ArtW

Appart from the cost issue, why did you reduce the size?

What would be the result of not reducing the size and simply substituting an EDF unit for the turbine? BVM makes EDF units that seem to cost about what turbine costs, once you have purchased the batteries.

bobparks2

My Feedback: (1)

Take a look at the new TamJets 100mm fan. It could do well for what you want, and I think it has some advantages over the BVM. (Required disclosure: I did some of the aerodynamic design on the TamJets unit, so I am a bit biased).

Why did the field ban turbines? I notice you are in San Rafael. If its fire concerns, the R54 is one of the safest jets around... the turbine version might even be less prone to a fire in a crash than an electric version.

Bob

ArtW

The field is over in Richmond near the water. There is dry grass around. There was a crash of an electric foamy. The lipo battery caught fire and burned several acres of scrub grass. The fire department put out the fire. The club banned turbines in reponse to this lipo caused fire. It would be ironic if I avoided using a turbine and end up using even larger lipo batteries.

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

Let me get this straight. A Li-Po powered foamie crashes and a fire ensues. Several acres are burned and the club bans turbines? Who's the President of you club? Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein.

Marty

causeitflies

Sounds more like a Bush reaction Terrorists strike us... hmmm lets invade Iraq

DREAMER-RCU

rE-action

I reduced the size to reduce the weight of the airframe. I am looking at between 8 and 12 lb thrust from the fan. 12s 5000 batteries weigh 5 pounds and right now my airframe weighs 6. That means that ready for flight I'm looking at probably 13 vs over 20 for the full size. I may drop to 8, 9, or 10s - don't know until I get it done and out to the field. Body is 8.38 high X 5 in wide.

Obviously not all of the woodwork is done and the corners have not been rounded. I think that my router will make short work of the corners. The batteries are in for size comparison. The fan mount and housing is a work in progress.

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

I can see reacting to the turbines potential to cause a fire in the event of a crash as remote as it is. Did anyone discuss banning electrics also since the original problem was created by an electric? At least a turbine engine can be shut down in the event of a problem. You can't make a Li Po safer in a crash. I forsee a hand launch glider club emerging.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Naaahh! That could put someboby's eye out! [X(]

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

You're right Mark. My bad. Pelosi or Feinstein would have just taxed turbine flying to subsidize the local Fire department or just outlawed RC flying there as it is endangering a rare species of nat that serves no other purpose than to fly into your eye while you're on finals.

Marty

TommyWatson

My Feedback: (1)

It has been a while since it has flown but I took the old Supersport powered R54 out this weekend. I have not flown it for about 6 months, but it flew as well as ever, Fast, Smooth and landed like a feather.
What a great model.

Regards

DREAMER-RCU

Before and after photos of my 82% reduced size Reaction for EDF. I used a router with a 5/8" roundover bit to create the corners on the body. This was a very fast way to do this job. It gave very good results with a nice smooth curve over the corners.

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Hello All. I've been flying my R-54 and finding it a real pleasure, however my landings need ALOT! of help. My approaches are fine but when I get close to the runway surface the plane becomes very pitch sensative. I've played with elevator expo all the way from 30% to 70% (JR 9303) to no avail. I have rechecked the CG and it's within range but at the rear of the recommended. My guess is that I need to move the CG to the forward extreme at 6" from the wing L.E. I sure would appreciate any guidance from you seasoned R-54 pilots. Last weekend at the New England Jet Rally I got a lot of help from more experienced pilots but never got the chance to fly again due to a stiff cross wind.

rcguy!

My Feedback: (69)

John,
A slightly forward CG does help. Make sure you are getting slow enough on the touchdown. DON"T dive for the runway. Establish a slightly nose high final approach, control descent with power, speed with elevator. When over the threshold, cut power and gently continue to add up elevator all the way to touchdown. Don't force it down by any means. It is eaier to add a touch of power for a slightly short approach than to try and bleed off excess airspeed.
I used Bruce's flap settings and never did try CROW. Hang in there! She's a GREAT flying plane!

Dave Rigotti

racer8297

My Feedback: (13)

John,

I am using 1/4" of crow and it seems to help. One thing that I read somewhere (can't remember where) is that when on final, you don't want to be able to see the top or bottom of the airplane. If you see the top, you are to fast. See the bottom, you and you are to slow. My CG is at the rear limit. My elevator is set to Bruce's recommended throws and I run 40% expo up and 15% down.

Once over the threshold, at about 10 feet AGL, I wipe the throttle. Then I feed in up elevator and bring the nose down but I try to keep it off the ground as long as possible. Then it touches down and rolls out about 20 feet.

Another thing. I installed a Prolink front strut from Dreamworks with a 2.25" wheel. This lets the nose sit lower a little. I think that it totally eliminated the tendency for the airplane to take of again if I touch down a little fast. My feeling is that it lowered the wing's angle of attack when on the ground.

I see that you live in Connecticut. You should try to make our jet event in October and Farview. I will have my R54 and there were 3 others here last year. The invitation goes out to everyone, by the way! www.farviewflyers.net

Jim

BruceTharpe

My Feedback: (1)

John, The advice given above is all good. So you don't feel alone, I went through this learning curve with my personal R54s. First and foremost, add lead as needed to get your CG into the front half of the recommended range. Do not worry about the extra ounces - you will not notice them in normal flight and aerobatics. But it will be much more tame during the approach and flare.

PaulD

My Feedback: (39)

HI John,

I am by no means a "seasoned" R54 pilot (13 flights so far) but here's what has worked for me:

1) Follow Bruce's advice and get the CG in the forward 1/2 of the range.

2) Use crow. On my set-up I have 2 flap settings, one with 20 deg of flap and no crow for short take-offs and the second with 40-45 deg of flap and "crow" (up aileron) mixed in. With this set-up I can easily land the plane with even a fairly steep approach. With the gear down this is a VERY draggy set-up and needs some throttle management until you are on the very last stage of final where you can cut the throttle and glide her in.

3) In my Jet I have Robarts. I found the front strut was way too stiff and was causing the nose pilot shaft to bend as well as some rough handling on landings. I took my strut apart and changed the spring to one that is very soft with just enough spring pressure such that the strut is just barely starting to compress with the normal weight of the fuse on it. I found to some degree that this set-up now absorbs more of the landing and reduces any tendancy to pitch the nose back up.

This is a great flying airframe - enjoy!

Paul

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the guidance everyone. I have added 13 oz. of lead to move the CG from the aft limit to the forward limit. I also got some instructions from a friend that has a lot of aerodynamics background and he is in line with Bruce's intructions from the manual to keep the fuselage level and let the plane fly itself to the runway. I'll be going to the Maine Jet Rally in September to give this all a try.
Bruce, I have a call in to you to order a set of struts. Until I get my landings under control I'll stick with the B/M struts. The last thing I want to do is transfer any landing damage from bent struts to the wing structure if I go to the Robart Robo Struts.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I just bought a R54 airframe from my friend up here in Northern Ontario. I have a few questions:

#1 - If I went with a Wren Supersport, can it handle the full thrust in level flight or only when you want to go "up"?

#2 - the spring airs in the plane are old and worn out. Would a set of Spring Air HD101's (which are drop in) be up to the task? I also am putting in some proper jet wheels and mains brakes.

Thank you gentlemen!

AJC

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Hi Andrew,

I have a R54 with a SuperSport (you can find pics in a prior post I made on this thread).

The airframe handles the power just fine, can go full throttle in level flight, no problems. Maxes out at about 160 mph according to our estimates. As with most jets, it takes a few laps of the field to feel the full effect of the max thrust. It is sweet combo .. you'll love it.

Re: gear, can't help there, I have the Robarts retrofitted with Robostruts on the mains, with Trim wheels and brakes, and the Dreamworks trailing link on the nose with the 2.25" wheel as mentioned a few posts above .. and I agree the slight nose-down result may be a nice side effect of that...

Dave

TommyWatson

My Feedback: (1)

I have a R54 with a Supersport. Full throttle Straight and level is OK. I would not use Full throttle any time the nose is pointing down. I always reduce power in a dive.
Mine does have a glass and resin finish.



Regards

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Good news regarding my landing problem with the R-54. I've taken the bits of advise from all of you and moved the CG forward. Also Bruces guidelines on the approach attitude. At the Maine Jet Rally this weekend, my first landing was a bit rough but with no where near the porposing problems I had before. The struts bent a bit but I attribute this to the struts being softened from repeated straightening. I put in a new set that I got from Bruce and my next landing, with some concentration, was excellent. I taxied back to the pits with a grin a mile wide. Now I want to investigate the Robo Strut option but I am concerned that the 660 struts are only rated for up to an 18 pound plane. With my nose weight and the P70 pushing, I'm near 24 pounds. What experience is out there with the 660's on a "heavy" R-54?

speedbrake

John,
Good news on your landings!! I'm using the 660s and haven't experienced any problems. Absolutely great struts. I have 660s for the mains and using the standard wire strut in the nose. There is plenty of spring tension to support the extra weight. You'll love them!

Keith

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

It's time to wake up this thread and get some info about Robo Strut mods for the mains. I have Robart 660's and have reviewed your past comments about the mods that have been done. It's apparent to me that I have to cut the struts below the factory installed spring stop. What I want to know is, does using the retract trunions as the spring stop cause any tendancy for the strut to push out of trunion? I was considering using the Robart provided 3/16" wire strut inserts as the new spring stop and J-B weld the insert in place. I could also J-B weld a metal plug in place at the top of the cut strut. What have you all experienced?

booker-RCU

My Feedback: (43)

John - The way you describe modifying the struts is how several of us in the North West have done it. None of us have experienced any problems with the struts. Just let the spring butt against the trunion. It will work fine.

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

I did mine a little differently. I drilled a small hole about an 1/8" to 1/16" from the top of the strut straight through both sides of the strut. After installing the spring and compressing it with some needle nose pliers, I slipped a steel rod through the holes to hold the spring in. Then just nip the ends off and grind the remainder flush with the side of the strut. Took just a few minutes for each strut.

Marty