RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

It arrived today. Huge box. Half empty tho They might figure out how to pack this thing more tight to save on shipping.
The plane arrived without any shipping damages except the one slight ding in the front part of the cockpit. The sliding engine box was pushed pushed (during packing or by hitting the package) so far inside that it knocked off a pieco of balse from the bottom part of cackpit. No big deal, I found a piece, CA it back and additional lay a strap od 1/32 ply along.

Look on the picture how the fuselage is placed in the box. The knock to the front of package will push the engine box inside the fuselage.

Today I inspected all parts and weighted them. Total all parts in the box (without packing) are:

Fuselage - 41.4 oz
Cockpit assy - 4.5 oz
Cowling - 5.2 oz
Wheel pans - 2.6 oz (they are different weight: left is 1.4 oz, right is 1.2 oz)
Both wings with ailerons - 23.8 oz (left wing is 11.8 oz, right wing is 12.0 oz)
Horizontal stab with elevators - 4.4 oz
Fin and rudder - 3.3 oz
Aluminum wing tube - 6.2 oz
Landing gear - 6.1 oz
Wheels - 2 oz
Fuel tank - 2.4 oz
all hardware with engine mount and tail wheel assy - 9.8 oz

So total: 111.7 oz it is 7 lb[X(]

There is no way to make 9 lb plane of that. I think I can save a couple ounces by replacing aluminum wi9ng tube with CF one, aluminum LG with CF (I wonder if I can wind something that will fit) and maybe using lighter hardware.

Still kind of heavy wingloading. I was hoping for 25 or around.

Anyone with ideas for weight saving setup?

RysiuM

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

It is a heavier plane, but not a pig. The construction on it is awesome, I think. And so is the price. It flies great though.
You can save weight by using a CF tube and taking the wheel pants off. However it is ugly without pants eh heh.
I have one with a ST2300 in it. That engine was new and I ran it with a 18-8. It pulled it well but would not hover it. Maybe with an 18-6?? This engine wasn't even close to being broke in anyways. The perfect engine would be a YS 1.40dz . But you would need to cough up the mooola. I think another good engine would be a moki 1.5. lite and more powerful than the ST2300.
What engine are you planning on using?????

good luck with it.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I'm still looking for the engine. There is no way to get anything with decent power below 2 lb. for #D flying I'm looking into Saito 1.8 or RSC 140. I know RSC will be a couple ounces heavier than aito amd probably a little less power (thrust) but it may be worth it. Both engines cost the same but with gas I may get a better deal (overal). I don't know.

Instruction states 9.5 - 10.5 lb Doesn't leave much room from 7 lb of ARF weight.

Anyone knows what Wing tube size is it? And what kind of CF LG can fit?

RysiuM

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

Just measure the tube and you'll know. I don't know of anyone that makes landing gear for it. Might try tnt?? Or get the dimensions from the edge and see if you can find one similar. Hack it in half and put the holes where they belong.

The saito 1.80 will drink gas likes it's going out of style. If you must have a 4 stroke then go with a 1.5saito or ys1.40
I'd go with that Moki 1.5 on RCU marketplace for $150obo brand new. Plenty of power for IMAC and even 3D stuff. Plus it probably wouldn't go thru as much gas. It would also run on 0-5% nitro no problem. That's a heck of a lot cheaper than 25-30% heli. fuel. ha

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Tube is 0.870 inch - kind of close to 0.875 = 7/8inch. But if 7/8 fits - I don't know. Kind of expensive about 40 bucks just to find out, that it doesn't.

That I was thinking of. Just I need to contact all guys, who make CF landing gear to confirm measurments before I buy.

What is the weight of Moki 1.5 (with muffler)?

RysiuM

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

.870 is very close to 7/8. most alum. bar stock or any metal comes in a few thousands shy of what it's suppose to be. I don't see why a 7/8 carbon fiber tube wouldn't work. If it's tight, just do a little sanding. .005 isn't much.

About the carbon fiber landing gear and tube. I would think tnt or troy built would have those item. There are other people out there, but I can't think of them at all. Post a question in the composites forum. I'm sure someone could make ya one or something.

I don't know how much the Moki 1.5 weighs with muffler. It was on the marketplace, but I just checked and it isn't there anymore. Someone prolly snatched it up. For $150 that was a steal, for a good brand new engine.

good luck.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I was hoping for that. Good - I will get 7/8in tube. This will save me 4 ounces.

I looked at landing gears at Troybuiltmodels for the same size aircrafts and I was surprise to see that CF gear weughts 4-5oz. It is just 1-2oz less than aluminum one. I'm not sure if I want to spend 40 bucks to save just 2 ounces. CF tube is better deal: 4 ounces saving for 36 bucks



If only RC Showcase willbother to answer my e-mail I think I will get RCS 1.4. Whatever motor I use I will end up with 3.5 pounds (motor plus fuel). Actually with RSC I may get to as low as 3 lb for it. Still quite close to 10.5 lb for the plane unless I will do something about the hardware package.

I decided to not use epoxy at all. I will gus gorilla glue and carpertner white glue instead. OK, maybe just a little epoxy to secure the engine box.

RysiuM

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

The RCS 1.4 should be ok. I don't know if it will have enough thrust to hover it. Should be marginal.

Just stick with the alum. landing gear and don't put the wheel pants on. There is the weight savings instead of going CF

Make sure you install the engine, all radio equipment, battery, fuel tank at CG since you are going gas, before you epoxy that moveable engine box. When you have it all set up at the correct CG then epoxy that box in place.

have fun.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

RC Showcase claims 11 lb to hover. Also using 17x46 might turn more thrust than RCS recommended 16x8. But before I hover this plane I wil have probably already couple gallons through. And then using 95 with 1:100 might give me extra power. I know RSC motors can run on 1:100 syntetic oil quite well.


You are right Pans-less alu LG will weight the same as CF with pans. But without pans Edge looks ugly[&:]. So I have an idea to make pans from thin plastic - less than 1/2 oz a piece. Something thin yet strong and flexible. The kind of like soda bottle plastic.


As RCS 1.4 is 6.5 inch long I think I will need to put almost at the firewall (sliding the box all the way in). Therefore I will not need such long box. I will cut more than 3/4 of it (dead weight) leaving about 2 inches or less from the engine mount.

I need also to see what is the deal with the tail wheel. I saw quite heavy aluminum bracket that just wants to jump into the trash can

Next thing to save the weight is to mount the engine inverted so I will have to make a big cut out in the cowling's bottom. This way the cowling will loose 1 to 2 ounces.

I just need to focus like Iwould build a 4 oz shock flyer - every gram counts. Make evrything as light as possible but still strong - gas is a shaker.[X(]

Still any input is very welcome.

RysiuM

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

You are right about the tail wheel assm. Throw it in the trash. I used mine for a bit, but after a few landings it was squashed. Put a sullivan on it.

I had an FPE 2.4 on it at one time. It did shake pretty good, but this plane is built well that it won't bother it too much.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Now I think I figured out all servos. Tell me if I'm wrong. I wanted max performance but not overkill at minimum weight.

Rudder - HS-6985HB (172oz at 0.13s) at 1.83oz (52g)
Elevator - two HS-5245MG (76oz at 0.12z) at 1.12 oz (32g) each
Ailerons - two HS-5475BB (76oz at 0.18s) at 1.41oz (41g) each (or maybe the same as elvator)
Engine - HS-225BB (67oz at 0.11s) at 1.09 oz (31g) - This is good tought worker for gas engine

Total would be 8.1oz or 7.5 (if I use lighter servo for ailerons).

Any suggestions for that?

RysiuM

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

That servo arrangement is comparable to what I have on my Creek Edge, same size as your Powerline. So far it has flown only maybe twenty flights, but decent performance so far with that set-up. Actually I have 5475's on ailerons & elevators, with moderate IMAC type throws giving about a 3:1 torque advantage to the servos. I have a 5625 on the rudder, which has not been a problem, but I think I will replace it with something stronger for windy days.

I picked up the Powerline as a standby for the Creek, but haven't started assembling it yet. Creek LG broke on first landing, strut just snapped like a twig. I'm looking for CF gear to replace the aluminum that's on it now. Was looking at the GraphTech gear for the H9 1/4 Edge, but haven't called them yet.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I was thinking that 5475 would be good for ailerons but maybe to slow for elevator.

On my H9 Edge I have HS-945 (153 oz) on rudder and I don't see a torque problem either. However again for the speed 5625 may be to slow for rudder. Do you think HS-6975HB (144oz at 0.10s) would be better. I like to have fast tail on hover.

RysiuM

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

I have Hitec 6975 on my rudder. Very good torque and speed. Hitec 635's on the elevator. I think that's what they are. The high torque karbonites. Standard Airtronics on ailerons, and standard tower on throttle. My ailerons could use more speed, but oh well. You really don't need that much torque on airlerons. They help each other out anyways. Plus the ailerons aren't that big on this plane either.

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

I don't use my Edge for 3D, but if I did I'd want speed and torque for big throws. I'm still working out my 3D problems on smaller planes.

Rick75

My Feedback: (3)

I have this plane and I love it.
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1916431/anchors_2330794/mpage_2/key_/anchor/tm.htm#2330794[/link]

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

How well do you guys think the YS 120 fz will pull this plane??? Unlimitted verticle or would a 140dz be better?

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

Judging from looking at the plane in the box, I think it's a little heavy and draggy for the 120FZ. It would probably fly OK, but not unlimited vertical. Any of the YS1.40 versions should be good.

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

thats what I was thinking too. Mine is 10lbs with a ST2300. The ST and YS weigh the same pretty much.

Anyone want to buy another PL EDGE 540????? Mine is empty. $150

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Dry or with fuel. I'm still counting counting ounces and pounds and 10 lb seems impossible. I got the info that RCS 140 is 2.9lb all together (motor, buffler, spark plug, ignition, wires, switch battery and engine mount). It may be possible to save 2 to 4 ounces to total weight 2lb 10 oz. ( 42 oz). It wold be not bad as this is the weight of alternative glow engines. The saving will be on fuel weight. Instead of 20 oz glow I could use half of that gas.

But it is still a lot. Plane with all hardware (without glue) is 7 lb. 8 oz servos, 2 oz receiver, 4 oz battery pack. I'm going to 11 lb. Show me how can I make it lighter. So far I know:
- wing tube = -4oz
- wheel pans = -2 oz
- tail wheel = -1 oz
- engine box = -2 oz

RysiuM

majortom-RCU

My Feedback: (40)

Getting this down to 10 pounds strikes me as a tall order. I'd love to see you do it, but I am thinking more a strong 1.40, probably piped & pumped, or OS1.60FX would make everything wonderful. Have you factored in prop & spinner? Are you prepared to spend $$$ for CF spinner and lightened backplate?

IowaSilvia

My Feedback: (97)

I weighed mine dry, with a bathroom scale. I feel it isn't anymore than 10.5lbs. + fuel. No spinner and wood prop

Any Ideas for my YS 120??? Something for Imac and 3D?? Something good to learn on.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I know, it is a challenge. I'm still holding on with the engine. RCS is out of stock till May, Saito is in my LHS.
So the first priority is still the weight. First I will explore all options for weight saving before I buy the motor. I'm quite sure about the electronics, wing tube, and landing gear. I need to see what is the the deal with almost 10 oz of hardware included. I think I will see a big weight saving here.

Also 4.4 oz in horizontal stab looks heavy. But before I start tearing up the covering I need to verify the balancing. It wouldn't be smart to lighten the stab and then add lead

When I have all this set up then I will look which motor to choose. Both RCS 1.4 and Saito 180 are within the same weight range including fuel and mount (about 50-55 oz) so the decision will be made base on total weight. If I'm around 10 lb, I will go with RCS. If it cames around 11 lb, only Saito can handle such weight in 3D manner.

BTW funy thing - $180 plane will have $400 radio and $400 engine.


RysiuM

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

Yeah, have you looked at the flat foamy electrics? $39.95 for the airplane and you can't get it into the air for less than $450.

Makes saving a few buck on the airplane seem a lot less important.

Jim

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Think other way. Planes are disposable, electronics and motor is reusable After ulitamete crash all reusable partc can be moved to new frame after brief service (most of the time) - that makes the saving on disposable parts important.


One more thing. I just found HS-77. It might be better option for ailerons. It's not digital, but it may be not an issue. Important thing it is lighter than HS-5475HB (and faster). Anyway it was designed for wing. And saves money too.

RysiuM