yvesOttawa

Hey Clement, that remains true only for cyclic. The HH gyro will control the tail and if that one flakes out at 200 feet, good luck trying to land the thing Go for the Futaba 401. Better to spend the $$ up front than trash it later

Clement7

Thanks for the advice Yves! . . .

I just came from an ocular down south of the metro, a 800 hectare industrial park.. since I always have the SAVS with me in the car I offered to present to the client what can be covered at height of 150 feet. This impressed them a lot and gave me a check on the spot as a down payment!

Their first reaction after seeing the SAVS for the first time is, "Where's your helicopter??... er That's it??!??!?!"

I smiled back and said, "Yes!" then flew it straight up to the moon like a bat out of hell to get enough altitude to show them what this baby can do. I guesstimate that it's about 120 to 130 feet since the water tank /tower was at about 60 feet and the flyer was hovering more than twice the tower's height. These are times I wish I have a protractor with me, or an altimeter attached..

After seeing the results, that's when they gave me a thumbs up. We are scheduled to do a shoot using my helium balloon setup next week for a much higher altitude using the Canon Rebel (EOS 300D). I left the memory card at their office in my rush to meet another client, I'll try to post the pictures once I get the memory card back from them..

My next experiment with the 6MP setup is to come up with two to three overlapping good shots covering a different line of sight taken on the same altitude to stitch together and produce a panorama.

just like what I did on the following web site but at a higher altitude (upper left of screen click on View Panoramic)

[link=http://www.misibis.com/salesmap/block8.asp?block=8]http://www.misibis.com/salesmap/block8.asp?block=8[/link]

Clement7

Hey, I just got an e-mail from one of the leading providers of helicam mounts and this is what he has to say about FMA:

This simply means that we're still better off with our SAVS /DFVTi flying at higher altitudes! Unless you are a real skilled nitro heli pilot...

yvesOttawa

Pretty cool panoramas there Clement. But I always wondered how do you get those printed? I did this one with my DF for the city. Stitched 2 shots together, it was pretty easy.

Why R U using your balloon and not the SAVS?

That's an interesting comment about FMA. Alot of people say that they do work but then again, didn't Ti glitch on you causing the wireless setup to be toast? I'm sure they are as prone to hot patches like roof tops and cloudy skies just like Ti. Of well, can really say if they work or not since I don't use either.

Clement7

Another nice shot Yves! I'm still wondering what camera you're using with your DF...

When it's too windy for the DF to fly, that's when I use the balloon. At that time when I shot the panoramas, I haven't tried using the Ti again yet and take advantage of its levelling features..

Some photo developers /printers do print panoramas.. but of course I have to split the 360 degrees first and export it as TIFF or JPG.. then I use Photoshop FILE>PRINT WITH PREVIEW>SCALE TO FIT MEDIA, PAGE SETUP>LANDSCAPE (A4--popular size for most ink jet printer photo papers).

Re FMA.. another good point there.. well I guess we all wouldn't know unless we try it ourselves..

yvesOttawa

Clement, how can you pan across with a balloon? must be a special balloon you're not willing to share with us

Clement7

It's a low tech way.. couldn't afford the $3K rig with pan and tilt (remotely controlled with servos), so I just asked Southern Balloon Works to create a simple L-type bracket to allow me to attach the camera to the balloon.. then instead of a single tether line, I made use of two lines, one attached to two hooks on the left side of the balloon, and another line to the other two hooks on the opposite side. How it works is I use a video downlink I got from them (made in Taiwan) together with the glasses I got from DFI to monitor the shots coming from the Canon EOS 300D.. The tilt is fixed already for the camera to have a good oblique angle at 150 feet up. I had a string attached to the lense of the camera and tied it to the bracket to have a fixed oblique angle.. I have two balloon handlers to assist me with the shoot. If I need to turn the balloon, I direct one of them to either make a few steps forward or backward to face the direction where I want the camera to point.. We just pre-marked a point on the line that reads how many feet of line has been released already to have at least some reference point of the height. Low tech but this less than US$700 setup works! Bottomline is: The client doesn't mind which equipment I use, as long as I get the shot.

So the DF/SAVS+Helium Balloon combo is perfect! Now I'm considering of buying a kite from KAPSHOP for very very windy situations (like how it's been out here lately).. and maybe a V50 Electric soon after (for taking shots under moderate wind conditions).. so I'll have complete spectrum of options for getting the AP job done.

[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/fishingvillage-lowres.jpg]www.easysoftwaretech.com/fishingvillage-lowres.jpg[/link]
[link=http://www.easysoftwaretech.com/heliumballoon1.jpg]www.easysoftwaretech.com/heliumballoon1.jpg[/link]

So Yves, your turn to share.. what digital camera are you using with your DF?

Clement7

It's official. The rainy season is here.

Manila, Philippines 5-day forcast: It will rain everyday till Wednesday next week. []

detroitdr

Clement7,

I'm interested in hearing more about your Balloon setup. A couple of questions:

1) Do you have to fill that everytime you go out to shoot.. 6' is too big to travel unless you deflate it?
2) If you do deflate it what does it cost you to inflate it everytime you take a picture?
3) How much will your 6' balloon pull up?
4) Could you only have 1 tether line, and a rig that lets you pan and scan with downlink to take a picture?
5) What do you use for a tehter line and where do you mount it? (Could you tether it to a back of a truck?)

Thank-you for your info!!

Clement7

Yes. I had a trailer custom-made to carry the very heavy helium tank.

About $100 for the helium refill per shoot/session. But if it's within a big property, one refill with do. When I do a shoot for a golf course or farm estate, I attach the balloon temporarily to my trailer then drive slowly to the next spot (of course, tether lines retracted).

Up to 5 pounds. [link=http://www.southernballoonworks.com/aerial-photography.html]http://www.southernballoonworks.com/aerial-photography.html[/link]

Yes, but since I did not avail the fail-safe mechanism that can be triggered remotely (Emergency Valve release $200), it makes sense to have two lines attached to the balloon in case one breaks. It's a scary thought to see your balloon drift away with a $1,000++ camera gear. Plus it's hard to control and prevent the helium balloon from spinning around, especially during windy conditions.

For safety, you can do that, but since some shoots require finding the right spot, we walk around with the balloon with line ends attached to each of the balloon handler's belt for safety.

With this setup I can shoot up to an altitude of 450+ feet, but for safety reasons, getting oblique shots between 150 to 300 feet usually makes most of my clients happy already.

detroitdr

Clement7,

Thank-you for that information!!!

Couple more quick questions:

1) What wind speed is the balloon ok to "fly" in? I believe you said the DF was for no wind and when it gets windy you use your 6' balloon.
2) When your done shooting, do you completly deflate the balloon?

Thank-you again!

Clement7

Since I have 2 tether lines, even up to 25MPH wind is OK.. just be sure to have enough clearing or you'll end up tangling the lines with trees and electric poles..

Yes.. I use the inflator/deflator that came with the AIRBED I bought from ACE HARDWARE.. I also bought an inverter for my SUV so I can plug deflator in to aid me to get the helium out..

One more piece of advice: Attach a line from the strap mount of the camera to one of the balloon's harness as an added safety in case the bracket gets detached from the helium balloon.

OK Doc, I hope the above info helps.. oh, btw, I found out a gyro that functions like FMA but a lot better since it's not dependent on thermal readings.. A friend of mine who's really into RC helis and scales (GSRs and size 90s etc) gave me the following link:

[link=http://au.vario-helicopter.biz/shop/product_info.php?products_id=36278]http://au.vario-helicopter.biz/shop/product_info.php?products_id=36278[/link]

He claims that the FMA is not bad, as long as you follow instructions to the letter and make use of whatever additional buffers as required by the first release of CoPilot. But he is more confident with the multi-blade gyro (used with his multiblade heli).. He also added that HE WONT DARE FLY HIS HELIs when shooting near and around people, SAVS is the best choice for doing such shoots.. and ELECTRICS like the V50 is safer for your camera and a lot easier to maintain.. since NITRO HELIS spit out a lot of grease and nitro, which may damage the camera.

detroitdr

Clement7,

Last question (I promise)

I called them and they said to use INDUSTRIAL HELIUM, not "part store" heluim..... What do you use? (I'd rather not use industrial as it'll cost me $200 every fill!!!)

Clement7

Hi Doc! No prob! Balloon-grade.. that's how my supplier calls it.. the industrial is for chem labs..

I just had a meeting with a friend who's really into rc helicopters.. He owns a GSR Voyager (Petrol-powered), and 3 more size 90s which he was so kind enough to bring with him and show me the works.. His advice is to avoid nitros for AP work since it spits oil and nitro sprays all over the place.. very bad for the camera lenses and housing! He has the new version of CoPilot installed.. uses it as a FAIL SAFE mechanism, flies with it disabled most of the time.. but like our SAVS, it works for him when flying at very high altitudes except over large bodies of water..

Sky High

How about this for an AP balloon? 80,000 ft!

www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543459

Clement7

Wow! Awesome!! I guess that's what my camera will be shooting should my tether lines break. Hahah!

Thanks for posting that Sky!

Sky High

I'm real skeptical about this working in any significant wind but here is another inflatable airship being developed for AP.

www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543794

www.rchoverdisc.com

detroitdr

Sky: Interesting unit.... I don't think that would really hold up in windy with a payload for ap... but who knows? Looks fun!!

Clement: I got my 6' balloon. Filled it with air today to see if I can move it around in my F150 bed. Looking to make a pan/tilt/shoot thingy to control my cameras..... I'll let you know how that goes!!

Clement7

Hey Doc! Way to go! Welcome to the fun world of helium balloons, where people think of me as a clown when I walk around with it. Never fails to put a smile in anyone's face, plus that priceless look of amazement. Always be ready to shoot people's reaction when they see your balloon.. it's perfect for advertising as well, you can put stickers on it of your logo and contact number /website..

I'm not sure if I've posted it in this forum already--- deflating the helium is not that easy.. I use a big roll of bubble wrap and lay it on the ground when deflating the helium.. try using an airbed inflator/deflator with extra care to suck the helium out.. I just realized recently that helium is harmful to your lungs.. how in the world did those comedian get away with sucking helium and talking like chipmunks? I use an inverter in my SUV to supply me 220V to power the inflator/deflator when I'm done for the day..

Share some pictures of your setup and AP work doc!

detroitdr

Thx clement.

Actually a note for you back on this SAVS 6mb topic. I went and bought a Pentax S6 with the LEDir thingy to take pictures. I extended the legs of the DF and mounted the camera with 3 elestics to hold it in place. I used the battery like on the SAVS unit to counter balance the camera perfectly on the DF.

It works fine HOWEVER is extermely un-pratical for AP..... if there is any wind being already at the top end of weight it becomes very unstable as it takes longer to react to inputs.... I've basically written it off for doing AP with it unless they get 6mb cames weighing 40 grams.... :>

I wouldn't want to smash my unit with it anymore. I can take pics if you want to see what I did to test it..... but it doesn't work outside with wind.

Clement7

Hi Doc! Yes! Very true! That's the very frustrating part about the DFVTi+6MP setup.. I really am starting to hate the wind a lot. But it can serve now as an option, a cheapest most quickest setup and alternative of taking pictures for clients. So let's say I arrive at the scene very early in the morning when usually there's not much thermal going on yet, --with a full spectrum of options to do the AP work (helium balloon, a conventional heli and DFVTi/SAVS). And the client goes, "I just need an oblique shot of the property.. one good picture would do for press release, any shot above the rooftop (2 floors up) will do.. and by the way, I'm just willing to pay you $200 for the shot".. Then I get lucky there's NO WIND with a perfect weather which is good enough for Ti.. Which AP platform would you think I would use to do a fast one?

Just keep you DFVTi/SAVS handy for quickies..

As I mentioned in my previous posts, I don't do AP per se. And the DF is not an all out solution for AP work.. The AP work I do always comes with an integrated package. Since we offer Web Site Development and Corporate Video Presentations /TVC /Infomercials, having the DF setup available to take quicky shots is an edge over our competition.

Fesfly

Hello everyone,
Thanks for all great information on this topic, motor wear, props, weight. I'm very new to this and need to learn a lot before I take off but want to show you the solution I am putting together. I have never flown the DF - just got it and will not fly it with camera until I have lots of practice. Here I have wedged (will improve with elastics) a canon sd30 5mp with the battery offset a bit to balance everything. The minor flex in the carbon fiber base and the dimensions of the camera are perfect to allow you to angle the camera almost anyway you want. The canon doesn't have a remote switch, I hope to use the custom timer function - wait 30 sec take X number of pics or the video. Or just tie down the shutter switch in continuous mode until it fills a 2g memory card.

Let me know what you think!

scottslc

Looks cool. How much does the camera weigh?

Fesfly

Thanks, I hope the simplicity of the solution makes it stable. The camera weighs 3.7 oz without the small battery. I notice the outer metal shell of the camera can be removed easily (I guess because they come in different colors) so that may take some weight off. I was disappointed that I could not find a camera with the dimensions and weight that had a remote bulb function, but elated that I can adjust the custom timer - a max of 30sec before it starts shooting and also input the number of pictures to take when it starts. I tested that function and the camera always autofocuses between shot which should be helpful, or maybe not.

Here is another view - obviously needs some work but it looks possible.

cre8web

come on guys, this like reading a novel and the last few pages are missing?
what are you all doing now??

i thought waiting for davinci code movie was bad, the suspense is killing me

Marty