wingstrut

Fellow pilots, I have been flying nitro powered aircraft for 25 years, now I would like to get into gas.
I have a balsa usa sopwith pup and I think I would like to go with the Zenoah G 26.
all of the guys at the field presently are running G26's with magneto spark and having no problems.
Is electronic ignition really worth all the added expense and trouble having to deal with the extra battery and finding a place to mount the ignition module? All I hear is that they start easier.....There are four guys at the field who use magneto sparked Zenoahs and I've never seen them hand flip the prop more than three times......... Thank you in advance for your help.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

I think it depends what you are comfortable with.

Honestly adding an igniton and battery is not all that complicated really. What I would make the determining factor is whether or not you need the extra weight for balance issues. Pereformance wise you aren't going to see any difference.

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

Some guys have the knack and some don't. You have to start the flip quite a bit before TDC in order to get a spark. This is because the magnet in the G26 flywheel passes under the coil earlier than the piston hits TDC. You also have to flip it briskly. I know a guy who can seldom flip-start his G26 but it fires right up when he uses a starter to spin it.

CR

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

my g38 on magneto starts easy. no need to convert it to electronic ignition for starting purposes.

Checklst

I used a starter on my G26..........my manual stated that pickup only would only spark if it was moved past the pickup at 200rpm speed.............that's not all that hard to do but you are only going to get one spark per slap/flip.................the trick is getting the carb set up right and the right routine down to have the proper amount of gas and air to take advantage of the one spark.

Mine would start by hand, but it required you to SLAP the prop (like Charley) said you must start before the TDC , and that requires a quick SLAP before compression....... even with a glove I was not comfortable doing this........ so I used a starter.

I just fired up my new 40cc with EI and I start it by hand, you just bring her up to compression and flip the prop with a follow through motion......no slap......this feel better and she started in just 3 flips choke and 3 flips non choke.

wingstrut

Thank you, Jake, Charley and Mrbigg....Your answers are much appreciated.
I think I will go with the magneto.

wingstrut

Thank you checklst I appreciate the info

Propwash-don

My Feedback: (37)

Wingstrut, I usual don't get into these Thread dscussions but this one hits close to home. My first gas engine was a Zenoah G-26. And after 30 years of flying glow and big stuff like 180's I found the G-26 to be a big pain in the you know what to start. And it's not just me, but most of the old time gas guys in the club, the ones that talked me into a Zenoah in the first place, the ones that fly nothing but G-62's (in their Warbirds) gave up on their G-26's and sold them. So you better be sure the 4 guys at your field are flying 26's and not the bigger Zenoah engines with spring starters. I ended up getting a hi-torque starter (you will need two 12 volt batteris) to start mine. Now that I have that, it starts fine, and runs great and I have never had a bit of trouble with it. So after having other engines with electronic ignitions I would say that since you will more than likely have to go with a $100.00 plus for a starter and batteries you just as well off spending the money on the electronic ignition model.
And don't rule out other 26's on the market either. Good Luck

wingstrut

Propwash, These guys are running G26's and they are hand cranking them.
but I understand what you are saying, it could have been you had a weak coil or something.
I will further check this out before I buy, and it may be wise to go with the electronic ignition after all. thank you for the time and information............Wingstrut

Checklst

Opps forgot to add the G26 is easy to start with a normal (glow starter) ......most at our field use starters for the G26 mag. EI for the larger engines they hand prop.....Propwash does bring up a good point about larger batts or higher voltage for the larger starters,most of these larger starters require both hands and a second person to hold you plane so you can push back on the plane with the starter. That's why most just go EI on the larger engines.

It sounds like this will be your first gas I would suggest the G26 and a normal starter and this setup will make your transition into gas easier and let you concentrate on having fun flying.

Stickbuilder

And don't forget with your Sopwith Pup, you will probably need all the weight up front that you can get, and the magneto weighs more than the electronic ignition system.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

wingstrut

Checklst, I called Scott Ellingson of Brellelli model engines, and asked him about his engine in the 26 size.
His engines are mainly for the person wanting a little more oomph from an engine.
He also said that the Zenoah G26 magneto would be my better choice for the 1/4 scale sopwith because of the slower flying characteristics. plus I will need the extra weight to balance the plane.
He stated that the mag engines start just fine if you set the prop in the proper position and make sure that the air gap for the mag coil is set tight.
I hope Scott doesn't mind that I wrote what he said, as I understand he makes some of the best performing engines around.

Stickbuilder, You are right it is better to have a heavy engine than to add lead.

Propwash-don

My Feedback: (37)

Wingstrut, All I can say is mine was new out of the box and beleive me it was no Saito 180 to turn over, my standard heavy duty starter that would start my biggest glow engines with no problem WOULD NOT EVEN BUDGE THAT PUPPY. That engine , (mine at least) liked to be good and flooded to start, and at my age by the time I did that I was ready for a nap. When I frist tried the hi-torgue starter I used 24 volts, and that was to much, its like Checklist said you need 20 guys to hold the thing down. So why go through all that, go with the IE model 2 or 3 flips after prim (sometimes one on my FPE) by hand and away you go.
The 26 is a great engine, just went out yesterday, hadn't been since the start of Winter and she started right up and ran like a top (after sitting for 2 months). But you know I haven tried to start it buy hand now that its broken in, but since I have the starter why bother.

Propwash-don

wingstrut

Propwash, I need a nap just thinking about starting one of these things.
I think I'm getting the whole picture now, thanks to all you good people who took the time to answer my question.
It's easy with nitro they all require the same starting equipment, gas is different.

arobatx

Don't let anyone scare you off. The zenoah 26 is a very good engine. Leave it stock as others have said, you will need the weight up front. We have many of these engines in our club, they all start fine by hand, and with the normal sullivan starter as well. The ones with EI are easier to start by hand, but that just means you need not pay any attention to prop location when you flip it. Just a little attention to prop position before a strong flip, and you are fine. No extra money on a starter is needed here...I would bet that those with considerable problems hand flipping OEM 26's have carbs that are out of tune, or simply don't pay attention to the flip tecnique required for most mag engines. Whichever way you go, enjoy....and keep us posted.


Chad

crashproof

I start My G 26 Mag with a regular glow engine starter fires right up. One thing to keep in mind if you use the starter it will spin it plenty fast no need to choke the engine. I never touch my choke the starter will pull the fuel with no problem. If you choke it then put the starter on it you may flood it. Good Luck, Kevin.

wingstrut

Thanks Chad, I'm pretty confident that the mag powered Zenoah is what I will get.
They have been using magneto's on engines for the last eighty years, it just takes a little understanding of how to start them.
Like I said before there are four gentlemen in the club who have them also and have no problems starting them by hand.

You are very reassuring with your answer.

I have built and flown almost every scale aircraft from WWll,
now that I am up in my years I am interested in building every one of WW l vintage.
My skills are not as sharp as they used to be, I tried helicopters this past year, I did not crash but I did realize that helis are for the quick reflex people.
I have flown airplanes too long..... could not get used to flying helis.

Thank you again Chad....and every one have a good and properous new year.

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

Here's one I use that will start my Saito 1.50 and my G26. It didn't cost too much either.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXJC37&P=ML

One proviso; you need a more powerful battery than a 7AH gel cell. I use a lawn tractor battery; around 40 bucks from Wally World, et al.

CR

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

I gave up on 3D for the same reason. I'm just not quick enough for rolling circles 10' off the ground. At almost 70 yrs old, my reflexes don't cut it any more. Let's hear it for graceful aerobatics!!

CR

karolh

Hear hear .

Wingstrut,

Don't be the least intimidated in trying to hand start a mag. ignition G26, it's not that hard to do. It's all about the position of your prop in relation to the magnets, and I'm sure the Zenoah guys at your field will see you go right. Before my mag. G23 was upgraded to EI it was fairly easy to hand start and as it broke in it got even easier, now you just think about it and it starts... well almost.

Karol

Propwash-don

My Feedback: (37)

Wingstrut, Why don't you ask one or more of your flying buddies with the G-26 if you could let you slap start their engines so you could get the feel for it. I know you are more than welcome to try mine, (but it's a long drive) and when you master that guy, you can have a shoot at my G-62. All kidding aside that would give you a hands on feel for what your getting into, and you would know that they are already set up right.

arobatx

A properly setup mag ingnition engine for our hobby, will require just a bit of understanding to get the starting procedure into habit. Properly tune the engine through break-in, and you'll find them just as easy to start as the EI equivilants....no matter the brand. I don't want you thinking that this is an issue limited to Zenoah by any means

Myself, Karolh, and others would be happy to help you out further if you need assistance.

Chad

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

I have an easy starting G38 on magneto in my Fokker DR1. It starts real easy. It's going up for sale here pretty quick. I'm going to put a bigger engine in it.

wingstrut

A BIG THANK YOU......to all the folks that wrote in regards to my question.
It is really great to see so many people come to my aid.
I will be here if ever I can help someone.
Been flying planes a long time...just new to gas power
I'm also a new member to RCUNIVERSE and you folks gave me a warm welcome.

wingstrut

Hey propwash I have a 1950 john deere tractor 200 cubic inch two cylinder that is magneto fired you aught to try that one...Ha!Ha!
I'm glad you guys have a sense of humor.