Converting a P120
10-10-2007, 08:32 AM
#1
Converting a P120
I just lost my jet and p120 in a crash with the xps 2.4 system. The turbine case is dented, the motor tore off of the front, the ecu is broke, solenoids also... Anyway, it's going to cost the $ of a new turbine thru jetcat. I was wondering if it's possible to get another ecu system thru an aftermarket manufacturer and convert the p 120. I know that modelbau will convert 750's etc with new ecu, solenoids etc for around $500. If I could get it converted for under $1000 that's way better than $3K!!!!
Any ideas????
Any ideas????
10-10-2007, 09:43 AM
#2
RE: Converting a P120
Hey Jon,
This is not an answer to your question, I know, but are you sure it going to cost that much to repair the P-120? From the video, it didn't look too bad. A new ECU and two solenoids are going to cost you $550 or so, but if the fuel pump is still OK, that's cheeper than going with a whole new setup (about $900 for everything on-board except the turbine). I would think that if everything but the front cover, starter housing, and the electronics inside the front cover (it looks like they might be smashed) is OK, the repair to the turbine might be less than $1000 - just guessing...
Have you talked with JetCat about the repair?
Bob
This is not an answer to your question, I know, but are you sure it going to cost that much to repair the P-120? From the video, it didn't look too bad. A new ECU and two solenoids are going to cost you $550 or so, but if the fuel pump is still OK, that's cheeper than going with a whole new setup (about $900 for everything on-board except the turbine). I would think that if everything but the front cover, starter housing, and the electronics inside the front cover (it looks like they might be smashed) is OK, the repair to the turbine might be less than $1000 - just guessing...
Have you talked with JetCat about the repair?
Bob
10-10-2007, 09:43 AM
#3
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RE: Converting a P120
Get an ECU from Garpar ESPIELL (from NADES). It will cost your around 200 Euros and they are the best ECUs around. They are used as standard with several burbine manufacturers.
http://www.espiell.com/
http://www.espiell.com/
10-10-2007, 09:57 AM
#4
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RE: Converting a P120
Sorry to hear about your loss, but remember that the electronics mounted under the engine cowling (Starter, RPM and Thermocouple) have to be able to communicate with the ECU. I doubt that JetCat would have designed their on-board electronic package to be compatible with any other brand ECU.
In order to switch ECU types, you would need to change the thermocouple, RPM sensor and starter to a compatible type.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
In order to switch ECU types, you would need to change the thermocouple, RPM sensor and starter to a compatible type.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-10-2007, 10:01 AM
#5
RE: Converting a P120
Looking at it quick, starter motor, plastic inlet to the turbine, the fuel pump lost 1 of the nipples, the solenoids are trashed, the ecu is busted, the front cover of the turbine is dented and the plug for the electronics is twisted so I'll bet the onboard electronics are wasted. The out can has some good dents in it so.... The turbine does turn freely and all of the fins appear to be in good shape with no chips etc..
I figure threw jetcat I'm looking at a totally new install package, ie ecu, solenoids, pump, + turbine electronics and starter motor. About the only thing left that's probably alright is the internal turbine works itself...
I figure threw jetcat I'm looking at a totally new install package, ie ecu, solenoids, pump, + turbine electronics and starter motor. About the only thing left that's probably alright is the internal turbine works itself...
10-10-2007, 10:01 AM
#6
RE: Converting a P120
ORIGINAL: Harley Condra
Sorry to hear about your loss, but remember that the electronics mounted under the engine cowling (Starter, RPM and Thermocouple) have to be able to communicate with the ECU. I doubt that JetCat would have designed their on-board electronic package to be compatible with any other brand ECU.
In order to switch ECU types, you would need to change the thermocouple, RPM sensor and starter to a compatible type.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Sorry to hear about your loss, but remember that the electronics mounted under the engine cowling (Starter, RPM and Thermocouple) have to be able to communicate with the ECU. I doubt that JetCat would have designed their on-board electronic package to be compatible with any other brand ECU.
In order to switch ECU types, you would need to change the thermocouple, RPM sensor and starter to a compatible type.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
well for using the fadec you can rip out all the jetcats guts.
the fadec comes complete....
10-10-2007, 10:08 AM
#9
RE: Converting a P120
ORIGINAL: B58
John, what happened with the xps? I am using one too. Bob
John, what happened with the xps? I am using one too. Bob
? All indications now are that the xps unit failed?? I can't find anything else that could account for the failure...
All of my xps stuff will be in 60 size or less aircraft for now on...
10-10-2007, 10:24 AM
#11
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RE: Converting a P120
Yes they are still in business. Maybe you can contact Wren as they use and sell NADES products.
http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/
http://www.wrenturbines.co.uk/
10-10-2007, 10:39 AM
#12
RE: Converting a P120
Jon,
If you dig into it, the links actually go here:
http://www.xicoy.com/catalog/index.php
It looks to me that the prices for that stuff (ECU, solenoids, etc.) are equivalent to JetCat. I would give JetCat a call and see what they say. Also, if your engine is trashed, they will give you credit on it towards another engine...
Bob
If you dig into it, the links actually go here:
http://www.xicoy.com/catalog/index.php
It looks to me that the prices for that stuff (ECU, solenoids, etc.) are equivalent to JetCat. I would give JetCat a call and see what they say. Also, if your engine is trashed, they will give you credit on it towards another engine...
Bob
It looks like jetjoe used nades as well
10-10-2007, 12:38 PM
#14
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RE: Converting a P120
Just to be clear, these questions are serious and from a point of ignorance (I have no experience with jetcat):
Are Jetcat thermocouples different from everyone else's K-type, industry standard thermocouples? The reason I ask is that the industrial ones are basically a commodity now and I haven't personally seen replacement ones from the turbine manufacturers costing any more than you could get elsewhere.
What about the fuel pump design? I figured there really wasn't anything special there - the motor's throttled based upon rpm and temperature, so IN THEORY you should be able to use an aftermarket one like a Flightworks pump.
Selenoids, I think may be particular for voltage and normally off condition; thought I read that here.
How about the sensors under the hood? I'm guessing a hall effect sensor using a magnet built into the nose cone?
ECU's, I know are particularly "Universal" with the mechanics of the turbine, afterall that's what home-builders have been doing for years.
Given the above, I think that it would be economically feasible to convert the Jetcat can or any other turbine can, if you replaced all the electronics, except the starter motor and pump.
This has wide application to recycling some old, but still useful turbine mechanics hanging out there.
Are Jetcat thermocouples different from everyone else's K-type, industry standard thermocouples? The reason I ask is that the industrial ones are basically a commodity now and I haven't personally seen replacement ones from the turbine manufacturers costing any more than you could get elsewhere.
What about the fuel pump design? I figured there really wasn't anything special there - the motor's throttled based upon rpm and temperature, so IN THEORY you should be able to use an aftermarket one like a Flightworks pump.
Selenoids, I think may be particular for voltage and normally off condition; thought I read that here.
How about the sensors under the hood? I'm guessing a hall effect sensor using a magnet built into the nose cone?
ECU's, I know are particularly "Universal" with the mechanics of the turbine, afterall that's what home-builders have been doing for years.
Given the above, I think that it would be economically feasible to convert the Jetcat can or any other turbine can, if you replaced all the electronics, except the starter motor and pump.
This has wide application to recycling some old, but still useful turbine mechanics hanging out there.
10-10-2007, 05:09 PM
#15
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RE: Converting a P120
Chuck,
As a point of info, JetCat P-120 RPM sensors are optical....not Hall Effect.
Jon,
Why don't you call Bob Wilcox at JetCat USA for an estimate for the engine core repairs, and buy an installation kit from him? It includes all of the stuff you need for around $900.00
You could could probably be back in the air for around $1500.00 or so. That's lots cheaper than the price of a new or used engine.
In the end, should you eventually decide to sell it, it is worth allot more complete with all JetCat parts, instead of being "*******ized" with parts and pieces from all over. It would be easily serviceable too. Just my humble opinion.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
As a point of info, JetCat P-120 RPM sensors are optical....not Hall Effect.
Jon,
Why don't you call Bob Wilcox at JetCat USA for an estimate for the engine core repairs, and buy an installation kit from him? It includes all of the stuff you need for around $900.00
You could could probably be back in the air for around $1500.00 or so. That's lots cheaper than the price of a new or used engine.
In the end, should you eventually decide to sell it, it is worth allot more complete with all JetCat parts, instead of being "*******ized" with parts and pieces from all over. It would be easily serviceable too. Just my humble opinion.
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
10-10-2007, 05:17 PM
#16
RE: Converting a P120
$1500 is a little much for me right now.. It needs a starter motor, optical board (The board in the front housing) the front cover, starter motor support assembly and maybe the outer can as it has some pretty good dings also..
It is cheaper than buying a new one though...
It is cheaper than buying a new one though...
10-10-2007, 05:23 PM
#17
RE: Converting a P120
ORIGINAL: jonkoppisch
I just lost my jet and p120 in a crash with the xps 2.4 system. The turbine case is dented, the motor tore off of the front, the ecu is broke, solenoids also... Anyway, it's going to cost the $ of a new turbine thru jetcat. I was wondering if it's possible to get another ecu system thru an aftermarket manufacturer and convert the p 120.
I just lost my jet and p120 in a crash with the xps 2.4 system. The turbine case is dented, the motor tore off of the front, the ecu is broke, solenoids also... Anyway, it's going to cost the $ of a new turbine thru jetcat. I was wondering if it's possible to get another ecu system thru an aftermarket manufacturer and convert the p 120.
I'm sorry for your loss, but with what we expect of our jets and how unforgiving they are I'd hate to see you put a bandaid on the motor to save $500 only to have it cost you the next $5000 jet! My feelings are; fix it correctly now so that it doesn't cost you later.
Joe
]
10-10-2007, 06:40 PM
#25
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RE: Converting a P120
Looking at the video the enine doesn't look too bad, it is definitely repairable. Trying to make the P-120 work using another manufacturer's ECU would be some serious rework. I believe most all use a magnetic pickup on the front spinner nut to read RPM. The P-120 does not, so some good machining to make that happen will be in order. Also once that spinner nut is removed you will need to rebalance the motor as the compressor whel will turn and throw the motor out of balance. I persoannly would not recommend it.
All in all the motor will take around $700 in parts to bring back to life, plus some labor. An install kit will will be needed by the sounds of it. SOrry for the loss, but unfortunately when this happens it routinely takes some cash to bring it back to life. If you can't fix it today, why not hold on to it for a few months and fix it later. You still need to replace the plane as well. The flash is a great flying bird. Hope you can bring it back to life again.
All in all the motor will take around $700 in parts to bring back to life, plus some labor. An install kit will will be needed by the sounds of it. SOrry for the loss, but unfortunately when this happens it routinely takes some cash to bring it back to life. If you can't fix it today, why not hold on to it for a few months and fix it later. You still need to replace the plane as well. The flash is a great flying bird. Hope you can bring it back to life again.