in aircraft engines. See at the car engine to example has ABC sleeve: http://www.osengines.com/engines/osmg1992.html

I has the older OS SE-M marine engine NIB with true ABC sleeve (the brass sleeve are visible).

Jens Eirik

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

50 % or about HALF of the people that have responded to tihs survey have either had or seen the problem, that is a LOT. You know as well as I that the vast majority of people on this group do not frequent the glow engine forum, your 100,000 number means nothing and is nothing more than an attempt to deceive people.

I did not take pictures of my peeled liners. So you are saying that we should not listen to anyone that did not post pictures, or have three witnesses, or have a certified A&P inspect the engine... What a bunch of BS. People are having the problem, they are posting it here, posting it other places, and it has even made the engine clinic in RCU magazine, it IS HAPPENING.

Most people just throw the engines away and do not take the time to complain and post pictures here, but then again you know that, you are just trying to find any excuse to hide the truth and discredit people that come foward with their experiences.

Pretty Sad...

JettPilot

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

I saw O.S. engines ad about the new Advanced Bimetallic liner, so last year I went to the O.S. engine support forum here in RCU and nicely and politely stated that I had four O.S. engines peel thier lining, and asked if the new Advanced Bimetallic liner was something new, or if it was a new name for a the old liner that had peeled.

The moderator over there DELETED my post, and said that the OS people did not need to see that. The moderator in the OS forum obvously has an agenda to keep this from being discussed over there.

So when you ask what they would say, they would say nothing. Because they are DELETING threads and questions about it. That gave me my answer, OS support knows about this problem, and is actively trying to HIDE it from readers here. That is when I decided to never buy another OS engine [:'(]

JettPilot

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

SPORT PILOT this is yours.


Hummmmm I know Bax put a couple of words in here and I can't find it now ,maybe I missed it ,but it appears to be gone like it never happened.

Well for starters RCU is not going to fix your engine,So posting here while may sooth your wounded ego, is not going to get anything done about you getting your engine fixed or replaced.
You need to go straight to the front of the horse not follow the tracks,and that would have been Hobby Services ,or your LHS where you bought it from.
Your trying to say that if someone buys a new engine and it takes a crap the very first tank there just going to toss it and not see about getting it repaired.Maybe someone that has unlimited funds may do this but I sure wouldn't and neither would most folks I know.Who do do expect to believe that crap .I really doubt that they would toss it if it was still under warranty.Plus theres the fact that some of the parts can be used on other makes of engines .I sure won't throw away a OS carb in favor to keep a less quality one.
If nothing else you could sell whats left on here ,people are always needing parts and not always a P&L.

So to sum this up you never tried to get your engines fixed ,you would rather get up on your soapbox and rant and rave about how no good OS engines are than try to resolve the issue .To me that takes more energy than sending one back in,but to each there own !

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

I was told that the warrenty would not cover "abuse" and that a peeled liner was from a lean run and was considered abuse. I bought the engines from Tower, I never buy from a LHS. At the time I did not know the rest of the world was having the same problems or I would have been much more agressive in pursuing this matter. Given what I knew at the time, I bought another new OS engine rather than go through the hassle of fighting with them over it.

Throwing them away is exactly what I did. The piston and liner cost almost as much as a new engine, so I bought new OS engines and the old ones sat in a box for years until I finally got rid of them. You imply that this is wounded ego, it is nothing of the sort. This is exposing an inferrior product, just as consumer reports, or many other people do. Giving information about defective products is a great thing and helps us all. There are always a few with an agenda that want to hide and censor the truth, but those days are over with the internet.

You seem to be trying to distract everyone from the subject at hand. Who really cares weather I threw my engines away or not, what really matters is that THEY PEELED thier liners with no abuse, and LOTS OF PEOPLE have the same problem. Is the best you can do is try to distract people by guessing what others did with their worthless engines and talk about warrenty claims ? pretty lame...

I am long over these engines that went bad years ago, I am telling my story for the good of my fellow modelers. Thanks to everyone that has the courage to and takes the time relate thier experiences here ! This is the type of thing that will make manufactuerers of substandard products take notice.

JettPilot