48Prcnt 3D Ultimate

Does anyone know if Avonds makes an F-16 C ? mostly all the searching I've done leads me to think his F-16is an A? model......I am looking for an F-16 of the Avonds F-16 size that is a C model. Thanks for you're time!




John.

mr_matt

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I would say to write him, I vaguely remember he was going to do an USAF C version.

I think he model now is not really an A either, because of that parachute housing under the rudder. It is a European variant. I think he was going to make conversion kits or something

Vincent

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Nick (panther flyer) could comment on this. He works on them at Luke. He told me mine was an export model because of the chute housing but there are ones flying at Luke that are in usaf colors but owned by other countries who are training in them. Nick did not say if mine was a "C" model. I will ask him.
V..

DCM

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F-16s have " A or C " tails. The guys across the pond like parachutes ( something about stopping ),
So It would be a " A parapac tail" or "C parapac tail" .

Food for thought

David Hudson

UAV_95

It is indeed an A-model, but with the optional dragchute-housing used by the air forces of Norway, Belgium, Greece, Indonesia, Israel (no chute, but electronics), Netherland, China, Turkey, and Venezuela...

Norway was the first one to have these installed, due to the great number of STOL-ports in western and northern Norway...

I guess Avonds Falcon is based on the ones operated by Belgium, and as listed above, is one of the countries having the optional dragchute-housing on their A and B-models.

KevinM

Not to muddy the waters here, but for the purist it's really not enough to properly identify a single seat F-16 as only A or C. There were enough variations amongst the different blocks within the "A" and "C" designations that in some ways each block could be considered a sub-variant unto itself. In general terms the end of the "A" series is block 25- block 30 and later aircraft are considered C models.

However...

For your purposes, UAV_95 is correct in identifying the Avonds F-16 as an A model. (The kit I looked at appeared to be a late "A" model, I'd say about block 20 or 25.) The most noticeable difference between the A and C is the larger rudder fairing, which occupies a larger footprint on the C series in addition to its larger girth. To my knowledge there are no later blocks (C models) with extended (para) fairings. If it's a C model you really want it shouldn't be too tough to convert from Philip's existing kit.

A couple of corrections for above posts: The extended (para) fairing does not exclude an aircraft from being an A model by the popular definition; It in fact clearly identifies it as an "A" model. Also, the Belgians have for many years now (about 10) had their para-bay occupied by electronic (ECM) equipment as well...

The Aviation Design F-16 is similar in size and a "C" model from the get-go. Have a look at www.adjets.com

NickC5FE

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Hey kevin, the f-16s here at luke (well the ones owned by the taiwanese 21st FS) ARE in fact f-16 a and B models, but they are upgraded with all kinds of different avionics than we have. Then we have f-16 c/d models owned by singapore (425th FS) that in fact are block 50 and higher, dependent on their avi. Those 2 squads are the 21st FS Gamblers and the 425th Blackwidows. They both fly with parachute fairingsHope this helps, and what i like to say.......They ALL break the same ;-) Hope this helps, Nick

Doug Cronkhite

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The other main difference with the C is they added horizontal stab area. The trailing edges are also notched at the tip.

KevinM

Nick-

That's the first I've heard of a para housing on a "C" model tail. I'd love to see a photo if you can get one. (Not that I don't believe you, I just wanna see it!)

I know what you mean about all the upgrades- I'm working on a model of a particular Belgian owned F-16. (Just to keep life interesting, I started from a Y/A F-16C kit- that's how I know about the different fin footprints...) Originally built to the Block 20 standard (I think) it's seen several refits and MLUs, and now has much of the equipment found on current F-16s.

As you say, they all break the same...

KevinM

Doug,

Nope, that has nothing to do with "A" or "C". That's an early block number thing- block 5 and 10 "A" models had the smaller area stabs, block 15 introduced the larger area. (Still technically and A model.) Most (or at least some) block 5 and 10's were later refitted with the larger tails.

UAV_95

FWIW the Belgium Air Force ordered Block 1's, Block 5's, Block 10's, Block 15's, and Block 15OCU's, and they all are now at Block 15-standard or higher and have gone through MLU...

The A-models have carried ECM-equipment in the dragchute-fairing since 1996.... The B-models still don't..

NickC5FE

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HEY KEVIN, i searched hi and low for a better pic but this is the best i could get. I suppose i could just go out and get a flight line photo pass, but i have already been at work one time today, and AM NOT GOING BACK IN FOR LEISURE! If you look at the farther jet, it has a parachute fairing, and it also has the lrger backbone, which i believe holds some other equipment, that we do nt have on our jets. Anyways, those are 425th jets flying to luke from the factory, hence the reason they do not have the LF tailflash yet. Nick

mr_matt

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Good stuff guys,

When I was back at General Dynamics, I worked on the avionics for the Block 40 and then the 50. At that time, I though the only planes that had that extended spine (all the way from the back of the cockpit to the fin) were the AFTI demonstrator and the Israeli versions.

KevinM

Nick,

Thanks for searching high and low. (And whaddever you do, DON'T GO BACK TO WORK!!!)
Serially though... I had forgotten about that variant- the really extended version. I know I've seen it in service with the Israelis, and yes the backbone is chock-full of electronic equipment.

UAV_95,

I think my bird fell into the category of OCU with MLU. And now that I think about it, I believe it was a block 15...

48Prcnt 3D Ultimate

Outstanding replys! and honestly theres more info here then I really thought I would get ......anyways, the major difference to "my" eyes between the "A" & "C" is the horizontal stab...as stated before in another post. That is the soul reasons I had asked my first question on this. However with the replys you have gave me will better help me to understand the differences between the A & C models. not that beoootching about it please by all means keep these great replys coming!


Also I was sent a PM with info ro TGA's sweet looking F-16, and I must say that looks like an outstanding kit![:-][8D] does anyone here have one of these? and as the look of things the TGA F-16 is a C model, so I'm going to send an email or call' em up....any other ideas?

Vincent

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I have not seen the TG F-16 at any jet rallys and there can`t be too many out there. I believe its slightly bigger than the AD or PA 16`s. Price is bigger too.
V..

48Prcnt 3D Ultimate

I think I'm going to go ahead and look into ordering a TG F-16....I will call them tomorrow and get the down low and go from there, even more so if their scale gear is ready to be shiped with kit [>:][8D] I will keep you all posted.

Vincent

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What are they quoting you for everything and how long of a wait??

48Prcnt 3D Ultimate

I didnt get a chance to call them yesterday, so I will for surely try tomorrow.....

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

Philip's model is the European A model. It has the drag chute stinger with a big horizontal tail, like the C model. He now makes a tail stinger to have it look like the C model. This is one trememdous flying airplane. I absolutely love mine. 21# dry. 75' takeoff roll to a vertical climb. Before you spend your money on a Topgun send Philip an email, ask for some pix of his accessories and the Thunderbird model he is flying. You will spend half the mone for a PA as you will for a Topgun. I guarantee you will be extremely satisfied.

48Prcnt 3D Ultimate

How much of a pain in da ass is it to get one to the states? from the searching i've done peeps have had problems with customs etc.? is this still true today ? I would like one of his F-16s but I really dont want to mess with customs and waiting forever to get one to my door step.[&o]

tp777fo

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I havent had any trouble. PA uses BAX, they call, I go by pick up the papers and go to customs and clear it myself. $9.00 later I go back to BAX and pick up my jet.

WarbirdAirRacer

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hmmmmmmmmmmm......I will email him and see what happends.



EDIT.....ooops wrong SN.....damnit I hate having 2 user names[:@]

Thomas B

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Let me recorrect your corrections, even if someone else already did, above... There are F-16C aircraft with the parapack tail farings. You will find them on Turkish aircraft, IAF aircraft and Greek aircraft, at a minimum. No others immediately come to mind, but I could be missing some.

As requested, here is a photo of an F-16C with the parapack tail fairing in Greek Air Force color and markings. Interestingly enough, the Greek AF liked how the USN Top Gun Vipers looked in their three tone low viz camo and asked for their aircraft to wear the same colors and patterns.

Once again, with emphasis. The larger horizontal tail does not mean F-16C. Almost every single early F-16A was retrofitted with the larger horizonal tails. A few block 5 and a few block 10 aircraft were never updated. Interestingly enough, local R/Cer and very nice guy Phil Oestricher, the very fine test pilot that flew YF-16 flight "0", was telling the engineers all along that the horizontal tails were a little too small. Sure, enough, they were, and they ended up being enlarged to the size Phil was recommending.

Watch for some of the upcoming block 60 aircraft and take a close look at the vertical tail...

Tom Blakeney (works at the big fighter plant in west Fort Worth where we are popping out Falcons, big hunks of Raptors and even a few F-35 parts, too...)

Thomas B

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For good measure, here are a couple of more F-16C pictures with parapacks. IAF and Turkey.

Note that both of the IAF F-16s have the parapack, C and D. Side note: it is exceedingly rare to ever see a picture of an IAF aircraft with unit markings on it. These photos have had them removed. They even erased the rudder hinge line in the process of cleaning up the photo in Photoshop... Also, they are carrying live 'Winders, as evidenced by the brown and yellow striping.

(The parapack does not mean that there is a parachute involved. It just means it has the extended dorsal tail fairing, often used for electronics, as mentioned above...)