BIG LAMA
09-06-2009, 04:36 AM
#1351
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: downunderdog
You end up backing the heli into things a lot... If you're used to trottling down when you start getting into trouble, when you change modes your new ''reflex'' (when panicked) is to apply backwards elevator, backing you into whatever is behind you pretty hard. At least There's not a spinning rotor back there, and the back of the heli (Lama V3 in my case) kind of acts as a bumper.
Mine came in mode 1, but after I played with it for a bit I decided I thought mode 2 made more sense (all the cyclic controls on my right hand) and swapped it over. It would be hard to make the change after a long while of flying in one mode, but I think I did it early enough in my learning that I'm not permanently scarred... my flying problems are due to lack of practice and coordination, not the fact that I'm thinking with the wrong thumb anymore.
If i tried or changed to mode 2 It be like driving a car with accelator on lefthand side pedal. lol.
Mine came in mode 1, but after I played with it for a bit I decided I thought mode 2 made more sense (all the cyclic controls on my right hand) and swapped it over. It would be hard to make the change after a long while of flying in one mode, but I think I did it early enough in my learning that I'm not permanently scarred... my flying problems are due to lack of practice and coordination, not the fact that I'm thinking with the wrong thumb anymore.
I know exactly what you mean!
I have only ever flown mode2 and (by chance) the fight sim that was bought along to the heli-meet was a mode1. It took me nearly as long to adapt as it does from me flying a BOL which basically keeps itself stable and upright to a DragonFly #4 FP (just like a Honeybee FP
) which is as unstable as anything out there......
(well, nearly!)Anyway, after about 10 minutes of trying I finally "clicked" and flew the Notar through a barn, and loops, and rolls, circuits, flare-outs, hovers etc - so it IS possible to change - just difficult!
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
09-06-2009, 07:45 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: RC_Addiction
Hey Beachcomber,
I still have not received and tried mine but so far the blades that gave me the lesser conning were the Walkera Lama 400D blades, they are about hallf an inch or longer and fly very nicely.
RC_Addiction,
Hey Beachcomber,
I still have not received and tried mine but so far the blades that gave me the lesser conning were the Walkera Lama 400D blades, they are about hallf an inch or longer and fly very nicely.
RC_Addiction,
09-06-2009, 08:13 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: Beachcomber
I'm unhappy and disappointed with the new Xtreme blades for my Big Lama. I was hoping they would be stiffer (less flexible) than stock. They might be less brittle than stock (haven't had crash yet) but they are much more flexible than stock. Cone up quite a bit, which puts me into the blade strike area again. Going to have to tape the lower blades again. Damn.
I'm unhappy and disappointed with the new Xtreme blades for my Big Lama. I was hoping they would be stiffer (less flexible) than stock. They might be less brittle than stock (haven't had crash yet) but they are much more flexible than stock. Cone up quite a bit, which puts me into the blade strike area again. Going to have to tape the lower blades again. Damn.
I'm sorry the Extreme Blades are not up to your flying style. Maybe you could cover the lower blades with clear parcel tape to make them a little stiffer. I must say that I don't have any probs with them - I have had one blades slap and then recovered well from it due to my altitude when I was flaring out after a speed run....I couldn't even tell whether it was the uppers or lowers - there was no damage!
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. Sorry, most of the links that I have are HongKong [link=http://www.helipal.com/hm-lm400d-z-01r-main-rotor-blade.html]helipal[/link], [link=http://www.rc711.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=60_139&products_id=1946]rc711[/link]
09-07-2009, 02:44 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Thanks, RC_Addiction. I know you have told us that before; I should have listened to you. Where is a good place in the US to get them?
The best setting to fly these W LAMA 400D blades is to upgrade to extended shaft and you will have a waaaaay more stable Big Lama.
Unfortunately you'll have to wait for them since I agree with peter, the only 2 places i know they sell them are helipal and rc711. I ordered them from RC711. Took 5-7 days or so to get them.
I'm still waiting for my Xtreme Blades and receiver for my BOL, waiting has not been that painful because i've been busy on [link=http://rcskydiving.com/product.php?productid=16466&cat=0&page=1]THIS PLANE PROYECT[/link]. Using the electronics from that SAPAC Phoenix 2000 i never got to fly for it's intimidating size (intimidating for me at least). I flew,crashed and repaired it today.
Posting pictures just to share along with an apology since this is a BIG LAMA thread.
Fernando,
PD= For US BOL owners or satarters: Xheli.com has a free shipping sale ending wednesday i believe.
09-07-2009, 04:45 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: RC_Addiction
The best setting to fly these W LAMA 400D blades is to upgrade to extended shaft and you will have a waaaaay more stable Big Lama.
Unfortunately you'll have to wait for them since I agree with peter, the only 2 places i know they sell them are helipal and rc711. I ordered them from RC711. Took 5-7 days or so to get them.
I'm still waiting for my Xtreme Blades and receiver for my BOL, waiting has not been that painful because i've been busy on [link=http://rcskydiving.com/product.php?productid=16466&cat=0&page=1]THIS PLANE PROYECT[/link]. Using the electronics from that SAPAC Phoenix 2000 i never got to fly for it's intimidating size (intimidating for me at least). I flew,crashed and repaired it today.
Posting pictures just to share along with an apology since this is a BIG LAMA thread.
Fernando,
PD= For US BOL owners or satarters: Xheli.com has a free shipping sale ending wednesday i believe.
The best setting to fly these W LAMA 400D blades is to upgrade to extended shaft and you will have a waaaaay more stable Big Lama.
Unfortunately you'll have to wait for them since I agree with peter, the only 2 places i know they sell them are helipal and rc711. I ordered them from RC711. Took 5-7 days or so to get them.
I'm still waiting for my Xtreme Blades and receiver for my BOL, waiting has not been that painful because i've been busy on [link=http://rcskydiving.com/product.php?productid=16466&cat=0&page=1]THIS PLANE PROYECT[/link]. Using the electronics from that SAPAC Phoenix 2000 i never got to fly for it's intimidating size (intimidating for me at least). I flew,crashed and repaired it today.
Posting pictures just to share along with an apology since this is a BIG LAMA thread.
Fernando,
PD= For US BOL owners or satarters: Xheli.com has a free shipping sale ending wednesday i believe.
Nice F-18 Hornet matey!
The only planes that I have ever tried was yesterday on my clearview sim - and one of them was an F-18 but it was jet propelled........I must say that for my first attempt at flying planes it went very smoothly! I managed to land every model that I flew - bar one - and that I stalled on purpose But I'm not gonna change hobbies now - helicopters have become part of my life!Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
09-07-2009, 04:48 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
With airplanes, I always had trouble with the approach for landing; had trouble lining up with the runway, and all that. That's why I switched to helis ... no runways.
09-07-2009, 05:36 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
There might not be any runways with heli's but there still is the same orientation problems that I still have a hard time conquering. Hence my many heli smashups.....alas rest in pieces T-rex, Raptor, Walkera
09-08-2009, 03:01 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: Beachcomber
With airplanes, I always had trouble with the approach for landing; had trouble lining up with the runway, and all that. That's why I switched to helis ... no runways.
With airplanes, I always had trouble with the approach for landing; had trouble lining up with the runway, and all that. That's why I switched to helis ... no runways.
Yea
That's the challenging part of flying planes (even on simulators)...... but I also have a "dead" pile of helis to prove to myself that I can't fly them eitherPeter[sm=49_49.gif]
09-08-2009, 03:54 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Hi Everyone,
All this talk of planes is making me more interested in one of my other projects. I have been given one of these to build. Its a complete set with .46 engine and Futaba radio.
Anyway, back to the BL. I notice these are back on ebay. I hope to be able to sit down and fit my brushless kit soon. Other recent purchases include some polymorph to make a mount for my camera on the BL. And a pinion puller which I tought was a good price with free shipping.
I also keep considering a belt cp v2.
Hours of fun ahead me thinks.
Simon
All this talk of planes is making me more interested in one of my other projects. I have been given one of these to build. Its a complete set with .46 engine and Futaba radio.
Anyway, back to the BL. I notice these are back on ebay. I hope to be able to sit down and fit my brushless kit soon. Other recent purchases include some polymorph to make a mount for my camera on the BL. And a pinion puller which I tought was a good price with free shipping.
I also keep considering a belt cp v2.
Hours of fun ahead me thinks.
Simon
09-08-2009, 04:54 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Hi Simon,
nice gadgets you bought there ... can you believe there is one thing about all this internet buying that I really find extremly annoying .. I just bought the same camera like you .... in a SUPERSPECIAL that is not going to last ... for 39$
... they still have it for the same prize, it did cost shipping ... why is it that always once you (of course in this case me) bought something, somebody offers it for half the price a day or two later ... 
otherwise,
have fun withh your projects ...
Sven
PS
.... and keep us posted how the camera holder comes along, as there seems to be no "commercial" solution for this particular camera. Also, have you put some thoughts into how the camera can be made facing to the front instead of facing down yet ? (I mean without taking the case apart and just installing it facing the front - what some people already did I think?
nice gadgets you bought there ... can you believe there is one thing about all this internet buying that I really find extremly annoying .. I just bought the same camera like you .... in a SUPERSPECIAL that is not going to last ... for 39$
... they still have it for the same prize, it did cost shipping ... why is it that always once you (of course in this case me) bought something, somebody offers it for half the price a day or two later ... otherwise,
have fun withh your projects ...
Sven
PS
.... and keep us posted how the camera holder comes along, as there seems to be no "commercial" solution for this particular camera. Also, have you put some thoughts into how the camera can be made facing to the front instead of facing down yet ? (I mean without taking the case apart and just installing it facing the front - what some people already did I think?
09-08-2009, 06:11 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Hi Sven,
I plan to make several clips / clamps / mounts to see what works best. At first i want to try and position the camera on the side of the helicopter with the nose just in shot. A bit like this. I wonder how the guy in the video did it?
I will try to make a double headed clamp with foam lined jaws and mount to skids / frame / canopy / tail. Hopefully the effect on the BL centre of gravity will be small. I have noticed that my BL has a sweet spot with little vibration on the canopy between the "door" and "window". ie. just above the front canopy mounting screw. I might try to make something to fit here. I have various foams to try as well.
Unlucky with the price mate. I notice they halved in price quickly. That said there seems to be many versions in circulation. Some cmos, others ccd, some larger batteries etc etc. I only looked for 640*480 and 30fps but there is more to it. I have sent mine back becasue it would not charge reliably and I am waiting for the replacement. The seller always replies to my emails within 24h which gives me confidence all will be well eventually.
The one additional feature I would like would be for it to take a photo every 10 seconds automatically.
I will of course share my findings here!
Simon
I plan to make several clips / clamps / mounts to see what works best. At first i want to try and position the camera on the side of the helicopter with the nose just in shot. A bit like this. I wonder how the guy in the video did it?
I will try to make a double headed clamp with foam lined jaws and mount to skids / frame / canopy / tail. Hopefully the effect on the BL centre of gravity will be small. I have noticed that my BL has a sweet spot with little vibration on the canopy between the "door" and "window". ie. just above the front canopy mounting screw. I might try to make something to fit here. I have various foams to try as well.
Unlucky with the price mate. I notice they halved in price quickly. That said there seems to be many versions in circulation. Some cmos, others ccd, some larger batteries etc etc. I only looked for 640*480 and 30fps but there is more to it. I have sent mine back becasue it would not charge reliably and I am waiting for the replacement. The seller always replies to my emails within 24h which gives me confidence all will be well eventually.
The one additional feature I would like would be for it to take a photo every 10 seconds automatically.
I will of course share my findings here!
Simon
09-08-2009, 07:45 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: sgbfly
Hi Everyone,
All this talk of planes is making me more interested in one of my other projects. I have been given one of these to build. Its a complete set with .46 engine and Futaba radio.
Anyway, back to the BL. I notice these are back on ebay. I hope to be able to sit down and fit my brushless kit soon. Other recent purchases include some polymorph to make a mount for my camera on the BL. And a pinion puller which I thought was a good price with free shipping.
I also keep considering a belt cp v2
Hours of fun ahead me thinks.
Hi Everyone,
All this talk of planes is making me more interested in one of my other projects. I have been given one of these to build. Its a complete set with .46 engine and Futaba radio.
Anyway, back to the BL. I notice these are back on ebay. I hope to be able to sit down and fit my brushless kit soon. Other recent purchases include some polymorph to make a mount for my camera on the BL. And a pinion puller which I thought was a good price with free shipping.
I also keep considering a belt cp v2
Hours of fun ahead me thinks.
Yea. The pinion-puller is a GREAT product - exactly what I got a year ago now.
I am beginning to think that I should have got the BL conversion kit from ebay - it wouldn't have been half as difficult to get correct!
The mounting solution for my diff. on-board camera (FCO2) is shown in my [link=http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss140/pgroom_68/BIG%20outdoor%20Lama/?albumview=grid]PHOTOBUCKET[/link]
Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. To answer your Q "I wonder how the guy in the video did it?", post a comment on youtube requesting that he send you a pic of the mount to your email address.........
09-08-2009, 08:30 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Interesting thanks Peter!
ps. I have just heard from home that my xtreme blades have arrived along with the cnc top bearing holder.
pps. oh no! lol! But Weds onwards looks OK.
ps. I have just heard from home that my xtreme blades have arrived along with the cnc top bearing holder.
pps. oh no! lol! But Weds onwards looks OK.
09-08-2009, 08:41 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: sgbfly
Interesting thanks Peter!
ps. I have just heard from home that my xtreme blades have arrived along with the cnc top bearing holder.
pps. oh no! lol! But Weds onwards looks OK.
Interesting thanks Peter!
ps. I have just heard from home that my xtreme blades have arrived along with the cnc top bearing holder.
pps. oh no! lol! But Weds onwards looks OK.
Why would you want an outdoor helicopter when you could be indoors and out of that wind & cold Come live in Australia......Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. You will like the Xtreme blades - I'll bet!
My top bearing holder is on by BOL and just needs a few more flight hours before any conclusions can be drawn from it.
09-08-2009, 11:27 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
09-09-2009, 06:06 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: rusty63
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
Ah yes, the third "hidden" pot on the Lama 3 & 4 4in1 (part EK2-0705B more correctly
) - sets the gyro center-point to 0 or 1.35V if I remember correctly! Could you post this over on the Lama 4 thread if you haven't already? It may prove useful to some (I'm not up to speed enough) - my advice is to leave well alone unless 1. You have a digital voltmeter (multimeter) AND 2. You have tried ALL the relevant mechanical adjustments around the problem - it is really a technical ELECTRONIC adjustment for the mid-point of gyro gain.Peter[sm=49_49.gif]
09-09-2009, 02:54 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Hi Guys,
I found a BOL w/broad band Tx/Rx and including the shaft extension and metal head on ebay. The buy it now price was only $128!! I was thinking hard about buying it, but someone bought it while I was thinking. GRRRRRR!
Since I put the two little screws in the flybar keeper with nail polish... the screws have stayed tight... so flying is a pleasure again. I have an entire bag full of tricks to show you. Anyone else flying the BOL doing stunts yet?
Post 'em if you have them. I'll try to get my wife to video some of the things I'm getting away with tonight, after the wind dies. It's hard to stop this flying on the edge once you get started.
I found a BOL w/broad band Tx/Rx and including the shaft extension and metal head on ebay. The buy it now price was only $128!! I was thinking hard about buying it, but someone bought it while I was thinking. GRRRRRR!
Since I put the two little screws in the flybar keeper with nail polish... the screws have stayed tight... so flying is a pleasure again. I have an entire bag full of tricks to show you. Anyone else flying the BOL doing stunts yet?
Post 'em if you have them. I'll try to get my wife to video some of the things I'm getting away with tonight, after the wind dies. It's hard to stop this flying on the edge once you get started.
09-09-2009, 03:17 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: rusty63
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
09-09-2009, 08:12 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: Beachcomber
Thanks, Rusty; very interesting. I might have to mess with my third pot, because my other two pots don't seem to act right. It is very possible it was not set at the factory. I'm guessing his work on smaller Lamas will translate to the Big Lama also. Digital volt meter from radio shack is not expensive.
ORIGINAL: rusty63
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
09-10-2009, 02:49 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: Beachcomber
Thanks, Rusty; very interesting. I might have to mess with my third pot, because my other two pots don't seem to act right. It is very possible it was not set at the factory. I'm guessing his work on smaller Lamas will translate to the Big Lama also. Digital volt meter from radio shack is not expensive.
ORIGINAL: rusty63
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
Hey Guys , Found this link the other nite . Makes for interesting reading . Especially the <u>Third Zero Point </u>adjustment , fine tune for gyro . So far i have been lucky or felt my Coaxials fine as they are . But anyone having troubles perhaps worth a shot . Cya Russell.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010637
I don't think the voltages will translate over 'cause the smaller birds are 7.4V and the BOL is 11.1V - I think you might have to join rcgroups and ask the guys yourself....
Peter[sm=49_49.gif]
Oops, Russell already said that[sm=red_smile.gif]
09-10-2009, 06:58 AM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Will do. the thread is kinda old; we'll see if he answers.
Edit: Wow he has already answered, same day. Thanks Russell and Peter for the suggestion. I'll need to open my unit up to see if the board looks like his post. Battery voltage doesn't matter. This guy is good.
My Question:
Hey Marek,
You are an asset to our hobby, thanks so much for your efforts and knowledge.
Do you suppose your instructions for smaller E-Sky Lamas would translate to the E-Sky Big Lama? My Big Lama also has 2 pots (proportional and gain) plus 1 hidden. But the voltages might not be the same, since Big Lama uses 3 cell 11.1 V battery.
Any thoughts?
His Answer:
If your boards look like the ones in photos attached to the original post, then yes, this should translate 1:1. Thing is, although motors get more voltage (11.1V instead of 7.4) the logic board gets a down-regulated voltage (5V), so it is not dependent on battery voltage.
Marek
link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1010637&page=6
Edit: Wow he has already answered, same day. Thanks Russell and Peter for the suggestion. I'll need to open my unit up to see if the board looks like his post. Battery voltage doesn't matter. This guy is good.
My Question:
Hey Marek,
You are an asset to our hobby, thanks so much for your efforts and knowledge.
Do you suppose your instructions for smaller E-Sky Lamas would translate to the E-Sky Big Lama? My Big Lama also has 2 pots (proportional and gain) plus 1 hidden. But the voltages might not be the same, since Big Lama uses 3 cell 11.1 V battery.
Any thoughts?
His Answer:
If your boards look like the ones in photos attached to the original post, then yes, this should translate 1:1. Thing is, although motors get more voltage (11.1V instead of 7.4) the logic board gets a down-regulated voltage (5V), so it is not dependent on battery voltage.
Marek
link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1010637&page=6
09-10-2009, 01:49 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Wow! What's an OpAmp? I wish he would "dumb it down" a little so I could understand what he's talking about! So voltage doesn't matter because it is stepped down to 5v? I don't think I understand where it's stepped down. In the gyro/receiver itself? [:-]
09-10-2009, 03:15 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
Guys...
Just came in from a bit of flying over the house. I went fast forward with quite a bit of throttle and the BOL was really moving. With the extended shaft, it flies as it should.
Here are some photos of it. I promised someone I would show them the Lama IV tail section mounted over a "sawed off" BOL boom. Now everyone thinks it's a Lama IV.
But look closely at my new tail and you'll see where.. even with the extension kit, that rotor is still going to saw your tail off when you make a very sudden move to the rear. There's a sizable gash there, but look at all of the extra luggage room you gain under the back! LOL! Hey, it works... This is the helicopter I fly so radically... so, it's really no wonder that it got gashed again. If the wind will just stop this evening... I'll hopefully get a video to post.
Just came in from a bit of flying over the house. I went fast forward with quite a bit of throttle and the BOL was really moving. With the extended shaft, it flies as it should.
Here are some photos of it. I promised someone I would show them the Lama IV tail section mounted over a "sawed off" BOL boom. Now everyone thinks it's a Lama IV.
But look closely at my new tail and you'll see where.. even with the extension kit, that rotor is still going to saw your tail off when you make a very sudden move to the rear. There's a sizable gash there, but look at all of the extra luggage room you gain under the back! LOL! Hey, it works... This is the helicopter I fly so radically... so, it's really no wonder that it got gashed again. If the wind will just stop this evening... I'll hopefully get a video to post.
09-10-2009, 10:15 PM
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RE: BIG LAMA
ORIGINAL: Buz
Wow! What's an OpAmp? I wish he would ''dumb it down'' a little so I could understand what he's talking about! So voltage doesn't matter because it is stepped down to 5v? I don't think I understand where it's stepped down. In the gyro/receiver itself? [:-]
Wow! What's an OpAmp? I wish he would ''dumb it down'' a little so I could understand what he's talking about! So voltage doesn't matter because it is stepped down to 5v? I don't think I understand where it's stepped down. In the gyro/receiver itself? [:-]
He has dumbed it down a lot already - I can even understand most of it
The voltage is stepped down to 5V as it enters the 3in1 (or LHS of 4in1 for the smaller coaxs). The reciever is separated by a "firewall" in the 4in1 (for smaller birds) anyway.Peter[sm=49_49.gif]
P.S. I thought the pics were the results of heli-inbreeding