BHunn3

The plane weighs approx 22 pounds, has a 64.5" bottom wing, 68.5" top wing and 63" fuselage. the rudder and elevator controls are pushrod from up in fuselage. the plane is painted Solotex(?) I believe. Note full flying wires, pushrod upper aileron, dual cockpit, single servo elevator. thanks.

Would you have any idea of what kit this is. thanks. More Pics in Post #8 below.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

looks like a Byron to me, or possibly a Pilot Models.

DMichael

My Feedback: (5)

My first reaction was Byron as well. Wasn't the Byron all foam?

Dave

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

Yes the byron is all foam, if its foam its a byron, if not most likely a Pilot.

BHunn3

I believe the plane is about 5 years old. I will hve to check on the foam issue. I'm looking at this from long distance and as far as I'm aware there is no paerwork available. Looking at possibly upgrading her. But not sure a plane this old, this size and with pushrod controls would be anything more than a good looking cruiser, especially with those long sing aileron pushrods.

PJFaller

what about the Pitts from Bob Dively could be that one too. His has a lot of tin work on the forward part of the fuselage.

Clarence Creer

My Feedback: (16)

It may not be a kit. First of all it is an S2A not an S1, so you can rule out Byron. The Bob Dively Pitts is a 1/3 scale S2A, which puts the wing span up in the 80" range. It was kitted from the Andy Sheber plans. Andy Sheber also did a 1/3 scale S1 at 68". If this is an S2A, it is closer to 1/4 scale.

splais

My Feedback: (25)

OK, folks I’m back from vacation using a friend’s computer. Here is a little more on this plane. I have looked at many pictures of the “real� Pitts. It appears this plane is the S2A, but without the full canopy. It may have had the full canopy at one time because you can see the rails on the fuselage sides.

I have purchased the plane as a project of love. As you can see from the photos, this is a beautiful plane. It is all built up and definitely a kit. Currently it is equipped with a Zenoah G-62(magneto) and a smoke system. As stated, the plane was purchased at an estate sale. The plane was allegedly originally purchased from someone in Florida by a gentlemen in Colorado who recently passed away. The plane appears to have very few flights on her. The bottom of the wheel pants are in perfect condition. I have included several photos here to help out. The more I thought about it, the more I figured this was a very unique plane that deserved some TLC and being put back in service. But I’d really like to run down some paperwork on her. So far I have only found people who have seen the plane, but never seen her fly and were not involved in the build. CG, internal construction, throws, capabilities, etc are all a guess. The plane does not appear to be designed for any 3D type flying. Not with that single servo one piece elevator and those long upper aileron pushrods

rwright142

The "N" number is from a BELL 47G-5A helicopter... Sorry, couldn't resist...

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Hey, see, more info already. Maybe the builder owned that helicopter.


NTSB Identification: NYC95LA100 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Public Inquiries
14 CFR Part 137: Agricultural
Accident occurred Thursday, May 04, 1995 in MIDDLEBORO, MA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 11/8/1995
Aircraft: BELL 47G-5A, registration: N444GW
Injuries: 1 Minor.
THE PILOT HAD MADE SEVERAL PREVIOUS AERIAL APPLICATION RUNS OVER A CRANBERRY BOG. AT THE END OF A SOUTHEAST RUN, THE PILOT STARTED A 'NORMAL AG TURN' TO THE RIGHT. AT THE COMPLETION OF THE TURN, AT AN ALTITUDE OF 30 TO 35 FEET, THE HELICOPTER BEGAN AN ABRUPT, UNCONTROLLED DESCENT TOWARD THE GROUND. THE PILOT APPLIED COLLECTIVE PITCH, WAS UNABLE TO ARREST THE RATE OF DESCENT, AND THE HELICOPTER COLLIDED WITH THE GROUND. NO MECHANICAL MALFUNCTION OF THE HELICOPTER ENGINE OR THE FLIGHT CONTROLS WAS DETECTED. WINDS AT THE ACCIDENT SITE WERE FORM 220 DEGREES AT 12 KNOTS. A WITNESS STATED THAT THE HELICOPTER APPEARED TO HOVER AT 30 TO 35 FEET, STARTED THE RIGHT TURN, THEN DESCENDED RAPIDLY TO THE GROUND.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

the pilot's failure to maintain airspeed during a low altitude aerial application turn, which resulted in inadvertent settling with power and the subsequent collision with the terrain.

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

I have to say, the builder appears to be a "craftsman". It is definately a "looker". Like the colors.

GSNut

My Feedback: (8)

Super Nice !

It's a OK Model Co. Pilot Pitts S2a though not painted in Marion Coles Colors...course I didn't do mine that way either.

Totally Rare Bird Anymore..and very hard to find. My archives on this model, owner flight reports say it also fly's very well and has good ground handling properties. Your canopy is also correct for the S2a as either an acrobatic or racing canopy was used on many variants the forward cockpit is covered which was no sin either.


Instrument panel graphics are Pilot.
Tail Wheel hardware is Pilot.
Sliding Canopy hardware is Pilot.
The Size according to Pilot is 1/3.5
The cowl looks to be Pilot and if it is a 4 part with the top panel being alum. it is a Pilot.
Cabanes are Pilot and are alum tubes with flattened ends.

Hope that helps Steve !

Doug in Denver

jsm77777

My Feedback: (4)

It's a Pilot S2-A kit. Built one myself a few years back. Nice plane. Early factory built S2-A's had the single place canopy, then later went to the 2 place canopy. It was actually called the Scholl canopy, because Art Scholl bought a very early factory Pitts, and had the factory put the canopy on. Scott

GSNut

My Feedback: (8)

Right On Scott !

It also was designated the S2S...that's the plane that he was flying when it went down.

How did yours fly and was the CG as was called for by Pilot ??
My Plans show it about 3/8 in. behind the rear cabane as in the included jpeg..
I put a big cross overlaid on their location.

Will try to include the jpeg...garrrr..[&o] Ok, change the file format...duh

Steve though it's small there is a partical drawing of the landing gear in the lower left corner that may give you some idea of how it was built up and then covered. I filled mine with some thin ply equal to the LG Wire thickness and then fibre glassed over that on both sides.

Doug

jsm77777

My Feedback: (4)

You're right also, Doug. Also to clarify, the S2-S is an S2-A with 260hp versus 200, and a single seater. The Pilot kits were nice, and wish they were still around. They made a Christen Eagle, and Super Decathlon, and a Jungmeister. Scott

jsm77777

My Feedback: (4)

About the balance, I think I balnced mine at the rear cabane location. It was 9 yeras ago when I had it, so my memory isn't great on it. They fly great. I love Pitts biplanes. Hope to start framing up my 42% Challenger this winter. Scott

splais

My Feedback: (25)

For those of you that posted and may be interested the Pitts has flown - probably for the first time in several years. We got the old Zenoah running over the weekend and finally got a couple of flights in over the holiday weekend. A little nervous to say the least. I used throw guidance from the GP Pitts and CG as provided by Doug above. the plane was a ball to fly, better manners then expected and somewhat of a dog. But after feeling out some the Pitts characteristics things will be all good on next flights. the inital throws were way to low. No need to worry about high rates because this bird flies very lazy. At 21 pounds she seemed a little heavy. but it actually had a really nice glide sloop and extreme slow flight showed no bad tendency at all. Knife was near impossible until one of the bystanders said the Pitts needed speed and power which perked her right up and took most of the terrible coupling away. On low rates it would not push out of a dive inverted! High rates solved that problem. thisbird is still real nose heavy and that is going to be a problem. Because there is not a lot to move around or a way to do it if you wanted to. This weekend going to try the new throws and test the smoke system. Already had someone try to buy it from me. No way.

GSNut

My Feedback: (8)

Just got the news Splais...EEEEAAAHHAAA.. way to go. Congratulations on the Pilot Pitts..new owner test flight.

With the present set up as nose heavy you probably started to run out of elevator on the approaches at least on low rates...on high well you didnt say.

How was the ground handling...it is supposed to be the best of all the Pitts Kits and ARFs out there...??

The changes that I made on my not a kit built was to lengthen the fuse by a full inch and also increased the rudder and elevator by adding 3/8 th of an inch before the hinge line and aft of the hinge line on both rudder and elev. I also installed the dual battery system (2 ea. 2300 mah 6 cells ) just above the tail wheel mount area. All up dry weight is at 18.5 lbs.

Test flights this next spring of 06..need four more HiTec 645s to replace the Command 80's that are in it now.

Steve, the following is an email advisory that I got from one of the guys here on the universe that flys one...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" Doug"
"The one manuever to really watch if you do move some thing back or change the CG to lighten the nose would be the inverted flat spin, approach it with the upmost respect. You might want to check the recovery procedures for that one. It's the one that got Doc Scholl and has done in a model Pitts or two that I know of."

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Again, Congratulations on your First Pitts Test Flight!!

Cheers

Doug

ICE_MAN

Congrats on the test flight and what a beautiful airplane!

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Doug,

It was quit the day. The wind had been blowing all weekend so we finally said to heck with it and flew her in about 15mph headwind. Actually I was quit surprised. the ground handling and rollout handling was not as bad as expected. Maybe because I had read so many horror stories I just expected it to go crazy. Basically it just took a little care, but nothing bad. I do not believe this plane will be doing any inverted flat spins any time soon. The throws on ths plane are limited more than I would like because the gaps were built so narrow. I will probably end up flying this bird on high rates most of the time. Still have a lot of adjusting on the throws, testing the smoke system and trying to adjust the CG. but I've decided this plane is definitely worth continuing the visual restoration. If it has anything I am concerned about, it is the gear. I don't believe this planes scale landing gear can take any kind of hard landing at all. A few more flights this weekend will tell the tale.

thanks Iceman, the plane was built by a craftsman and is absolutely beautiful.

PS: I've started extensive reasearch trying to run down the original builder. If anyone recognizes this plane and has any info please email me.

GSNut

My Feedback: (8)

Oh..wow...wish I could be there..!!
Would love to actually see the Pilot Kit fly. I never have.
The only one that I have seen is mine and I haven't had the guts to take it out yet.


Keep us posted Steve !
It's almost as we were there !

Cheers

Doug

splais

My Feedback: (25)

Well, after some more restoration we finally got to fly the Pitts with smoke and in nice weather. Wish I had better pics, but pics was not the top thing on my mind.

To date I have replaced old old Futaba S130 servos with Hitec 5945's. replaced elevator and elevator control horns, upper and lower wing connecting pushrods, re-wired the entire plane (controls and engine), replaced a standardized a bunch of different screws, replaced the muffler and re-done the fuel and smoke systems.

I've also dropped it off a table and bent the gear, poked a hole in the fabric covering, cracked a wheel pant and somehow managed to get a hole in the front of the cowl (think I kicked up a rock). but she is now mechancially sound and has flown beautifully. The too far forward CG is a problem I am going to have to live with for a while. she is definitely ready for a complete visual restoration. I only wish my scale fullbody pilot had been here for the below pics.

JoeAverage

That is one beautiful Pitts Model. The Pilot 1/3.5 of 28.5% S2-A is likely the most scale kit ever produced. Until recent years anyway. There may some newer ones I am unaware of but the Pilot kit is spot on.

It is so good in fact that the very first GP 1/3 Pitts is fashioned identically to it right down the S-12 stringer joiner at the bottom rear. Wire gear and every other detail but for the front cockpit being totally ommited in the ARF but the first generation ARF was identical . GP have since changed the cabane, landing gear from wire and replaced the existing stringers that the Pilot had with some different dimensional wood. If you can, get it beside the GP and see how many differences there are other than the fact that your "kit built" model is superbly built by a real builder. GP has added glass I struts but if you ever need a cowl, pants, I struts, canopy and so on the GP replacement parts will fit.


Another similarity between the Pilot Pitts and the GP Pitts, is the airfoils. Look at the 12% semi symmetrical on the bottom of both and the 15% symmetrical on top. The actual S2-A has the NACA 63a015 top and bottom.

The S2-A had a 20 foot span. 240" x .28.5 = 68.4" Conveniently the S1-S as the GP is commonly confused with has a 207" span which divided by 3 is 69". Room for confusion, or coincidence? Great for calling the Pilot clone a 1/3 scale but bad for people trying to get facts straight. The Christen Eagle had a 19'11" span. Pilot offered an Eagle kit at the same time before there plant burnt back in the early 80's but it was only a 1/3.7 scale. They did one of the first Eagle ARFS in maybe that same size. A 1/3 scale Christen Eagle would have a 79.6667 inch span but GP's Eagle at 1/3 is ??

The GP Christen Eagle is a clone of the Pilot Pitts as well. Reprofiled enpenage and the cowl and canopy look eagle but it is the same span. The real Eagle was, and I don't want to say merely, but it was a reworked Pitts S2-A. The old Callair plant in Afton Wyoming was acquired by Frank Christensen who put his own touch on the Pitts S2 design he owned and produced the most complete and beautiful kit aircrafy ever. The canopy was free of optical distortions and the quality raised all the bars on kit planes. It was too complete in fact. The FAA decided the 51% had been exceeded and the builder ended up having to make his own ribs from the material provided. Before that they came prefab.

Anyone with a 1/3 GP Christen Eagle, great flyer, parts interchange with the Pitts, and unless it's 79.6667" in span it's not a third.

Unfortantely the fire took this line of kits prodution facility before they became more widely known.

The GP Pitts is an excellent performing model and is a great value. Maybe not available currently. Just for clarity despite its origins the GP Pitts is a very succesful product. I asked Don A. why he took what was the most beautiful, scale Pitts S2-A model ever produced, a 28.5% and called it a 1/3. His response would be heresay but there was no going back at that point with the marketing done but it is what it is. A dead nuts scale 28.5% S2-A. And the Author's is the best job I have ever seen of one.

The Single rear bubble with an aluminum cover over the front hole and held by Dzus fasteners was the most common and earliest configuaration. A lot of S2-A have been made with the 2 place canopy as seen on all S2-B Models. The S2-S has the 20 foot span, and everything from an IO-360 and up but is only a one holer as the other S2's are 2 place.

Note: added pics of S2-B and S2-S. If one looks at the geometry of the forward cabane upright you will see the S2-B is vertical as opposed to the S2-A which is raked back. The side view of the S2-S shows the front upright of the cabane raked forward to mave the cof g aft as it only has one seat. Also to tuck the big the big egine back further for c of g as well as the S2-S is shorter. Bulldog, Oracle, the S2-S make for good show ships although most are modified highly.

My 2 cents, Joe Average

edit: spelling, photo

JoeAverage

If I may impose upon your thread, I have a set (incomplete) of 1/3 scale Pitts S2-A plans that came from England. They have both French and English instructions and month and year on plan corner which makes me wonder if they were related to a periodical.

They are not evolved from the Sheber 1/3 scale plan as other have been. Even if I can never complete the set I would love to know their origin.

The sheet with the title block is missing.

Thanks, John

Nathan King

Wonderful looking model you have there! Enjoy it. I have always loved thie Pitts.