H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
08-01-2006, 08:13 AM
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H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
OKay, I have read about all the wing problems you guys have had, and am scared @#$%-less to put mine back in the air. I like the idea of replacing the built up balsa wings with foam ones, but have no idea how to do this. I am a flyer, not a builder. Is there anyone out there that knows where I can have them professionaly made for me? I too love the way the Sukhoi looks and have seem them fly with DA-100s. Beautiful birds in action. But there is no way I am going to risk her if there is a know problem. Fix or no fix, I would feel better flying her with some strong foamies. Please help me.
08-01-2006, 12:46 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Just reapir yours.....it's super easy to do and it'll be more than strong enough to stand up anything you can throw at it. New wings are not needed.
Neo
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08-01-2006, 12:53 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
I am one who had theirs fail and sent it back into Horizon.
First they were going to replace it then they saw that I had a BME 100 on it and said no.
I would recommend that you get rid of it.
First they were going to replace it then they saw that I had a BME 100 on it and said no.
I would recommend that you get rid of it.
08-01-2006, 01:07 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Why in the world would you recommend that he get rid of it. There should first be some questions asked.
#1 When was the plane purchased. Early in the production cycle or later?
#2 If you pick the bird up by it's wing tips....is there excessive flex in the wings?
#3 If you look in the holes of the root rib, can you seen any cracks in the ribs and is the phenolic securely glued in?
This is the easiest way to see if you need to address the problem or not. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to trash them if a simple fix is available. 2 hours of work and a bottle of glue and they will be stong enough that you'll never have to worry about them again. Don't trash it.....take the time....inspect.....repair/reinforce if needed and fly the snot out of it. To have a set or cores cut and built....you'll be looking at more than the plane is worth.
Neo
#1 When was the plane purchased. Early in the production cycle or later?
#2 If you pick the bird up by it's wing tips....is there excessive flex in the wings?
#3 If you look in the holes of the root rib, can you seen any cracks in the ribs and is the phenolic securely glued in?
This is the easiest way to see if you need to address the problem or not. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to trash them if a simple fix is available. 2 hours of work and a bottle of glue and they will be stong enough that you'll never have to worry about them again. Don't trash it.....take the time....inspect.....repair/reinforce if needed and fly the snot out of it. To have a set or cores cut and built....you'll be looking at more than the plane is worth.
Neo
08-01-2006, 02:58 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
I always wanted one these Sukhois but read too many bad reports about the wings. When did the new productions runs start? How does one repair the problems<---details please?
Thanks
Frank Baity
AMA 38026
Thanks
Frank Baity
AMA 38026
08-01-2006, 08:24 PM
#7
RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Cut the covering off the bottom inner bays. Reglue the existing I-beam and then double up the shear webs by adding 1/8" vertical grain shear webs glued to the spars. I also went in with glue from the root rib holes forward of the I-beam and gave that area a good dose of glue as well. Recover the open bays and go fly. One night's work and your good to go. I did it and I'm glad I did.
I have a BME 102 on mine. I do low throttle blenders, walls, parachutes and half throttle multiple knife-edge to knife-edge snaps every time I take her to the field. No worries.
The problem is the I-beam wing. Fix that and the problem goes away. There is no magic involved. It's a classic thats worth saving.
Chuck
I have a BME 102 on mine. I do low throttle blenders, walls, parachutes and half throttle multiple knife-edge to knife-edge snaps every time I take her to the field. No worries.
The problem is the I-beam wing. Fix that and the problem goes away. There is no magic involved. It's a classic thats worth saving.
Chuck
08-03-2006, 11:18 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
I say this for a couple of reasons.
One, this is a fix that Hangar 9 will not perform.
Officially, they will not tell you how to fix it but will do so un-officially.
Not sure what else was done different than all the other H9 offerings.
I enjoyed my 33% Cap and Extra.
I will continue to purchase there 33% offerings.
I tried the Sukhoi twice and the wing was an issue both times.
One, this is a fix that Hangar 9 will not perform.
Officially, they will not tell you how to fix it but will do so un-officially.
Not sure what else was done different than all the other H9 offerings.
I enjoyed my 33% Cap and Extra.
I will continue to purchase there 33% offerings.
I tried the Sukhoi twice and the wing was an issue both times.
ORIGINAL: NeoGenesis
Why in the world would you recommend that he get rid of it. There should first be some questions asked.
#1 When was the plane purchased. Early in the production cycle or later?
#2 If you pick the bird up by it's wing tips....is there excessive flex in the wings?
#3 If you look in the holes of the root rib, can you seen any cracks in the ribs and is the phenolic securely glued in?
This is the easiest way to see if you need to address the problem or not. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to trash them if a simple fix is available. 2 hours of work and a bottle of glue and they will be stong enough that you'll never have to worry about them again. Don't trash it.....take the time....inspect.....repair/reinforce if needed and fly the snot out of it. To have a set or cores cut and built....you'll be looking at more than the plane is worth.
Neo
Why in the world would you recommend that he get rid of it. There should first be some questions asked.
#1 When was the plane purchased. Early in the production cycle or later?
#2 If you pick the bird up by it's wing tips....is there excessive flex in the wings?
#3 If you look in the holes of the root rib, can you seen any cracks in the ribs and is the phenolic securely glued in?
This is the easiest way to see if you need to address the problem or not. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason to trash them if a simple fix is available. 2 hours of work and a bottle of glue and they will be stong enough that you'll never have to worry about them again. Don't trash it.....take the time....inspect.....repair/reinforce if needed and fly the snot out of it. To have a set or cores cut and built....you'll be looking at more than the plane is worth.
Neo
08-03-2006, 11:45 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
There are a couple Sukhois here in the DFW metroplex that had loose wing tubes but they were caught and repaired as mentioned by other posters.
They continue to fly well and are a great sport plane capable of withstanding some pretty ham fisted flying.
I would keep it and repair the wings as the others have suggested.
This is not the first plane that Horizon has had with wing problems. The first run of their H-9 CAPs back in the late 90s had several wing failures.
They continue to fly well and are a great sport plane capable of withstanding some pretty ham fisted flying.
I would keep it and repair the wings as the others have suggested.
This is not the first plane that Horizon has had with wing problems. The first run of their H-9 CAPs back in the late 90s had several wing failures.
08-03-2006, 05:46 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Thanks to all for all the advice. I am going to keep it, and will do the repair. Wish me luck and keep your snaps tight.
08-03-2006, 10:46 PM
#13
RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Keep us posted on how it goes. I was out flying my Sukhoi tonight! I did at least 3 blenders, 3 parachutes and a couple walls. Use common sense and don't do any of these at high speed or high throttle and you will be fine.
John, when you get the covering off take a good look at the ribs. I had FIVE cracked ribs. Two on one wing and three on another. I was doing walls before the fix and heard a loud pop!
If you need help just post here or PM.
Chuck
John, when you get the covering off take a good look at the ribs. I had FIVE cracked ribs. Two on one wing and three on another. I was doing walls before the fix and heard a loud pop!
If you need help just post here or PM.
Chuck
08-04-2006, 06:55 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Good decision....I love mine and if it wasn't for a scratch built 35% suk in my near future........I wouldn't be selling it. Like CHM said......if you have questions, just ask...we'll do ur best to help you out.
Neo
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08-04-2006, 07:13 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
One of my flying buddies is desgining the 35% Suk. Prototpes will be built this winter.......it's going to be interesting. It'll be designed for a 100cc engine, but with 3 prototypes......we are going to vary the power in them. One will get a 80cc single on a canister, another will get a 100cc twin, the third which will be mine will most likely get a 150cc or similiar engine. Expected weight will be about 26-27 lbs with a 100cc twin. It's going to be scale in size, not slimmed and stretched like a lot of other planes on the market. So a 150cc engine will still fit in the cowl. We are going to do be doing everything ourselves, except possible the glasswork. So......it's going to be fun.........
Neo
Neo
08-04-2006, 07:19 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Keep us posted and if anything becomes available let us know....I am looking for a larger suki this winter (possibly) unless QQ's new Python is out...
08-04-2006, 07:45 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Hey guys....I'm the one designing the 100cc suk SU26 neo mentioned. The plans are basically finished...just need to get a full-sized set printed and reviewed/marked up. Then we'll start construction. I'm expecting to start cutting formers/templates in september/possibly october. Don't hold your breath waiting to hear how these things fly....they probably won't be finished until spring of 2007. If the maidens go well and the plane performs decently, I may offer plans/short-kits/full-kits in limited numbers.
The build will be "Carden-esque"....for lack of a better term. The fuse outline is very scale....pulled right off some nice 3-view drawings I found. The wing and stabs have been moved close to the thrust line to help the plane perform well. I know a lot of guys will complain that this is not scale...and they're right. But my design goals with this was to build something that looks something like a Sukhoi (since there's currently no big Suks on the market), but that flies as well as any yak, extra, ect.
Some basic specs:
wing span: 105"
wing area: 2161
length: 98"
weight: anywhere between 26 - 30lbs depending on wood selection, motor, elecs, ect.
It will be awhile, but I plan on posting a full build-thread of the first couple prototypes this winter. We've already found a source for the foam parts and all the wood, landing gear, wing tube/phenolics. Another buddy of ours has volunteered to make the cowls...but I'm not holding my breath on that one, LOL! The only real unknown in the project still is getting the canopy's pulled. It's easy enough to make the plug....but heating a sheet of plastic big enough for a 35% canopy may be challenging. I've never vac-formed anything before, so there's still some learning to be done there. If anyone knows of someone who will make custom canopy's, please let me know!
Here's a pic of the plans.....before some issues were resolved.
The build will be "Carden-esque"....for lack of a better term. The fuse outline is very scale....pulled right off some nice 3-view drawings I found. The wing and stabs have been moved close to the thrust line to help the plane perform well. I know a lot of guys will complain that this is not scale...and they're right. But my design goals with this was to build something that looks something like a Sukhoi (since there's currently no big Suks on the market), but that flies as well as any yak, extra, ect.
Some basic specs:
wing span: 105"
wing area: 2161
length: 98"
weight: anywhere between 26 - 30lbs depending on wood selection, motor, elecs, ect.
It will be awhile, but I plan on posting a full build-thread of the first couple prototypes this winter. We've already found a source for the foam parts and all the wood, landing gear, wing tube/phenolics. Another buddy of ours has volunteered to make the cowls...but I'm not holding my breath on that one, LOL! The only real unknown in the project still is getting the canopy's pulled. It's easy enough to make the plug....but heating a sheet of plastic big enough for a 35% canopy may be challenging. I've never vac-formed anything before, so there's still some learning to be done there. If anyone knows of someone who will make custom canopy's, please let me know!
Here's a pic of the plans.....before some issues were resolved.
08-04-2006, 07:59 AM
#19
RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
Looks good. I am contemplating an overhaul/recover of my H9 this winter - thinking about raising the wing and dropping the stab. I think your on the right track there.
08-04-2006, 08:22 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
The Extra 300L/300s/330xs has a low wing as well as the Cap...Why oh why does everyone raise the wing on the Sukhoi to make a Single seat Yakohi out of it...[&:][&:]
Anyhow your doing it for your purpose so good luck and keep us posted on your results..
Now my Professional advice (only worth about a half penny) would be to send a project my way (indy) and I will do the low wing version with a lowered stab for comparison..
Anyhow your doing it for your purpose so good luck and keep us posted on your results..
Now my Professional advice (only worth about a half penny) would be to send a project my way (indy) and I will do the low wing version with a lowered stab for comparison..
08-04-2006, 08:51 AM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
The reason in my mind is simple......rudder coupling. By bring the wing and stab closer in-line with each other, the plane becomes much more neutral feeling throughout the entire flight envelope. I've got a Carden Extra 330, a 35% Yak, and a 50cc Cuda that really opened my eyes to this. The 330 needs quite a bit of radio mixing to counter all the "tuck 'n roll" when you kick the rudder over. Yea, you can mix this out, but your mix is only really good for 1 speed and 1 throw setting. So if you set it up for higher speed KE passes, then try to do HA-KE, the mix is not adequate and you're back to constantly correcting the plane.
The Yak and Cuda I have are both built with the wings and stabs very nearly on the thrust line. Both of these planes are damn near perfect in KE regardless of the speed or rudder throw. They both just feel more balanced over all than the 330. Don't get me wrong, the 330 still flies awesome and I love it to death...but the yak and cuda are better at certain things.
Why do you think the Extra 260's and Yak's are so wildly popular right now? (I've even got a 32% Carden Yak on its way now...and I'm on the list for the 35% Carden 260) By designing a plane that doesn't need all the radio mixing of the low-wing/high-stab designs, the planes just fly better! So, like I said...my goal with this is to have something that looks at least a little like a Sukhoi, but that flies just as well as the 260's and Yaks. A perfect example is pattern planes....ever notice wing/stab placement on pattern planes?
Anyway....it would be a pretty simple matter of raising the stabs up to (close) to where they should be....but the wings can't be dropped at all without a lot of major, major rework of the motorbox area. Even if you did put them in the scale locations......it would fly fine for most stuff.....but the mid-wing suk will fly better.
The Yak and Cuda I have are both built with the wings and stabs very nearly on the thrust line. Both of these planes are damn near perfect in KE regardless of the speed or rudder throw. They both just feel more balanced over all than the 330. Don't get me wrong, the 330 still flies awesome and I love it to death...but the yak and cuda are better at certain things.
Why do you think the Extra 260's and Yak's are so wildly popular right now? (I've even got a 32% Carden Yak on its way now...and I'm on the list for the 35% Carden 260) By designing a plane that doesn't need all the radio mixing of the low-wing/high-stab designs, the planes just fly better! So, like I said...my goal with this is to have something that looks at least a little like a Sukhoi, but that flies just as well as the 260's and Yaks. A perfect example is pattern planes....ever notice wing/stab placement on pattern planes?
Anyway....it would be a pretty simple matter of raising the stabs up to (close) to where they should be....but the wings can't be dropped at all without a lot of major, major rework of the motorbox area. Even if you did put them in the scale locations......it would fly fine for most stuff.....but the mid-wing suk will fly better.
08-04-2006, 02:41 PM
#22
RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
I agree. I have coupling on my H9 Suk. I just moved my batteries forward and now have to spend a night tweaking the mixing because it all changed.
08-04-2006, 03:17 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
A member of my club just lost his recently built Sukhoi. In the middle of a roll the wing exploded. He had a ZDZ 80 Super on it (which had to be dug out of the ground [:'(] ) and if I remember correctly, less than a dozen flights. He's not a very aggressive flyer so the aiframe was never stressed. He contacted Horizon and they requested he send them the remains. I haven't heard a verdict yet. My H9 Cap takes it like a champ.
08-04-2006, 07:57 PM
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RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
I would be more than interested in knowing what happened.
Funny the ZDZ Super 80 is stronger than my BME 100.
They didn't cover my incident.
Funny the ZDZ Super 80 is stronger than my BME 100.
They didn't cover my incident.
ORIGINAL: AHPowelson
A member of my club just lost his recently built Sukhoi. In the middle of a roll the wing exploded. He had a ZDZ 80 Super on it (which had to be dug out of the ground [:'(] ) and if I remember correctly, less than a dozen flights. He's not a very aggressive flyer so the aiframe was never stressed. He contacted Horizon and they requested he send them the remains. I haven't heard a verdict yet. My H9 Cap takes it like a champ.
A member of my club just lost his recently built Sukhoi. In the middle of a roll the wing exploded. He had a ZDZ 80 Super on it (which had to be dug out of the ground [:'(] ) and if I remember correctly, less than a dozen flights. He's not a very aggressive flyer so the aiframe was never stressed. He contacted Horizon and they requested he send them the remains. I haven't heard a verdict yet. My H9 Cap takes it like a champ.
08-05-2006, 11:40 AM
#25
RE: H-9 33% Sukhoi wing troubles
ORIGINAL: JDM
Thanks to all for all the advice. I am going to keep it, and will do the repair. Wish me luck and keep your snaps tight.
Thanks to all for all the advice. I am going to keep it, and will do the repair. Wish me luck and keep your snaps tight.
Send questions & pics to [email protected]
I can help you get her fixed.
Chuck