JPEE

J, I have done that more times than I count. Tomorrow I have to replace the tail servo support brace. I am gone to try and stretch it over the boom. Honestly I doubt it will work but I have to keep the faith LOL

jroo

JPEE, you saved the day again man.
Took off the head and the main shaft looks like a snake.

you rule!

JPEE

Jreue,
I am so glad it worked out for you. It sounds impossible to do but I was working on a heli called " Legend". The head was defective and made the heli shake so bad that I bent two new main shafts when spooling it up.

JPEE

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

JPEE,

Hope Horizon will help with the electronics, I have always included a sales receipt, and never had an issue, but you should still be OK. What is the worst that can happen, they say no? I'll be interested in how you make out with the Futaba gyro as well...

Sorry you had the issues. With some of the Eflite stuff, I'm not too surprised anymore....lol.

jrueue,

Glad you are getting things ironed out a bit at a time. Good luck with the B400.

Nick,

Last time I went up to the shop, it was a nightmare. I got ready to bring my stuff in, and one of the porters backed his SUV into a lift arm, and punctured his tire. Rather than have to deal with that on my day off, I just turned around and left...lol...

I actually find it depressing to go there to fly, I spend so much time there during the week, the last place I want to be is there...I was more desperate in the olden days...now, I'm happy just to wait for spring, and fly outside. There are some indoor flys that Rob was telling me about, but they sound pretty lame, not even big enough for the Qaurk, which is what I really want to fly indoors, in a gym sized area.

Is your club still hosting indoor flys? I know you don't have any helis to fly in one, but I was curious if they are still having it. Did you ever hear how your club's New Year's day fun fly went?

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Yeah I can't wait till spring either. I am just flying on the sim to get my fix for winter.

There is a pretty big indoor fun fly in Feb. in Illinois. Too bad it isn't closer, so I could go fly there.

Yeah my club still does the indoor fun flies. I can fly my 450 there, but they only allow 30min to fly 400-450 sized helis. It is kind of a waste of time to just get one flight in for that. It brings in some money for the club, so they keep having it during the winter.

I didn't hear how the fun fly went. I did hear they got the snow cleared off the run way though.

Nick

evdreamer

Glenn,

Do you have a problem with Nitro engines hyrdo locking during winter? I went to go try and start my engine with my glow starter, but I couldn't get the engine to turn over. I had to take the glow plug out and empty out what I could. Then I kept turning the starter shaft by hand. It took me a couple of hours, but I finally got it to turn over. Usually it will hyrdo lock on me before the first flight of the day. Then I just turn the starter shaft for a couple of minutes by hand and it will be fine for the rest of the day. Right now I have a starter that is good up to a 90 sized engine. I wonder if I got a starter good up to a 180 sized engine if it would be easier to turn over the engine when it is hydro locked.

Nick

JPEE

Nick,
I am not an expert in this field but I have to ask, how can a nitro engine get hydo locked (filled with water, condinsation).

Can't you just leave the glow plug out and and let it breath and stay unloacked?

JPEE

evdreamer

JPEE,

It isn't really water locking the engine up it is just a term people at my field say when fuel stays in the combustion chamber and makes it really hard to turn the engine over.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

Hmmmm, let's see....I think you are possibly getting the terminology mixed up, or misinterpreted...if an engine is truly hydrolocked, it won't turn over, not at all...I think the word flooded is more appropriate...

Since a liquid will not compress, the engine would truly be locked up......which can and does happen to nitro engines, usually requiring removal of the glow plug, like you did, completely shutting off the fuel supply (one of those line clamps comes in handy for that) and spinning the engine over pretty good with a starter for a few seconds to clear the crankcase, and cylinder.

I think what you are having is not a true hydrolock, but rather just a very hard to turn over engine at times, probably on the verge of being flooded. It takes alot of starter power to overcome that resistance on a cold engine that has alot of fuel in the cylilnder/crankcase.

Sounds like maybe you have some excess fuel getting into the engine when it's not running for a while....are you using the clamps on the fuel feed line to the carb? Do they work well and seal off the fuel line totally?

The problem with a more powerful starter goes back to that fact I stated above, you can't compress a liquid. So, if you force the engine, something has to give, and it's usually the connecting rod, the weakest link....I have seen car engines do this, and they have very large, steel rods! [X(]

Best to clear the flooded engine, your starter should do the job if everything is right....maybe check those clamps and/or see if you can find any reason for excess fuel to be in the crankcase/cylinder/combustion chamber after a "soak" period...

Let me know how you make out, I'd like to know...and follow up...

I managed to flood the Raptor a few times, and clearing it out like I mentioned above did the trick, even with my so-so starter.

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Thanks for the clarification. The engine was flooded.

I use the fuel clamps when I am filling the tank, but I leave them unclamped when I am done flying. Maybe some excess fuel from the tank gets in the engine when I am moving the heli around. It doesn't look like the fuel gets by the clamp, but I am not 100% sure.

When I am done flying I drain the tank and let the engine run until it runs out of fuel.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

You are welcome, hope it helped understand the difference.

Sounds like you are doing everything right, I forgot to ask how you were shutting it down after a day's flight, you are doing it 100% correct, and that should prevent any fuel from getting into the engine during the idle time between flights.

One thing is for sure, these small nitro engines are very finicky at times, very stubborn, and sometimes just downright frustrating. Nitro definitely adds to the challenge of tuning, flying and maintaining an RC heli or vehicle.

Keep at it, the more experience you get with it, the more you'll be able to "read" what's going on, and what to do about it....it takes time.

Rob admits freely that he is not a good engine tuner, and he's been at it a while....there is sort of an art to it, for sure!

I was checking out that new Century 50/60 sized gasser....not much of a 3D machine, but it looks like alot of fun to go take out for a 20 minute spin!

Keep at it!

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

It is easy to get spoiled by the electrics.

I would also like that the fuel is cheaper for the gassers. I would like to try the new YS56 out and see what kind of power that engine makes.

Nick

9sec240

Nick and JPEE, I am trying to lay out the electronics in my T600 ESP and am having a hard time getting the CG far enough forward. Any tips as to how you guys got yours to balance? Pictures of your electronics placement would really be appreciated. I am currently toying with the idea of putting the BEC battery all the way up front under the flight battery to help CG.

evdreamer

Ivan,

I had a 2 pound battery up front. I have my ESC in about the same spot and I had my receiver battery in the back.

Nick

JPEE

Hi Ivan,
My 600 is standard not a ESP so it has a totally different frame, sorry, but it has a nice CG.

Nick,
Just read all of the "language" hydro and flooded above. Like I said at the begining, I am weak in that area but Hydro to me has always mean "water" locked. But it is not wong in my opinion to use that term. In some instances the term hydro mean LIQUID locked too. You say Potatoe and some call them PO TAWT TOES....................

Well I made my maiden on the Apprentice yesterday and did ok. She flies totally different than the T-28. Mainly she floats with that large wing. I would take her up and cut off the motor and ride the breeze and could dang near stay up as long as I wanted. While there having a BESTEST day ever "I trashed the 400", new CF blades and canopy GONE, the sun got me. Oh! did I mention there were 8 crashes yesterday? It was BLACK TUESDAY for a lot of guys. Now with two 400s crashed on the bench keeping themselve company LOL I think I am gonna leave them there for awhile. I still have two planes and two helis, the 5 and 600's. I just have to much going on right now to spend the bench time.

Smiles All JPEE

choppersrule

Ivan,

I've got the Trex 600 ESP and it balances perfectly. I'm using a Lightning Power 5000 mAh 6s1p at 25c... It weighs 745 grams.. 1 ounce is roughly 27 grams. It may be that your battery is somewhat lighter. If that's the case, I would just add weight to the underside of the battery tray. My external Bec, voltage regulator, RX and RX battery and gyro are all in the back end of the frame.

Dave

9sec240

My batteries are supposed to be the exact same weight as yours Dave.

Spec.
Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 6S1P / 6 Cell / 22.2v
Discharge: 25C Constant / 35C Burst
Weight: 746g (including wire, plug & shrink wrap)
Dimensions: 143x50x48mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 4mm Bullet-Connector

Obviously this is a stated weight. I do not have a scale that will weigh these batteries.

I am running a DS650 tail servo which weighs 56g... Other than that, I cant think of what would make it so tail heavy.

evdreamer

JPEE,

Good to hear your new plane flies good. It would be a fun plane on windy days and just let it glide for a long time.

Sorry to hear about the crash.

Nick

choppersrule

Ivan,

I have the G770D gyro and the DS8900g tail servo. Gyro 30 grams, and tail servo 60 grams. So we are both about right, on the weight there.

You just may want to take some time to make a test stand to hold the flybar, and add weight to the front to just see how much you are off, to make the CG correct.

It sounds like it may be alot, the way you are describing it. If you find it to be 3 ounces or so, that's okay. but 8 ounces would be way to high.

Dave

evdreamer

Ivan,

This might be a stupid question, but do you have the canopy on when you are testing the balance?

You might want to keep the reciever wires away from the motor. Mine got pretty hot.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

JPEE, sorry about your B400 crash, sounds like everyone there had a bad day!

Cool that you had fun with the new plane, sounds like a relaxing time to fly it.

Nick,

Yeah, the fuel is just a BIT cheaper, about 1/10 the cost of nitro...and they say there is no smoke...

And since the engine actually has an ignition system, it's probably a LOT less finicky than a nitro is to start and tune....

They didn't talk much about those details in the RC Heli article.

Not much going on here, another arctic blast on the way for this weekend, not supposed to go out of the 20's....

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Would a spark plug work in a Nitro engine? I don't think it would be that hard to make an ignition system.

I just found out that my O-Scope is backordered and won't be in until the 10th.[&o]

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

In theory, at least, it would. But the ignition timing would have to be exact, not much room for error. The parts for the ignition system would be fairly simple, it would be a magneto type of system, simialar to the Zenoah engines, or even a lawnmower or chainsaw engine.

Race cars run on methanol, so I don't see why it wouldn't work on a nitro engine, unless the combustion chamber design isn't optimal for a spark plug type ignition, which gets complicted, with flame fronts, flame travel, detonation issues, etc. But, I do think it would work, just might take some tweaking. I'm sure people have tried it.

Hmmm, it got me thinking, so I googled it...lol...

Can I put an ignition system on my glow engine?

Yes...but! You can put an ignition system on your glow engine and run it with glow fuelDick Hanson found that it added a couple hundred RPM to his ST 2300. (See the RPM chart for specific numbers.) You can also run the engine on gasoline, but you must run it with lots of oilwhich defeats the purpose of running gasoline. You'll also lose power when you switch over to gas. Most glow engines use bushings instead of roller bearings on the rod ends. Those bushings require a lot more oil than a bearing does, so you still have to run it at a MINIMUM of 10%, and NEVER let it see a lean run. Remember, too, that gasoline runs hotter than glow fuel. Unless you replace your bushings with roller bearings, don't waste your time trying to run gasoline in your glow engine. rcfaq



So, yeah, you can, and I figured there would be some "buts" involved...this all came from this site;

http://www.rcfaq.com/ANSWERS/ENGINES/ignitions.htm


Interesting stuff!

Sorry about your backordered O-scope![>:]

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

I was thinking about doing it another way. I was thinking of something like a distributorless ignition. I can't remember the name of it. Maybe use a hall effect sensor to get the timing for the spark. Then use a controller and an inductor to produce the spark. I am just wondering if there is a spark plug that would fit in a glow plug hole.

Nick

9sec240

Dave, Nick, JPEE, thanks for the advice. I am checking balance by hanging it by the flybar with it oriented 90° to the boom. I am doing it with the canopy in place. With the RX battery all the way up front it still hangs tail down slightly but it is very close to balancing out. I will try to see how much weight it will need to hang perfect.