mR JoLLy

Right then Picture time !!!!!

Modifications to the Tucano are as follows.

Stripped all covering
Removed hard wood rails in wings and installed ply former for retracts.
Cut holes in wing for wheels and lined with 1/64 ply
Cut lower sheeting off behind firewall
Installed ply former to hold retract system
Installed shims to hold the tank in position (height not altered)
Purchased a replacement shorter tank to make room for the retracting front wheel as standard tank was too long.
Installed retract servo in wing root.
Installed additional servo in the fuselage for the front wheel system
Re-covered with Black Solarfilm (black is a horrible colour to work with I have found)
Produced graphics and applied (that's what I do for a living by the way)

There is another modification with a small servo in the wing (visible from one of the pictures) That's a surprise for someone so cant say here just in case he is watching, but I will reveal at the weekend!

The retracts I have used are an old (15 years) set of EZ brand mechanicals I think. The front unit had to be altered slightly to work correctly.

I will take a look at the air retract measurements to see if there is room in the wings. I think there should be by all accounts. I will report back. . .

If you guys have any questions fire away.

JoLLy

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Jolly, thanks for the great photos. We all appreciate it and I think that several of us will be taking your lead in retrofitting retracts into this plane. I have several sets of the EZ brand retracts. Between having a set in hand and your great photos, I don't need the measurements; there is plenty of room in the wing.

By the way, your plane really looks fantastic. I am ultra impressed with the eject lines that you put on the canopy. I'm guessing that the second servo in the wing center is for a drop tank or speedbrake but maybe that's too obvious. I shall look forward to reading about it when you reveal the secret.

A few questions:
- What replacement tank did you use (brand/length)?
- What is the balsa block and screw for that is immediately forward of the nose retract? I'm thinking that it is the door stop for the nosewheel door.
- What engine/muffler are you using? Are you also using a muffler extention?
- When the main gear is extended, what is the distance from the wingskin to the axle?
- Same question, but for the nose gear axle to the underside of the fuselage?
- Are you using the wheels from the kit. If not, what diameter of wheels are you using?
- Did you have any trouble getting the nosewheel to fully tuck up into the fuselage?

Once again, really beautiful work. You must post photos of the plane in the air!!!! Thanks for all the info and for posting the photos.

Incidentally, can I talk you into selling me a set of the canopy lines?

Jim

dlan

Um, can I ship my plane to you! LOL I really admire what you have accomplished here with the bashing, nice job!
I'm starting to think I may fly with the wire gear for now only cause I don't have the patience to perform this operation
at this time. I TRULY do appreciate you taking the time to help us all out!! I have file this information for future use!!!!

Thanks Jolly!

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Well I'm definitely putting in the retracts so thanks for the photos Jolly. I have about 3 complete sets of those EZ retracts. I had them in a variety of planes (most of all a Great Planes UltraSport 40 which weighs about 6 pounds) and the things I remember most are:

- the struts are weak. I had to bend them back into place after every flight. It was almost like they would deform if a gust of wind hit the model when it was on the ground. It looks like you've replaced the struts too. Is that a ground down wheel collar holding the nose gear strut into the retract? I was surprise that you have straight struts on the mains. Why didn't you put in a coil.
- you have to be very careful bending the struts back into place. If you put too much pressure on them (particularly the mains), you'll crack the plastic. I have several that are broken.
- the mains use a brass threaded insert that really isn't that strong. I was forever tightening up the set screws.

By the way, nice mod to the nose gear stearing arm. Cute. Was there a problem with the original?

mR JoLLy

OK been away for a day so just catching up on things!

To answer your questions from earlier:

I have no idea what tank it is as I have had it in my "I'll use it some day box" for some time. I will try and measure it but I suggest you get the wheel retracting as far aft as possible and when it's installed measure for yourself, there could be differences!

The block at the front of the retract is the stop block for the retract. It's an old unit and it's suffering a little so the block just adds a little security. The screw holds it in position and a grub screw in the retract adds extra security. It's made from solid hardwood! The modifications to the front retract were all driven by the fact that the original parts had long since disappeared!

The engine is a standard Irvine 53 and a standard "silent" exhaust. I don't know if you have the same parts as in the UK but every Irvine 53 has this exhaust. I will be running it with 10% Nitro and all synthetic fuel at 16%.

Nose wheel - Fuse skin to axle is approx 94mm and 120mm to the bottom of the wheel. I made the front wheel retract as far back as possible in the space provided. Initially I was going to make it retract into the model but chose not to after a re-think. Putting a bend in the bar would compromise some strength I think. The wheel door was modified accordingly. Kit supplied wheel was used.

Wing wheels - Skin the axle is approx 102mm and 133mm to the bottom of the wing. The wing retracts were measured after the front wheel was sorted as my thinking was the wing wheels were easier to adjust. As it was they worked out just fine with minimal interruption of the wing ribs. Again the kit wheels were used. I have not but a spring wind in the wire as I couldn't be bothered. All flights in the next 2 weeks will be on RAF bases and I will be landing in the main runways (allegedly).

There are a few more pictures to support what I have said here.

Ask again if you need any further explanations.

I can sort out the cockpit explosive lines for you. I will send you a PM to sort things out!

JoLLy.

PS the extra servo in the wing is for none of the things you have suggested

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Jolly,

Thanks for the info and I will look for the PM on the cockpit lines. I have one of those "I'll use it one day boxes" (actually, I have many of them but am trying to reduce the number). Thanks for measuring the length of the gear struts for me, that gives me some guidelines. I'm quite interested in hearing about how your model flies and seeing if you have the bounce problem that I'm having with asphalt. Lucky you to have runways provided courtesy of the RAF. I'm also looking forward to my next test flights with the fixed gear but adjustable axles. I now have reduced the wing incidence and will see if that helps the plane stick to the runway. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it until Sunday. By that time, you'll have flown your model.

I may also have to change to an inverted engine mount as with the current side mount and Pitts muffler, the exhaust is on the centerline right in front of the nose ger strut. Exhaust would blow into the nosewheel well. Ah, it's always something.

Clear skies to you,

Jim

dlan

Ah indecision!!

I need some advice. I have two options to use for powering my Tucano 40, either FS 70 or TS 53.
The 70 (OS Surpass, not Surpass II) will take more modification, add more weight where as the 53 (Magnum)
will slip right in.

My question: Will the 53 provide sufficient power? I think yes but would really like to hear from experienced
pilots their opinion. I know the plane specs a 46 but I am hearing mixed opinions on that size engine.

As always, thanks in advance!!

Dlan

mR JoLLy

Well I gave mine a maiden flight yesterday and it went very well. Controls were very sensitive and gad to be reduced for comfortable flying.

I will weigh the model in the morning to give you an idea of the AUW, but the model has good power for most manoeuvres. It won't go vertical, It won't do a large loop, but I did not expect that from it after the mods seen above.

The Irvine 53 was certainly capable, and it managed very good speed with level flight.

If the TS 53 is as good as the Irvine you will be happy with it I am sure, but then we all want different levels of performance! So the final choice sits with you

JoLLy

dlan

Jolly thanks for your input. It's what I assumed but to hear from others experience it always helpful.
I will go with the 53 as it will allow me to have the plane ready quicker. I love FS engines but am a
little too anxious... but then again, I have to wait for the kids ball season to end...

I really do like what you have accomplished with your kit! Can't wait to hear more reports.

Thanks again!

Dlan

mR JoLLy

No worries. I know what you mean about $ stroke engines. I have a few Laser engines which started my migration to 4 strokes. I now have a 120 FS pumper for my 109 and an unused FS70 which was intended for the Tucano (just like you

I am sure it will end up in a small aerobatic model soon.

You might find it necessary to start a new thread to attract fresh input. Add a link to this thread in the new one for reference sometimes helps.

JoLLy.

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Jolly,

Glad to hear that your flight went A-OK. The bird looks fabulous.

Dlan (and any others),

Further to all the posts above concerning retracts, I started putting them in tonight and have uploaded some photos. The nose retract is nowhere near as hard as I thought it might be. There is more than enough room. I think the toughest part will be putting in the main gear as the ribs are too lightweight and will have to be reinforced/replaced. Here are the photos:

Photo 1 - Wing covering cut away from underside to expose the ribs and fixed landing gear.

Photo 2 - Fixed landing gear block cut away leaving the wing ribs with their "stock" reinforcement

Photo 3 - Nose with lower sheeting cut away to give plenty of room to work. Save the sheeting as it is "pre-curved" and can be used to make the wheelwell door. The bottom portion of former #2 has to be cut away. Save the former as a guide as it will have to be replaced later. The EZ retracts are installed on hardwood rails running between the back of the firewall and former #2. The glue joints will be reinforced later as the photo shows the assembly tack-glued in place. The rails are at about a 10 degree angle. This allows the wheel to retract fullying into the nose. A 2-1/4" Dubro wheel was used. The "stock" tank was also used. In it's fully retracted position, the wheel just misses the tank so I glued a piece of black foam tape to the tank to provide a bit more protection against wear should the strut ever bend back. A balsa block was used to mount the steering pushrod. A servo mounting box was constructed from hardwood and balsa and glued behind former #3 and against the inside of the fuselage to mount the retract servo. The box is just over an inch high and the ball-link for the pushrod easily clears the upperside of the wing. Note the shape of the pushrod which remains clear of the tank and wheel.

Photo 4- Nose wheel in retracted position.

Photo 5 - Side view showing the retracted nose wheel. The added red line shows the outline of the lower sheeting (to be reinstalled) and that the wheel will fully retract into the fuselage.

More photos will be posted of the main gear installation as it progresses during the week. The intent is to fly the plane next weekend.

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Photos - let's see if they load this time.

yiotiscy

hello guys,im kinda new here so i have a couple of questions to ask.I've got the Phoenix Tucano 40-46 and i,ll be using the OS 70 FS on it plus i'll be installing a new system from epf hobby called DSR-46 landing gear system.it will take a lot of work to do all this so if anyone has any tips on how to do they are more than welcome.My main question thow is if i install the os 70 will the plane handle its power or will it split the wings or something,i like to fly a bit fast and make tight turns you see.what do you guys think about my combo???

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

yiotiscy,

Several folks have put the OS 70 in the plane so no worries about that. The kit requires that the engine be mounted such that that thrust washer is 100mm from the firewall. The OS70 is 89mm from the thrust washer to the back of the engine so you've got 11mm left over for your mount. You can stretch this to a bit beyond 100mm by sliding the cowl slightly forward. The engine will not give you unlimited vertical or turn the plane into a barn burner. Read back on the previous threads for more info.

As for the retracts, they seem to be too lightweight for this plane. The manufacturer shows them in a Tomcat weighing 1.6kg. The retracts show a plane max weight of 2.5kg. The Tucano, with your engine, will likely weigh 2.8kg without fuel.

dlan

Looking good! Can't wait to see the finished version!!

mR JoLLy

Nice to see you have your modifications underway Interesting to see your adaptations to get the wheel all the way in at the front. I will be interested to see how that progresses and works in practice. Interesting to see you can get the wheel in with the original tank. I have not measured but is the replacement wheel smaller?? There was no way I could get my standard wheel in with the supplied tank!

yiotiscy, My OS 70 is 89mm from the thrust washer to the back of the crank. You then have the carb sticking out at the back. That means you move the thrust moment forward 12mm or so or cut into the firewall (which would inhibit retracts if you were planning on installing) rcjets_63 and dlan have put some good ideas in here for the movement of the thrust moment which is probably the way I would have gone if I was so inclined!

I watch with interest . . . .

JoLLy

yiotiscy

thanks jolly for all the info you provided and your right,my landing gear wont take the weight and i prefer to know this now rather to find out in the field.I am know thinking about buyin the hobbico mechanical retracts but i cant get enough info on them.what do you think,and if you can suggest a good set for my plane it would be much appreciated.either way thanks for the heads up on the retracts.you probably saved my plane from a future rough landing

mR JoLLy

Sadly I could not find anything in the shops today for the job so I pulled an old set of EZ retracts out of storage. You might have some luck on eBay ??

JoLLy

yiotiscy

just correcting my self,thanks go out to Mr jolly and rcjets

claudio ramon

Good morning colleagues, talking about the subject, a lifetime to me like the tucano, but when keeping buy what I do not like the color that brings the phoenix original model, and what was a ise arf, super improved with terrain here's own show my project greetings

claudio ramon

Not passing who do not want to leave the pictures[&o]

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Good morning all,

Claudio, nice paint job. That looks like it took some effort. I elected not to put the 100 Low Lead fuel stickers on the plane. This is a turbo-prop so it doesn't burn 100LL, it burns jet fuel but maybe I'm just a purist.

Yiotiscy, I looked it up and Hobbico retracts are the same as the EZ retracts that Jolly and I are using so go ahead and buy them. Between Jolly and I, there are/will be lots of photos and descriptions here about putting in these retracts. The wire struts that come with the retract are weak (at least they were 5-6 years ago when I bought mine) so you might want to buy some replacement struts.

Jolly, I swapped the kit nosewheel (2-1/2" diameter) with a 2-1/4 nosewheel. I will also swap out the main wheels with Dubros (either 2-1/2 or 2-3/4) as the kit wheels are too stiff and bounce. I looked back at your photos and will redo the nose retract mount to put in the 1/4" think ply mounting plate like you have. I used the rails as a temporary measure to see how everything would fit.

Clear skies to all,

Jim

yiotiscy

thanks guys i will place an order for them,as for the struts i dont know they seem solid cause it says they are reinforced but it doesnt hurt to get some extras.as for my landing gear that i already have i think i'll use them on an old still boxed trainer that i have-sky raider mach 2 low wing.i'll post some pics for you guys very soon.thanks

rcjets_63

My Feedback: (5)

Well I got started on the main gear retracts tonight. It was actually a lot easier than I thought it was going to be. Refer to the photos below.

Photo 1 - Shows the lower wing covering and the fixed gear block removed. The ribs are made of balsa, have lightening holes, and are a bit too weak for retracts. Cut out the ribs (along the black lines) from the front spar to the trailing edge spar. It is a bit tough to get to the rib due to the sheeting at the trailing edge, but cut along the dashed black line at this point and remove the entire rib. Leave the upper cap strip in place.

Photo 2 - Using the two removed ribs as templates, cut out replacement ribs from 1/8" ply. The original ribs are on the bottom of the photo while the new ply ribs are at the top. Using the notches in the old ribs as a guide, as well as the width of the retracts, make with two 3/8" x 1/2" marks (dark area in photos) and cut away this material to form notches for the retract hardwood mounting rails. You will also need to cut a notch in the rib for the gear strut, a cutout for the retract pushrod, and a hole for the aileron servo wire.

Photos 3 & 4 - Glue in the replacement ribs and the hardwood mounting rails. The rails should be cut such that their ends are flush with the ribs. Reinforce the structure by gluing in 3/8" triangle stock to the rib/front spar, the underside of the rails, and the rib/trailing edge spar. Glue a 5/8" x 2-1/4" lite ply doubler to the inside face of the inboard rib and the outside face of the outboard rib (see photo 5 & 6). Drill holes in the mounting rails and install 4-40 blind nuts to the back side of the rails and bolt the retract into place. Install 3/32" x 1/2" cap strips to the ribs and the mounting rails to frame the retract base.

Photos 5 & 6 - These photos show the installed retract, triangle stock reinforcement, and the lite ply doublers. The inboard doubler has been notched for the retract strut and the pushrod.

Photo 7 - Notch the inboard cap strip as required for the retract strut and strut coil.

Photo 8 - Overall view of mounted retract unit. The next step will be to determine the strut length such that the model will sit on the ground at a slight negative incidence and then cutout the wheel well.

mR JoLLy

These are better instructions than you get in construction manuals. If you are not careful you will be sent to China to translate those manuals! Mind you they would be small novels then

Nice work I must say. Let's hope the wheel sits between the ribs for an easy fit!

claudio ramon very nice what you have done there. How was the detailing done ??

JoLLy