flytime56

has anyone built the midwest extra 27%?
if so, how is the kit and the weight enpty? also, are there any good ideas to reduce the weight of the plane. the engine that will be going into the plane is a zdz 40.

thanks for all the info
GB

vtsmx-DELETE

The kit is of good quality. Good customer service from Midwest as well. If you do a search here on RCU you'll find several lightening suggestions to get you down around 12 lbs.

vtsmx

spuck5644

We have built a number of these. They are terriffic flyers, almost pattern-ish. The kit offers many places to save weight as it is really "over" engineered. We ahve built them as light as 10.5 lbs and as heavy as 17lbs. depending on customer requests. With the ZDZ-40 it should be no problem no matter how you build.
We have the ZDZ-50 we're gonna hang on one as soon as mufflers become available for the engine. Enjoy the Extra, it flys like it's on rails.

Steve
AMA#4939

Puckett Model aviation

Mendes

My Feedback: (1)

The kit is great, a real pleasure to build. Mine came out at just over 13 1/4 lbs dry with no modifications at all, this with a Super Tigre 3000 for power. You should be able to get very close to that with the ZDZ 40 and have more power.

Kasper

SUPER plane... its also hovers... 90% throttle with APC 18x10

MOKI 180 Bisson muffler





Homepage: www.modelfly.dk

Robert300XS

My Feedback: (2)

Jeez, my XS hovers at 1/3 - 1/2 with a bme 50 in it..

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

One of the best kits in it's class...that being a one piece wing IMAC ready plane.
There are several things that have been done with these over the years, and many ways to lighten them. You won't find all the answers in one place, but if you take your time you'll find a bunch of them.
I got mine in at 15lbs with a BME50. I replaced spruce spars with balsa laminated w/carbonfiber. As someone mentioned there is alot of meat in the airframe that can come off. All the lightening holes can be routed out about 1/4"inch. The landing gear block can definately go on a diet(they tell you that one in the manual).
The main thing most guys are doing though is replacing wood, and adding lightening holes in strategic places.
What I did with mine was go with the CF/balsa sparring, all composite materials meaning carbon fiber where there would be glass, and kevlar for steel cabling, and then as stated, just a general diet on the airframe.
The engine you choose will obviously make a diff. Battery packs are nutorious for dead-weight. The new lith-ion are extreme light, and have great holding power. Right there would save 3/4 of a pound using lith-ion instead of nicads. Just keep looking around, and I'm sure if you have any specifics just send a message, I know I'd be glad to share with you.
Mine will hover at 1/3throttle, no prob. Ya gotta love that gas!!
Here's my bird....

Kasper

Mine is very light its 15pounds. But still i have to use 90% throttle to keep it hovering with a MOKI 180 and APC 18x10... what the best prop for 3D with this extra?



Homepage: www.modelfly.dk

rmh

The kit w/ZDZ40 is a good combo.
A lighter kit redo is easy - substitute ALL hardwood and ply for balsa - -use firm -not rock hard .
increase wing center sheeting -out one/ two more bays- to go past the aileron cutout.
replace stab setup with streamlined airfoil. foam foils are easy to do.
allup weight w/ZDZ40 is 13 lbs - done a few - performance is great.
The new H9 version of this as an ARF has more wing chord and more area - but will be in 15-16 lb range - at sea level should be a nice plane.
My choice would be the Midwest - for a lighter -more competitive setup -
We are flying our own new ZDZ40 models at 1280 squares - and 11/12 lbs - This is really a great setup .

Robert300XS

My Feedback: (2)

More diameter, less pitch. So I'd suggest getting a 20x8 and give that a shot. I think a 21x6(I doubt thoes even exist) would go too slow.


Well after reading all these posts, I wanna build another one! I do have a MW Cap 232 wing that was crashed, it only damaged the sheeting on the cap, everything else is fine. The fuse was totaled, but I got the plans for it. Maybe I will be the guinea pig for the stick build fuse for the MW!

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

Kasper, the Moki might work well with a 20x6. Although the Moki has a ton of torque on the low end, you really can't compare to gas engine for hovering and such. And in a 15lb plane the 1.8 will be challenged a bit more in the manuevers that need real grunt and stump pulling torque.
I also own a 1.80Moki and had it in a plane that weighed right at 13lbs, but at that it still hovered with a bit over half throttle with an 18x10. As someone stated though, you might get better prop performance by increasing diameter, and decreasing pitch.
Also, some of what your experiencing may be due to linkage/throttle curve, as it sometimes only takes a fraction of an inch to make a difference on the throttle barrels, which affects the end result...RPM's.

dick hansen, if your reading this...I heard somewhere that you were making tail-kits for the MidwestExtras...did I hear right? I almost just scratch built one, but went with the flat-stab, just because I already had everything, I'm really not sorry I did it either. I figured if I like the plane I'll build another anyway, and get an upgraded kit in the process.

Kasper

Hi... when i say 90% its how it sounds.

I got a menz 20x6 but i havent really tried hovering with that prop because its illegal to use wooden props at our field.



Homepage: www.modelfly.dk

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

try a mezlik

rcavi8ter

My Feedback: (19)

I run a Bolly 19-10 on my Extra with a Moki. Weight is 11.5lbs RTF. As SPUCK said the motor is getting swapped for a ZDZ 50 as soon as I can get a muffler. I gotta know why wood props are illegal at your field. Never heard of such.


Chris Puckett
Puckett MOdel Aviation

Kasper

At last somone asked!

The foreman (the man in charge) Means that its the wooden props that are ther main reason why our planes are little noisy... (and that is ABSOLUTELY notthing compared to USA)

Our planes are just as noisy as Roland Matts Extra 330S at TOC.

But the foreman said. That my 18x10 issent noisy but my menz 20x6 is... (the menz rips)

And a couple of other people are flying 3W extra 330S 32% with a menz and they also rips...
One of their extras also flys with a Engel prop 3 Blade.. not good power in the prop but its quiet...

So the conclusion is that wooden props are noisy and they are therefore illegal at our field.

Its just so stupid.

Regards

IMG]http://www.modelfly.dk/hurra6.jpg[/IMG]



Homepage: www.modelfly.dk

flytime56

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments on the airplane. I was being worried with what all the guys were saying at the field. most of which they said the airplane was too heavy and would be close to 15 or 16 pounds with a gas engine.

it's nice to see that some of you have this combo done and can get the weight down to 12 pounds or so.

can't wait to start to get building. The cold and snow is slowly moving in.

if any of you have more suggestions please feel free to send them to me. all the more info the better. I will be taking out all the ply and but balsa, and also use carbon fiber for re-inforcment. also, i will be adding more wing sheating.

thanks a lot

GB

rcavi8ter

My Feedback: (19)

You can save some major weight by taking the spruce spars and tossing them for Carbon covered balsa. Also cut a Huge hole in the landing gear plate. I enlarged all the holes in the fuse 1/4 all the way around. Also toss the ply wing joiner and replace with hard balsa covered with carbon fibre. If you really want to 3d the plane you better make the elevators bigger. Just move the hinge line forward 1" and also add counter balances. I also added 1" to the rudder trailing edge for more control. With these mods and building light everywhere else and a good light gas motor zdz 40 would be perfect and a weight of 13lbs will be easy.


Chris Puckett
Puckett Model Aviation

Kasper

When i said my plane was 15lb it was wet its 13½ dry

jmulder

My Feedback: (6)

How does everybody elses fly with the stock tail group? Is it worth changing? I think I'm going to put a G62 on mine....watcha think?..............John

rmh

I have foam cores - not a replacement kit as such

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

dick hanson, that's good to know for those that want to change the tailgroup out. Someone did tell me to check you out for that, but they weren't sure if you sold them, or just made them for one of your own projects.
Also, do they require the flying wires? That might be a good question, as some guys don't like the look of the flying-wires. I personally don't mind, but I've ran across a few that question the need, and I've been pretty clear on my view there.......................gotsta have 'em for sure on the flat-stabs.
My Extra performs nicely with the slabstabs, as well as I've heard there's not a big diff other then the overall look. The foiled horizontal stab/elevator also has counter balances.

fishgod

My Feedback: (13)

What type of carbon fiber are you guys using on the wing spars and where do you get it. I have been thinking about this kit for a long time. I really want to go gas because the cost of glow fuel is killing me. With the short season I went through 17 gallons of fuel practicing IMAC.

rmh

carbon fibre really not needed -just build entire wing with firm balsa.-extend center sheeting.-past aileron cutout to nex rib.

fishgod

My Feedback: (13)

Dick,
I dont have much of a selection of wood up here. Can it be bought online or from vendor in the lower 48? Also, what would one ask for when buying it. Would I ask for firm balsa or is there another industry name.

flytime56

thank you for all the suggestions.

i have not got my engine for the plane, a zdz 40.

how is the cowling and wheel pants for the kit? should they be upgraded for something better?

the airplane should start the construction process very soon,

thanks,
GB