jroo

Take for instance the Zippy 2200mAh which I have.
[link=http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6306]Zippy 2200mAh[/link]

Here is states:
Max Charge Rate (C) 2

If I wanted to charge at 2C, I would set my charger to 4.4A correct? Would it be safe to do this with my charger?

jroo

I've been doing a bit a searching to better understand C ratings on batteries.

Given a 2200mAh 20C pack, this is 44 AmpHours correct? (2.2A*20C)

My question is, what is the discharge rate of say something like the Align 450M motor in C? I understand it will vary because we are not always running at full throttle, but lets just assume we are. Can the Max Continuous Current of 39A be converted to C somehow?

Align 450-M
- Input voltage: DC 7.4-14.8V 2-4cell Li-Po
- Max continuous current: 39A
- Max output power: Approximately 400 Watts
- KV value: 3500KV


In the examples I've seen thus far, folks always say '...assume the battery s discharged at 10C'. Why 10C? Does the ESC regulate it somehow to this?

Just would like some enlightenment....

evdreamer

Jreue,

Your charger wouldn't be able to charge at 4.4A with a 3S battery. It would limit it to 3.98A. 50W/12.63V=3.98A

AmpHours and Amps are two different things. When you deal with the C ratings you get rid of the hours and just deal with Amps. So with a 2.2Ah 20C battery would be able to discharge 44A.

There is no discharge rate of the motor, since it doesn't supply current like the battery on a heli. Airplanes are different because they use the brake option. With no throttle and the motor spinning it will supply current back to the battery. The more current it supplies the faster the motor will stop. It is easier to work with Amps and not C ratings. So I always convert the C rating to Amps.

I have never heard of people assuming the battery discharges at 10C. Because with different capacitites the current would always be different at 10C's. The ESC doesn't regulate the current to 10C's because it doesn't know the capacity of the battery. It should keep the current under the max current of the ESC though.

Nick

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Jreue,

I also believe that even though the Zippy's are capable of being charged at 2C it would reduce the batteries life. Your best bet would be to get yourself several Zippy's from HC (say 4 or so) and you may want to up the C rating from 20 to 30 - I think you'll enjoy the added zip the higher C rating gives.

Nick,

Yes it was nice to get to fly again. Hopefully you'll be able to get things squared away with your FBL and get your Velocity airborne again.

Glenn,

Your absolutely right about fine tuning your skills just by shrinking your flying area - the fear of crashing into something will do that just nicely. Right now it's something I'll just have to get used to.

Another thing to get used to is limiting my flying to just two 5 minute flights before work. 6:30 is the earliest I can fly (enough light at that time) and I have to be at work at 7 so doesn't leave me much time. Usually the winds are too high in the afternoon (and the heat ) so that leaves only the morning. Yep, officially in the Jeff and JPEE early morning club!

Mark

jroo

Nick,
In your 50W/12.63V=3.98A equation, where does the 12.63V come from?

evdreamer

Jreue,

The max Voltage for a LiPo cell is 4.21V. For a 3S battery 3*4.21V=12.63V.

Nick

evdreamer

Guys,

I am glad I didn't send in my V-bar because all of a sudden it is working. I don't have the gyro attached to the heli, but I am moving it around and the tail gyro is working now. I just hope it isn't an intermittent thing and stop working again.

Nick

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Nick,

That is a strange thing for it to suddenly start working again. I would be a bit leary for now.

Did you hear anything from Mikado or did you contact Readyheli - they may have some insight into the strange behavior of your V-bar. Also, any luck with the forums?

Mark

evdreamer

Mark,

I just flew two tanks worth in my Velocity and everything seems to still be working. I had a weird wobble at first, so I thought it was the V-bar. It turned out to be the dampners causing it. So I just increased the HS by 200 RPMs and the wobble went away. That increased my engine temp, so I overheated it a little. So I made the engine a little richer. Now I just have one more problem left. The tail slowly spins CCW. I maxed the gain out and it is still not holding. I disabled the govenor and that helped a little, but it sounded like the HS was really high. So now I am thinking it might be a mechanical problem, gyro, or the programming. I am thinking about putting a normal tail gyro on and using the V-bar for just the cyclic. I might also try putting some different types of tail blades on.

The guy on the Mikado forum still hasn't replyed back to my post, but has for other posts.[&o]

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

That is weird that it started working again...although it sounds like something isn't quite right again though...it's a shame you have to go to a standard gyro when that one should be working well...

Hope the guy at Mikado gets to your question soon...

The SDX will wobble too if the HS is too low...it loves high HS with the stiff dampening that it has...glad you ironed that part of the problem out.

Good luck with it, and hope the tail blades help too.

I'm getting ready to fly. I'm going to take the Gaui along, since I finally got around to putting it on the 9503. Not expecting much, but should be fun.

Glenn

JPEE

Hi Guy's,

Jreue, let me say right up front, Nick is our Yoda here regarding anything to do with electronics' so take his word as 100% sound. Not to try and sway you I do want to post some information. I have 18-20 Zippy's from 2150 20C to 5000 40C packs. As Nick says, you can't go wrong with charging at 1C. However...................of late I have been changing up my charging pattern. Whenever I would come home from flying I would charger every pack back up. Those in my box that had not been used would stay charged for up to a week until I could get out again. I did rotate stock as it were. But now as an experiment and with a new deluxe charger that can charge 4 ea. 3S 2250 25C packs at once!, or 2 ea. 6S 5000 40C at once I don't charge until the night before. I am also charging at 2C. This "may" shorten their life, I don't know yet but is lengthening mine meaning the time I have to stand by while they charge. I can charge the batteries listed above to 100% 25 min max! I only charge outside my home or garage on a table. I have been tracking temps under this 2C charge rate and have not had one battery even get warm. But as Nick mention like anything else in life, if you rush it...............things "can" suffer but as I stated above I am taking the chance or a short life, they just aren't that expensive verses my time. I cannot go into it but Nick explained to me even with my new super charger that will charge at 360 watts maximum for the charger on both sides and 15 amps per side you cannot get that formula to work with the power input voltages, but it is still one kick ass charger.
Glenn, I hope you got some flying and the Gaui was good with it's new tail servo.
Nick, how weird but good the V-Bar is kind of back. I hope you get it nailed down so you can have peace of mind while flying and not sweating it out wondering.

JPEE

evdreamer

Glenn,

I looked for all my 600 tail blades and I noticed the Velocity carbon tail blades are identical in size/shape to the T-rex 600 tail blades.

Have fun with the Gaui. The new helicopter that Gaui developed looks pretty good.

Nick

JPEE

Nick, Glenn, you guys may know about this but if not here you go!

http://www.switchglo.com/

EDIT: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzc6XAQIP24&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]


JPEE

evdreamer

JPEE,

I have heard of those, but never seen a video of it.

I got my tail to hold a lot better than before, but it isn't as good as my 600. Most of the problem was in the govenor. I experimented with some tail blades, HS, and govenor gain. It will be awhile before I can take it to my field and try some 3D. I also need to adjust some cyclic settings and tune the engine some more. Then it should be a good flyer again.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Not much flying tonight...people everywhere....including a bunch of men looking around at MY heli field...lol....I think they are gettting ready for football season/practice...standing around looking like they are making plans....

Whatever they were doing there, I'm sure it's not in my best heli interests...lol...[sm=48_48.gif]

I did get a chance to test the Gaui, and trim it a bit. It flies pretty well, but the gyro (Eflite G110) leaves alot to be desired. I still need to spend more time with the tail. I overdischarged the pack, I forgot how quickly that thing eats up an 800 mAh pack...[X(]...in idle up, I only get about 4 mins of flight....

JPEE,

Thanks for the link/info on the switch glo...interesting. I am real happy with my Align 2 in 1 so far...one press on the ignitor button, and I'm off....but the switch glow seems convienient...

I didn't replace the tail servo on the Gaui, just looked over the tail stuff....

Nick,

I guess swapping the tail blades won't help much then between the 600 and Velocity...

Hope you can re-test it soon. I read the last post about the governor....

Which new Gaui are you referring to?

I wrote to RC Heli magazine...and right after, I got my August issue.. But, I never did get my July one...they are sending me both...

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

Sorry about your field.

I have 4 different types of 600 tail blades. The Velocity came with a carbon and plastic tail blade. Then I have a carbon blade from the 600. Then I have a K and B tail blade that I used to fly with. Right now I am using the Velocity plastic blade. It is the biggest tail blade I have.

I am talking about the Gaui X5. http://eng.gaui.com.tw/d981119/html/...iew.asp?sn=884

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

I see on the tail blades....you have quite a selection!

I have no control on the field...so I will just have to see what happens...I can't remember what happened at this time last year...but I know Pro football camps begin soon, and I am thinking they are getting the field ready for football...like installing the goal posts again...

Cool new Gaui heli....I have not seen many of the larger Gauis....they don't seem too popular here....but then again, neither do SDX's.....lol...

Glenn

rotarydoc

Nick,

I just watched Bobby and Bert's Smackdown RC vid on nitro engines...and it's real good...I didn't learn a whole lot...but they did a good job overall.

Definitely worth the $3 .....

It could use a little "polish" so to speak, but that will come with time. If you ever compare Finless's early vids with his newer ones, he gets alot better as time goes on, and I'm sure Bert and Bobby will too...

It's cool to watch, you kinda feel like you know them after you watch it...

One thing I did get out of it though, well, 2 things...finally, exactly where to measure engine temps, which is where I have been, on the crankcase, right below the head....and, Bert says 220 max there and preferably 200- 210...which I consdered on the high side, but he seems very comfortable with it...

They emphasize over and over not to let the engine get lean, not even for a short period. And they don't feel that a break in requires more than a few tanks of fuel, mainly just run it on the rich side, and don't let it get lean, ever....

Overall a well spent $3 and 45 minutes!

Glenn

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

JPEE,

Did you hear where that SwitchGlo video was taken? Looks like I'm going to have to track down that field - seems like a lot of heli guys there. [sm=thumbup.gif]

Nick,

Glad that you got your Velocity back again. Looks like trial and tribbulation now with sorting out the gyro, tail blades, head speed and so forth to get things crystal again.

Glenn,

Hope you don't lose the field to football practice. [] Any other areas open for flying - I know the field you and Justin go to is a long drive?

Mark

jroo

Almost done with my 250 rebuild. I ordered most of my parts from ReadyHeli. Their service is incredibly fast. I ordered on Monday and it was at my house on Wednesday.

Align Main Blade Grips: The arm of one of mine bent in the crash. The main rotor twisted and the arm of the main grip bent as it hit the button on the top of the head. I think someone here warned me of this when I was building it and told me to take it off...Looks like I didn't listen. Anyways, the one are marked 250 SE. They look exactly the same as my original ones, but it looks like arms are thicker and more robust. I like.
Align Belt: I may end up ordering one of the Kevlar belts from Flying-Hobby, but this one will do just fine for now.

I also ordered some 250 parts from HobbyKing as to compare with the actual Align stuff. The parts are so cheap from HK, I just had to order a few things and see what the quality is like. Here is a breakdown:

HK 250 screws bag: Lots of screws, but it seems the head is T5 TORX, not .05" HEX like the original Align screws.
HK 250 Tail Boom: Exact dimensions as the Align version, but a little lighter/thinner. Is a gunmetal silver in color, not black. Had just a little bit of metal in one of the holes that were drilled out; simply cut it out with an exacto knife.
HK 250 Main Blades: For less than $2 a pair, I got 2 sets. In the one I opened one blade was 12.0g and the other 12.1g. They were balanced well already, so just had to add a bit of tape to the COG. They are pretty soft though, and bend a bit when flexed; not as rigid as the Align variant. I'm curious how this is going to play out....
HK 250 Main Gear. I got 2, but have not opened the package. One-way bearing is already seated and comes with screws and washers. The odd thing is that the metal casing that is in the center around the bearing looks like it was cut out by hand. I don't think it will affect performance at all, but it's not a perfect circle by any means.
HK 250 battery plate. The stock battery plate has a plastic frame with a carbon top. In the crash, one of the screw holes broke on the plastic base. I ordered an aluminum one from HK. It went on fine, so we will see how it works in the field.

During the rebuild, I went through the entire head and resized every ball-link. Man, every single one was VERY tight. Instead of buying a ball-link sizing tool, I just took a space 250 ball, screwed it to the end of a 250 main shaft, and took and exacto and scored 2 cuts in the ball. It works like a CHAMP. I believe the head is working much better now. I always felt like the cyclic was a little delayed and I think it was because it was way to tight.

JPEE

Hey Boys, just time for a quick note.


Glenn, I am giving you a picture of a product tha tmight get that nut off of your clutch I think it was. This is from one of my Model Avation mags. Good luck on the Gaui and gettting the tail hold better too. Sorry about the those no-ah-counts taking over your flying areas

Jreue, I have used a lot of HK parts and find over all the metal parts, booms, CF fames, plastic and such are good. What is BAD is their CNC stuff. It is made of very very very soft metal. When I bought my 450 Pro from them is flew great! But one crash caused me to replace the blade grips. Then a screw stripped on the tail box, then several screws either broke off or stripped out. And lastly the antiroatation pin stripped out of the swash plate causing me to get a new Align one. When I built the HK Pro, I wanted a good flyer so I used their ESC and tail servo. But now some 90 days later I have a Align TT and bearing, blade grips, swash plate, upgraded 500 landing gear to raise it up, Align canopy and some other stuff I cant remember right now. So thats my story and I am sticking to it LOL

Nick, glad your making some headway on the Velocity!

Mark, no I am sorry I have not idea where that was shot. I did not even watch it to be honest..............I just saw part of it and thought of Glenn and Nick and sent it forward, SORRY[&o]

JPEE

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Mark,

The field that I was mentinoning is the same one I did those videos last weekend...it's basically my favorite field, because it's very close to home, (1 mile) kind of concealed off the road, so less gawking, and usually does not have any other activity going on, such as people walking out on the field, walking dogs, etc.

MHA, my club field is 23 miles away...so that's nearly a 50 mile round trip...do that twice in a weekend, and it puts a pretty good dent in the car's gas tank...and it's impractical from a traffic/time standpoint to go there after work...so it's a LOT more convienient to go to that field. We'll see, I think the football practice probably won't start for a few weeks yet...but I do remember them installing the uprights last year, then came the field markings, then the equipment, then the nightly practices on weeknights, which is what interferes with my schedule...

jreue,

Glad you got the head all free now, with the tight ball links, should smooth things out a bit.

Thanks for the mini review on the HK replacement parts for the 250...interesting...

JPEE,

Thanks for the link to the gun cleaning solvent.

A guy at my field gave me a tip...when it comes time, I'll take it to work, and heat a hex driver tip RED HOT with a torch, and then put it in the set screw, let it cool a minute (if it's red hot, it will just strip) and see how that works. I tried a soldering iron, but he suggested the super hot hex driver trick...

I'm not going to mess with it until I have to...no sense, really....

Glenn

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Well, I took the Gaui out again for some more tuning....the conditions were perfect...which means nearly zero wind...

My goodness....I am so glad I didn't sell it...I was going to...

I got the tail dialed in pretty well (for a G110 gyro..)...and for the first time, actually flew it with the proper headspeed, idle up at a 90% flat throttle curve...

This thing is a MISSLE...lol...I could not believe the speed is has through turns and in FFF...[X(]

I think smaller helis just tend to look faster...even though it's probably not any faster than my 450's....it sure looks like it...

Anyways, the thing is a blast to fly, I've got packs ready to go tonight if the wind stays calm...

How is everyone?

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

That is cool you enjoyed that engine video.

Good to hear the tail is acting better now on the Gaui.

I did some research on the Vbar and it looks like the drifting is due to vibration. I can see my vertical fin vibrating back and forth. I will try to tune the engine better and work some more on the govenor. I also found a cool calculator that helps get the right mechanical setup and the best gain setting. I worked a little bit on that this morning. It looks like I need to put some smaller servo horns on. Once I get the Velocity flying better I will try that calculator out on the 600.

Nick

JPEE

Hello Guy's
Sound like your research might pay off their Nick. Hopefully if you can stabilize that puppy let's hope that is your cure.

Glenn, glad the Gaui performed so nice for you. I'll bet your 50% right on that the size of that little bugger and head speed making it sound like a missile, plus that it is!


We had a busy day with the guys here all day installing our counters. Well just sitting here I thought? what a great day to see if I can get a heli flying again. On Thursday I took and jumped on the 450 again to see what that bearing sound was. I tore the "entire " TT system and checked every single piece and found nothing after a test hover and the noise was there. Then I pulled the motor and all apart and greased the bearings and reassembled, nope the noise was still there. So next I pulled the main gears out (aligns) and changed the inner tube that meets with the one-way bearing as it was still a clone product, nope still had the noise. Now with this new set of (align) gears I had gotten a new inner hub and one-way so I can't believe that is my ghost. But in good faith I can't rule anything out. So I installed the clone gears with a new inner one-way post and boom! the noise is gone, but...............
She flies really nice in the back yard and up high but................................while I can get the tail to hold in normal, once I switch to idle-up 1 the tail let's go! If I get trimmed re set in the air then she holds fine, but when I come back down to normal then the tails lets go again, dang-it! ! ! Any ideas anyone? I have one, something is wrong with the tail system DUH. So I took the servo rod off and found the tail slide moved I felt a notchyness, AH HA says I !!! So I tear the tail apart and found a bad bearing in one of the tail's blade grips. I buy all new bearings and re assemble and it is still KNOTCHY. I found to take the notchy out I had to back off one tails grips screw ever so little bit to free up that one blade grip. Well I am here to tell you that once again CLONE stuff sucks. But she now is smooth as glass. Does she fly right and tail hold now.....heck no! So I have put three packs through her in the back yard and the condition still exists.
Then today I took my least crashed Blade 400 and made some frame repairs and found that my sweet CNC head had damage from the last crash months ago, a blade grip was toasted. Well I am not buying another one I can tell you that. So I slapped in a stock head with woodies and she fly ok. She ain't no 450 Pro that's fro dang sure but she is a flier to keep on the shelf as a back up until this house gets done if ever lol. So I have two helis to play with until I can bring back my 500.
That's the name of that game JPEE out