evdreamer

Mark,

I didn't think I would be a Nitro fan, but I am. I still like the electrics, but they are my back up now.

Nope, I don't have a 500. Glenn and JPEE have the 500's. I just have a 450, 600, and the Velocity.

Nick

jroo

Are you saying the 450 clone is far better than a blade 400? whoa!!? really!? How so? Are we talking a stock 400?Please elaborate.

I have the 400 and an official Align 250, and yea there is a difference in quality considering the aluminum head, tail, and CFframe, stock electronics, etc. Hmm maybe I just answered my question.... did I?

I've recently been wondering if Ishould trade in my 400 for an Align (not a clone). The one think Ilove about my 400 is the relitivly cheap parts. How do the Align/E-FLite compare in crash results?

JPEE

jreue,
As you might have discovered, your 250 flies better than the Blade. It may more of a handful do to its size but I think you will still agree. To be very clear, I have not finished my 450 Pro but friends have and I have flown them. Yes the parts are cheap for the 400 but after two years of flying my two 400 and watching the one shelf queen I found that when you crash you have many! parts to replace. I took my main 400 and went "good" CNC head and tail box $109.00, I bought flexable landing gear too and she is a honey. But she is all plastic otherwise and in the crashes it costs $$. The frame though only $12.00 is a pain in the butt to change out the entire heli. I can do a 400 and my 500 with my eyes closed and thats no lie. But when I crash the 500 like did this time I broke off my tabs that hold the landing gear. No probelm Like 13.00 and I was was done and swtiched out the the bootom plate and NOT tear apart the entire heli

Godd run right now to go fly but...........................get a 500 not a 450 YOUR READY to move up

jroo

Few Align 500 questions...

1) It's about 8 inches longer than my 400. It's still small enough to tool around my front yard and parks right? I don't go to an actual airfield, just local parks

2) My Blade 400 has HS-65MG's on the cyclic. Should I sell these with the Blade 400, or keep them. Are the cyclic servos that come with the ESP prone to strip easily like the stock eflite servos? Although cheap to replace, it's incredible annoying to replace these.

3) How is the torque tube in comparison to belt driven systems?

4) What was the cheapest price you guys saw the 500 at at Flying-Hobby? It is currently at $569 with 2 batteries and extra blades

HeliStyle

My Feedback: (2)

hey guys, long time no talk.

Still keeping up with the thread every so often

how is everyone?

JPEE

1. You are not going to fly a 500 in the front yard of a standard home. Can it be done, yes, but very dangerous and 500 needs nucj more room to breath. Even in a Park which I fly in from time to time, thats tight for flying. You have to wrroy about pedestrians, dogs, light poles (I have hit 4 times with CX2, 400, 500). I am not saying you need to be a fly Park but the front yard is not prudent. My feeling is, if you hit someone with a 400 you hurt them and do bodily injury. If you hit some one with a 500 or the blades either on the heli or if broken off in crase will KILL then Grave Yard Dead PERIOD!

I have taken these pictures for you of a 400-500-600 side by side.
************************************************** ************************************************** *****************

My Last Crash and Why........I Think.

I have heard from many of you and the call was the same, you all heard low head speed on my 500 crash video. While I was in idle-up my R's were lower than they should have been. So last night I charged all of my packs. Today I went to my ALONE field with a buddy so he could watch and note what is going on while I fly. I flew in idle-up through 4 sets of double 2250 25C packs. The truth came on the last flight. I must preface all of this with...........I flew farely hard but no 3D, I am not loosing this puppy again. On the last pack I was in 3 minutes in and I spiker her twice HARD.........near nothing happened! ! ! my "amps" are gone[:@]. The pack came low 2.5 on voltage too and no poop in the AMP department. I did not get through all of my packs but I feel now I can say that with "forsureness" (if there is such a word) that worn out packs and the broken elevator servo tab both added to my failure to be able to pull out of the flips and rolls.

You heard it here first from JPEE

evdreamer

JPEE,

That is good your 500 is flying good again.

I got out and flew again. I got 5 flights in with the Velocity and 1 in with the 600. I had another glow plug burn out on me. I don't know if I have too much current going through my power panel, so I turned it down just enough to start the engine. My new tool sure worked good. It only took a minute or less to change it out.

Glenn,

Didn't you say you had problems with the stock ESC on the B400. There is a guy at my field having power issues with his B400, so I recommended he get a 35A ESC.

Nick

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

JPEE,

Nice investigation work on finding out your batteries were part of the issue with your last crash.

What brand (I beleive you said Turnigy or Flightmax?) and how old are they? I have been looking at the 6S 25C and 30C 3000mAh batteries at Hobbycity (Turnigy and Flightmax) because a few guys over at Helifreak say the larger 3000 packs help to really balance out the heli due to its heavy rear-ended-ness.

Nick,

Glad to hear you got to fly. Sorry to hear your burning out glowplugs but I think until you tack down all the parameters of your powerpanel that'll be expected. At least you can change them out fast.

I also got a chance to fly this morning. Finally got a chance to try out some maneuvers I had been practicing on the sim - basically a double roll and a large loop. The double roll went surprisingly nice - one right after another, just like on the sim.

However the loop was hideous. I have been starting it from a stationary point and applying full positive collective/full power and applying some up elevator to start the loop. Near the top I am coming to near midstick (0 pitch) with just a bit of neg pitch (up to this point all's looking nicely ). It's where I am exiting the loop that things fall apart. On the downside I am adding positive pitch and still down elevator and the heli just winds up going into a midair hover... way up high. Obviously I'm missing something. Maybe I need to have a going start? For more momentum? Going to give it another try tomorrow morning.

Mark

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Wow I missed alot today...

I didn't fly, it was just too windy for me to have enjoyed it, still 15-18 MPH winds...flyable, but not fun, as you guys know...

Instead, I went over the B400 with a fine tooth comb, lubed everything, checked it over, and pulled the motor, and installed my Boca ceramic bearings in it...even though the bearings felt pretty good...now I can not worry about motor brearings for a good long while maybe all season...

I debated pulling the 450 motor, but I figured I'd fly it this week instead of the B400, and squeeze the last life out of the stock motor before it comes out...I was watching a video of a guy taking apart a Trex 500 motor, and it looks like a huge PITA, so I'm not going there, plus the Align motor tends to run quite hot, which I have heard that switching to the Scorpion helps alleviate quite a bit...

Helistyle,

HEY! How have ya been?

Not too much new here, things are starting to finally pick up now that it's spring, and everyone is out flying again...how's the 250? Any other aircraft since that one?

Still debating on the move to Arizona?

Work and school still keeping you going all the time??


jreue,

I'll put my 2 cents in on the 500 here for ya...and JPEE may or may not agree on all of it...

1. NO. I am restricted very much on how much I fly my 500 for just the reasons/places you mentioned...the 500 for pilots of our skill (i.e. we can't perform 3D in a place as small as a gymnasium like the pros) we need lots of room for a 500....it's big, and has alot of mass, and when it gets going, you'd better have a place for it to go...I am NOT comfortable at all flying mine on a midsize baseball field...I CAN fly it there...but it's just no fun...as JPEE stated, a 500 needs lots of breathing room to enjoy it.....

Having said that...if one DOES have enough room, it is an amazing experiece to fly!! THE most enjoyable flights I had was when I had mine a the huge baseball (full size, 375 foot fences) field, and had lots of room, and I still could have used more room...

Summary....carefully consider where you want to fly, before you go jumping into it! I LOVE my B400 and 450 Pro, because I can throw them in the car, go to the local ball fields and just fly....muchm more convienient...my alternatives for the 500 are to go to my local club, and fight with the plane guys for airspace, or drive 25 miles to a dedicated heli field....

2. You won't be able to use the 65's on the 500, sell them with the B400. The Align servos that come on the ESP are DS510's and are not metal gear, and will strip in a crash...

3. Torque tubes are awesome. Painful and more expensive when you crash, or even touch the tail to the ground...so something to keep in mind. Very nice as far as being maintenance free, no static to worry about etc...

4. No idea on current prices.

I will add to what JPEE stated...a B400 is one thing if it gets out of control and even if it hits you....but, you DO NOT want to be anywhere near a 500 (or larger!) heli if it gets out of control...you want to seriously KEEP YOUR DISTANCE from it...I learned that real early on, had a very scary experience with mine, a 500 is very powerful, has a much higher power to weight ratio than a 400/450, and things can get out of hand very quickly!!!

Like I said, just my 2 cents, some may agree or disagree, I'm just tellin' my expereinces....I might be alot more in love with my 500 if I could fly it more often...but my circumsances aren't the greatest for that...but when I do get a chance to really get it in the air with room, it's a blast!!

Nick,

The stock ESC on the B400 is a joke...they are barely adeaquate for the job at hand, and are very prone to failure, even when not abused....your recommendation was right on...

Cool that you got some flying in....sorry about the glow plug issues...yeah, sounds like too much current to me too...the filiment in those is fairly fragile, and a bit too much current might just do them in...

I know that under normal circumstances, they can last a very long time, even an entire season, if cared for...and not allowed to overheat, or run lean for long...

Mark,

Cool on your progress with the twin rolls, I have not even done any single ones yet...

My first loops were also rather feeble attemps at something that resembled a loop...lol...keep at it....wouldn't it be great if it just went like the sim everytime??

JPEE,

Sounds like your investigation has turned up the culprits! Now, what to do? I guess time to look and see what Hobby City has for packs???


Looks like some nice weather here for the upcoming week...hope everyone else has the same!

Glenn

JPEE

Glenn,

I agree 100% with everything you said to Jreue, ( send me the check you promised if I agreed with what you said oops! ) I do Jreue agree 100% with my firend Glenn, especially the part

about throwing a 400-450 in the back seat and go fly anywhere, thats why I have the 3 Blade 400s and now the 450 nearly done. I will say when I finish the 450 my goal is to sell off all

of the Eflite stuff complete and be down to the 3 helis. I am making room for my Align 700E that has now been released to to the public. I am not jumping on the band wagon soon. I

have two more months to complete my house and I am not starting any builds until this thing is behind me.



Nick,
Sorry the glow plug pooped out again. I have every confidence you'll nail the problem down soon. And having that new "hand crafted tool must really be a Godsend. It's great to hear you

got numerous flights in today too.


Mark,
My packs that failed were bought on July 09. They have nearly 60 flights on them. They were the Yellow Rhinos 2250 25C.

As you mentioned, several guys here are flight the Flightmax 3000, 3300 packs. I was told so I do not know this as truth there is a 3800

pack out now. I like the big packs and they do set the balance, I have 39-69 grams ( I forgot ) in the nose of my 500 so the larger

battery is cool. But I have read that the 3300 -3800 are a bit heavy for 3D. The reason I HATE to get the those 3000 packs is, then thats all

they will fit, my 500. Right now with the 3S 2250s I can fly them together as a 6S in my 500, my 400s helis and now my new 450 and my

T-28 plane and............and can two by squeezing them in on my Aprentice Plane to as it has a single 3300 battery that is made for that

plane only. So as you can see MULTI use of my packs is practicle.


ME: I have a problem. I cannot get any of the screws out of my TT tail box. I wanted to check the bearings and GREASE them and double check the screws for Loctite but holy cow!

with every tool I own I cannot get ANY screw on the tail box, blade grips NOTHING loose. I hat the ideas torching it to break things loose but I might have to. Sheet man, that sucks

evdreamer

Mark,

That is good you got to fly too.

I was doing some power loops today too. If you add a little more down elevator and a little more negative pitch at the top you can push the heli out of a hover. You can also do that after the top to push the heli sideways.

Glenn,

Hopefully the Boca Bearings will last longer.

How long does the rear bearing last in an engine? I was hearing some weird noises from my heli today during the last flights. I don't know if it is another bearing in the heli, the gears, or the engine. Everything seemed fine when I looked the heli over. I have about 40 flights and 6 hours of flight time on the engine.

JPEE,

Sorry about your screws. I assume it is the 500?

Nick

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

JPEE,

I completely see your point on using the 3S packs, very multi-taskable!

I will most likely sell off my 450 when I get a 500 and so will not have a need for my 3S packs. But that's my case - I don't think I could keep up with more than 2 heli's at a time.

Also, don't you feel the handling difference when going from your 500 to your 400? I've noticed that my 450 is very sensitive to inputs, almost on the twitchy side so to speak. I'm actually looking forward to the move upward. A bit more stability would be nice.

Do you mean the screws for the TT tail box on your 450? The 8 screws won't budge? I wouldn't do the torch thing (or if you do be very careful) b/c the tail box is plastic. [X(] I think I had to use opposite drivers and do them as a pair going in opposite directions to get them loose. Of course mine didn't have any loctite so they weren't that hard. Hope things work out for you.

Glenn,

Sorry to hear about the wind. I keep telling you your going to have to become an early morning flier!

At least you were able to use your time going over your heli's. Boca ceramic's aye? That motor now will outlast your entire heli!

jreue,

2 places that I've been looking for pricing on the 500ESP:

Flying-Hobby has special sales at random times and that is the price that JPEE is talking about - his friend Choppersrule (Dave) got an ESP kit for $468. They are in China and that was with shipping. Mind you this kit is only the Align 450M motor, Align 60Amp ESC, and 3 Align DS510 digital servo's (nylon gears, not metal gears). No gyro or tail servo. This kit also comes with the Torque tube - don't know yet if it has the older style frames or the new ones (with the lower battery mount).

The other place is performaceplusrc.com. They sell a barebones 500ESP that they strip of servo's, motor, and ESC for $299. You have to be a member of Helifreak and email them specifically for the deal though. Obviously this gives you the option of adding your own stuff and not going the clone route.

The only thing that can be used on a 500 from a 400 (or 450) would be the battery. Two 3S packs can be combined to give a 6S pack. The rest should stay with the 400 heli.

Mark

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Thanks Nick for the tip!

I can visualize the heli as it rounds out over the top how the extra negative pitch and more down ele will get her out of the hover I was experiencing.

Will be something I'll try come sunup!

Mark

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Lunchtime here....but it's looking good for maybe some flights after work, still a bit on the windy side, but getting better all the time...the rest of the week looks nice on the forecast though..

JPEE,

When I did the motor bearings on the B400, the motor to mount screw was stuck, and rounded out, even with my nice fitting hex driver....so I resorted to the old trick with the dremel, cutting a slot for a regular screwdriver with a cut off wheel, and it came right out....of course, you'll destroy the screw, but sometimes that's the easiest way to go....worked like a champ for me!

Good luck with it...or instead of a torch, you could try a heat gun to melt the threadlock, remember the old rule, loctite melts and loses it's bond at around 185 F. or so...

Nick,

That's not many hours on the engine, it shouldn't need bearings yet at that tender age...but I have heard some guys having issues with premature bearing failures now and again...if you can't find the source of the noise in the heli, it might be a good idea to pull the engine and have a look, rather than risk an in-flight failure. Also, like electric motors, if you catch a bad bearing early on, you may save the crankshaft, or even the crankcase, if the bearing locks up...[X(]

Today's fuels are pretty good, and have a lot of anti corrosion additives. What usually causes the bearings to fail prematurely is corrosion from absorbing moisture over the winter months...back in the day, we used to use something called "After Run"....it was an oil that you dripped into the carb opening, and with the glow plug removed, spin the engine over to spread it out inside the engine, hopefully reducing corrosion for long term storage.

The whole reason the corrosion is an issue at all is the methanol in the fuel, it loves moisture...and will attract it to any metal parts...so a thin film of oil during storage helps prevent that.

The new fuels really cut down on that though...I was running Cool Power heli fuel in the Raptor, and when I disassembled the engine after it did it's self-destruction deal, there was a good bit of oil on all the internal parts...nice to see...Cool Power claims you don't need after-run oils with their fuel...and I think I agree...

Mark,

I am hoping the Boca ceramics will last all season, with a little oil now and then to keep them happy...

I love this hobby...but you won't see me getting up early to go fly!!! I'm a night owl, always have been, always will be I guess....maybe I should take up night flying!!!

Have fun with the loops!

Glenn

jroo

Whoa!

FlyingHobby has a 450 Sport with DS410M metal gear cyclic, gyro, DS420 rudder, 2 batteries, and extra blades for $399!

How can i tell if this is a V3? Is there any way?

jroo

As far as Ican tell, looks like a V3 sport. Would you guys go Sport or Pro?

evdreamer

Glenn,

Yeah I was using Cool Power fuel for the majority of the flights too. Now I switched to Byrons Rotor Rage, since that is all the LHS sells now. That also claims to not need after run oil. I had the carb closed and the exhaust pipe plugged up during winter.

My circuit boards came a day early! So far they fit in the case and all the major holes are in the right spot. That was one of my big concerns. Now I just hope all the parts fit. Once I get things soldered up I will take a pic of it.

Nick

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Hi all,

Here's a vid from this mornings flight. I just felt really 'off' while flying - everything I tried just turned out sloppy. Oh well, I guess we all have those days!

Here's the vid:

http://www.vimeo.com/11045195

Mark

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

jreue,

I don't know enough about the sport to comment....but I love my Pro!

Seems like a pretty good price...

Nick,

So you had the circuit boards custom made for your application in the power panel? I'm a little confused?

Sounds like you took good care of the engine over the winter, maybe it's a bearing in the heli somewhere?

Mark,

Nice job on the vid! I have done a few of those stationary rolls like that, I always have better luck with backflips, they seem easier to me...yours look better than mind did...

When you said double rolls, I was thinking like barrel rolls while in forward flight...I have not tried any of those yet, but it seems simple enough...sure is easy on the sim...but we know how that goes...lol...

Loops are kinda hard to make look right at first, so don't be discouraged...they'll get better, I have only tried a couple of times...dunno if you have seen this vid or not...it's when You Tube was messed up, and it came out in slow motion, kinda funny, and sorta neat at the same time...

Needless to say, the audio was fine, but the vid was slow mo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krTCaM6uvM4


Glenn

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Glenn,

I think it was just one of those days. You know when you are unpacking your heli and you can already feel the nervousness. Unfortunately they didn't go away. []

Don't worry, not going to allow discouragement a place to settle here! Will try again tomorrow morning.

Haven't tried any rolls while in forward flight, guess I'm trying to tack down the stationary ones and have been trying to hold them while in the inverted postion as well. That is my major goal this year... to have a stable invert hover (in real life ).

Out of my 2 battery packs this morning I did have one nice loop (Nick's advice helped a lot ), and of course it wasn't when I was using my camera.

jreue,

Between the Pro and Sport - if you have any doubt and are still touching the tail on landings go with the Sport with the belt. The Torque tube on the Pro is nice but it really is unforgiving. Any type of hit can cause an issue that will require you to take things apart and check before the next flight.

JPEE,

Hope you were able to get the tail boom assembly apart.

Nick,

Glad to hear you got your circuit boards. Christmas in...April?!?

On my nitro engines in my planes, I noticed that the residue oil will come to rest at the bottom of the engine in whatever orientation it is sitting in during storage. For example, my engine is positioned sideways in my Funtana and so all the "goop" accumulates on the side of the engine. I take it with your setup, the engine sits vertically so all the residue will come to rest at the bottom plate of the engine. Possibly one of the upper bearings may have gotten a bit dry? Talk with some of the guys at your club and see if anyone will help you in a proper engine disassembly and check/clean procedure. That way you won't have to go at it on your own on a $200 engine. Just an idea.

Mark

P.S. - Glenn, will have to check your vid out when I get home in the morning.

JPEE

Hey Guys,

Well the rain did not come today AGAIN! lol So we ran to our big open field and I flew the rest of my batteries in thr 500, I think 4 flights and I found another two batteries that are done/toast, no C's left in them. We could really hear the RPMs drop. The one bad set dropped out in 2 minutes. The other packs ran the full time but the R's were really low when I landed. So thats 4 batteries that will not go back onto the 500.

I made some awsome progress on the 450 Pro. Tomorrow I will set my tail rod to length, put on the canopy studs, landing gear, blades and we are ready to rumble! And of course set the tracking ......FINALLY she will be done.

Mark congrats on the loop!

I thought about people idea's for heating ther screws for the tail and thought OH!!! a soldering gun just on each screw head! But I didn't do it, I found I could take the tail box 100% down and grease all of the bearing and re-assemble. The only thing I cant do is grease my blade grips as those screws are over Loctited from the factory. Perhaps when I have some extra time I will try to heat those few screws and get those blade grips off and grease them.

Smiles to all..........JPEE

evdreamer

Mark,

That is good you got to fly today.

Glenn,

Yeah I had the circuit board custom made. I got everything assembled and noticed many problems. A few of the holes weren't big enough for the parts, so I took a dremel to the leads. Then the case isn't tall enough for all the wires I have to jam in it. When I hooked the battery up I heard a big pop. I think the 5V regulator is shot. The circuit for the fuel pump and starter motor is working, so I will have to trouble shoot the rest of the circuit later. I have it out of the case and soldered all the connectors to the wires right now.

JPEE,

Sorry you have some more bad batteries.

Nick

Steve

My Feedback: (54)

I've been flying my CPP2 and also have the 450 Sport. But I've only hovered the 450. I have a mental block getting it into forward flight. With the CPP2 I'm comfterble zooming it around back and forth,,no inverted yet and I haven't flipped the switch to idle 1. I'm still flying in normal mode only. Did you have any trouble transitioning from your CPP2 to the 450?

jroo

Pulled the trigger last night and ordered the Align TRex 450 Sport. This is, in fact, the new version 3 so I'm real happy about that. Comes with absolutely everything, even 2 batteries for $399. It's been marked as shipped already so I should have it in just a few days. Now, I have to figure out what to do with the B400...

evdreamer

Jreue,

Congrats on the new heli.

Nick