FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
10-20-2008, 10:58 AM
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FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
The G.P. Christen E. Bipe A.R.F. a 27% model is a little limited as far as gas engines are concerned. The distance from the box in front of firewall to spinner backplate 6 1/2" Opening up the box a little might be an answer. However an engine that can be used after changing to a short prop hub is the FUJI BT-50SB. This engine is equipped with ei so should start ok. Any opinion on this engine. Thanks
10-20-2008, 11:14 AM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Too much engine (weight) and too little airplane in wing area. The 33% Eagles and Pitts' had issues with heavy 50cc engines and in your case you're going waaay over the top. It would fly ok as a race plane but not worth diddly as a sport plane. You will have to be an expert and excersize extreme care with every landing. The runway will also have to be quite long to set up the approach and perform the roll out because of all the speed the plane will need to carry to compensate for the weight. The glide ratio of a piano would be close to that of a 27% bipe with a super over weight engine and being ultra nose heavy. You could offset the nose weight by adding a lot of weight to the tail, making the wing loading that much worse. Propeller ground clearance will be another issue to consider. Then again, you could have a set of gear made up with real long legs to permit ground clearance. More weight....
So with the above in mind it's all up to you. Not a good idea though. If I wanted to use that 50 I'd wait for a larger plane. I'd also look for a different 50.
So with the above in mind it's all up to you. Not a good idea though. If I wanted to use that 50 I'd wait for a larger plane. I'd also look for a different 50.
10-20-2008, 09:43 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
A friend of mine "gadgetplanes" here on RCU has this setup with the stock ignition, electric starter, starter batteries and smoke. The Fuji runs fine and powers the plane scale like but heavy. Landing with a full smoke and fuel tanks can be tricky. With an empty smoke tank and no starter batteries it flies even better. It's not a 3D plane but does fly nice.
10-20-2008, 10:00 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Back when, I did the in-house development on the GP Christen Eagle ARF. It was tested/developed mostly using a Fuji 50. As an asside, I also had to do some engine testing on the Pitts - same airframe and wings as the Eagle. Both planes flew "scale-like" with the Fuji 50's. They flew great, fine, but could definitely use more power to bring them up to "modern" expectations. Take this with a grain of salt if you must (knowing I work for the Company), but both planes were surprisingly easy to fly, did not handle "heavy" in flight, and landed well. And today, a few years removed from both of these projects, I have even more experience with gas engines as I have been flying several GP 27% Extra 330S ARFs with Fuji 43s and DL 50s. I also have a GP 27% Edge with a DL 50 (rocketship!). I know what under powered and over powered planes in this size range fly like. That said, the Eagles and the Pitts' fly well with Fuji 50s, but most people would probably want more power. 
10-20-2008, 11:35 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
I failed to note he said G.P. but saw the 27% instead. I'll still stand by my comments on the plane being a sled with a heavy engine. It flys ok with a Brison or Taurus 3.2'sTrue 50cc engines, with far more power than it needs but both of those are considerably lighter than the Fuji 50. Landing speeds with either the Taurus or the Brison are fast. Glide slope is a non event because it doesn't have one.
I had one of the first batch Pitts and had a Brison 3.2 in it that fit nicely. I was the one that wrote about 3 pages of "fix-its", having done them myself, in this forum several years back. I know that plane well. When I looked at the Christen immediately after it came out I didn't see any significant differences in the way the plane was made or user assembled, so essentially the same plane with a different paint job. It will still weigh much too much for the wing area and wing planform. It's a fast wing. If it could be kept at 14-15 pounds it would be a real nice plane with just about any engine in the 40 to 50cc class of reasonable weight.
Yes the plane is easy to fly, but not easy to land unless you have a lot of field. The original magazine review was done on a grass field if I recall correctly. On a fast runway it's a handful to keep from bouncing and breaking props when heavy. There are better choices for the Fuji 50 if you already have it. If you don't I'm with Bob in suggesting a lighter engine. You're gonna need all the help you can get to keep the weight managable.
I had one of the first batch Pitts and had a Brison 3.2 in it that fit nicely. I was the one that wrote about 3 pages of "fix-its", having done them myself, in this forum several years back. I know that plane well. When I looked at the Christen immediately after it came out I didn't see any significant differences in the way the plane was made or user assembled, so essentially the same plane with a different paint job. It will still weigh much too much for the wing area and wing planform. It's a fast wing. If it could be kept at 14-15 pounds it would be a real nice plane with just about any engine in the 40 to 50cc class of reasonable weight.
Yes the plane is easy to fly, but not easy to land unless you have a lot of field. The original magazine review was done on a grass field if I recall correctly. On a fast runway it's a handful to keep from bouncing and breaking props when heavy. There are better choices for the Fuji 50 if you already have it. If you don't I'm with Bob in suggesting a lighter engine. You're gonna need all the help you can get to keep the weight managable.
10-21-2008, 01:56 AM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
ORIGINAL: krproton
Back when, I did the in-house development on the GP Christen Eagle ARF. It was tested/developed mostly using a Fuji 50. As an asside, I also had to do some engine testing on the Pitts - same airframe and wings as the Eagle. Both planes flew "scale-like" with the Fuji 50's. They flew great, fine, but could definitely use more power to bring them up to "modern" expectations. Take this with a grain of salt if you must (knowing I work for the Company), but both planes were surprisingly easy to fly, did not handle "heavy" in flight, and landed well. And today, a few years removed from both of these projects, I have even more experience with gas engines as I have been flying several GP 27% Extra 330S ARFs with Fuji 43s and DL 50s. I also have a GP 27% Edge with a DL 50 (rocketship!). I know what under powered and over powered planes in this size range fly like. That said, the Eagles and the Pitts' fly well with Fuji 50s, but most people would probably want more power.
Back when, I did the in-house development on the GP Christen Eagle ARF. It was tested/developed mostly using a Fuji 50. As an asside, I also had to do some engine testing on the Pitts - same airframe and wings as the Eagle. Both planes flew "scale-like" with the Fuji 50's. They flew great, fine, but could definitely use more power to bring them up to "modern" expectations. Take this with a grain of salt if you must (knowing I work for the Company), but both planes were surprisingly easy to fly, did not handle "heavy" in flight, and landed well. And today, a few years removed from both of these projects, I have even more experience with gas engines as I have been flying several GP 27% Extra 330S ARFs with Fuji 43s and DL 50s. I also have a GP 27% Edge with a DL 50 (rocketship!). I know what under powered and over powered planes in this size range fly like. That said, the Eagles and the Pitts' fly well with Fuji 50s, but most people would probably want more power.
If you were responsible for the Eagle, I want to thank you for the enjoyment I have had with 2 (two) Eagles.
I fly at 4000asl and a person learns what his a/c will do, by flying it.
Look at the vibration thread and find my feeling about the thing.
Nice job!
Zee Ama129570
10-21-2008, 07:03 AM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Several years ago I owned a GP CE with exactly that motor (Fuji 50) in its nose. It flew O.K. Not as bad as the Trired Old Man explained. It was heavy overall but not a brick. Yes, landings were a hassle and required all of your attention. I even flew it with a G-38 in it for a while. You are better off with a DL50 or similar than with the Fuji 50, which, BTW, is only a true 46cc.
10-21-2008, 02:21 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Thanks for opinions I am assuming you are aware Fuji engine BT-50SB sold few years ago was 5.5 lbs
Present 50cc is BT-50EI and is 3.5 lbs (w/o muffler) or do you still have negative opinions ? Suggest an engine ? Any knowledge or experience with XYZ ? Are you guys aware of the 6 & 1/2 inch max limit in length of engine to be installed firewall to backplate, it makes selections of engines very small unless you want to rip out the box in front of firewall. How about a twin saito but I will need to re-mortgage my house.
Present 50cc is BT-50EI and is 3.5 lbs (w/o muffler) or do you still have negative opinions ? Suggest an engine ? Any knowledge or experience with XYZ ? Are you guys aware of the 6 & 1/2 inch max limit in length of engine to be installed firewall to backplate, it makes selections of engines very small unless you want to rip out the box in front of firewall. How about a twin saito but I will need to re-mortgage my house.
10-21-2008, 02:33 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
NOT FOR ANYTHING BUT THE TRUE SCALE, THIS MODEL = 28.7% I have built approx 3 dozen models but
do not recall having this much trouble selecting an engine. Even the Fuji engine is a problem, in that: you must use the "short prop hub" to make the 6 & 1/2 inch max and it may not be available, incidentally I have not purchased any engine yet.
do not recall having this much trouble selecting an engine. Even the Fuji engine is a problem, in that: you must use the "short prop hub" to make the 6 & 1/2 inch max and it may not be available, incidentally I have not purchased any engine yet.
10-21-2008, 03:51 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
If you have not commited how about going electric? A Hacker 60-16m weighs 26 oz and 14 A123 cells at 2.5oz/ea=35 oz for a total of 61 oz or 3.8 lb. That Hacker on 14 A123 cells will turn a 19x10 at better than 7000rpm. It will only last about 2.5 min at full throttle but if you cut back to 80% throttle after take off, you will get a 5 minute flight, and you can recharge those A123 cells in 15 minutes if you have a good charger.
The fuel costs nothing and you don't have to scrub your airplane after flying. And there is lots fewer things that can go wrong.
Cost? Hacker from Viper Hobbies in Mesa $159.00 Batteries from Ebay $168.00 ESC from Hobby city in Hong Kong $108.00 =$435.
The fuel costs nothing and you don't have to scrub your airplane after flying. And there is lots fewer things that can go wrong.
Cost? Hacker from Viper Hobbies in Mesa $159.00 Batteries from Ebay $168.00 ESC from Hobby city in Hong Kong $108.00 =$435.
10-21-2008, 04:35 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
If you have not commited how about going electric? A Hacker 60-16m weighs 26 oz and 14 A123 cells at 2.5oz/ea=35 oz for a total of 61 oz or 3.8 lb. That Hacker on 14 A123 cells will turn a 19x10 at better than 7000rpm. It will only last about 2.5 min at full throttle but if you cut back to 80% throttle after take off, you will get a 5 minute flight, and you can recharge those A123 cells in 15 minutes if you have a good charger.
The fuel costs nothing and you don't have to scrub your airplane after flying. And there is lots fewer things that can go wrong.
Cost? Hacker from Viper Hobbies in Mesa $159.00 Batteries from Ebay $168.00 ESC from Hobby city in Hong Kong $108.00 =$435.
If you have not commited how about going electric? A Hacker 60-16m weighs 26 oz and 14 A123 cells at 2.5oz/ea=35 oz for a total of 61 oz or 3.8 lb. That Hacker on 14 A123 cells will turn a 19x10 at better than 7000rpm. It will only last about 2.5 min at full throttle but if you cut back to 80% throttle after take off, you will get a 5 minute flight, and you can recharge those A123 cells in 15 minutes if you have a good charger.
The fuel costs nothing and you don't have to scrub your airplane after flying. And there is lots fewer things that can go wrong.
Cost? Hacker from Viper Hobbies in Mesa $159.00 Batteries from Ebay $168.00 ESC from Hobby city in Hong Kong $108.00 =$435.
Then multiply your battery of choice by a factor of three or four, so you can fly three or four times without recharging, once you have found a battery that will provide ten to fifteen minute flights.
I love electric power along with all other forms of power, but, for me, I can't see electric power being practical for anything but .50 sized models and downward in the foreseeable future.
I know it goes against the whole ARF philosophy thing, but knocking out the original firewall and refitting with a firewall that allows more engine room shouldn't be that difficult, nor time consuming, to do.
Yes, I have one of these models NIB. I'm thinking about using my ancient Tartan Twin gas/oil engine in it.
Ed Cregger
10-21-2008, 06:18 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
Then multiply your battery of choice by a factor of three or four, so you can fly three or four times without recharging, once you have found a battery that will provide ten to fifteen minute flights.
I love electric power along with all other forms of power, but, for me, I can't see electric power being practical for anything but .50 sized models and downward in the foreseeable future.
I know it goes against the whole ARF philosophy thing, but knocking out the original firewall and refitting with a firewall that allows more engine room shouldn't be that difficult, nor time consuming, to do.
Yes, I have one of these models NIB. I'm thinking about using my ancient Tartan Twin gas/oil engine in it.
Ed Cregger
ORIGINAL: dirtybird
If you have not commited how about going electric? A Hacker 60-16m weighs 26 oz and 14 A123 cells at 2.5oz/ea=35 oz for a total of 61 oz or 3.8 lb. That Hacker on 14 A123 cells will turn a 19x10 at better than 7000rpm. It will only last about 2.5 min at full throttle but if you cut back to 80% throttle after take off, you will get a 5 minute flight, and you can recharge those A123 cells in 15 minutes if you have a good charger.
The fuel costs nothing and you don't have to scrub your airplane after flying. And there is lots fewer things that can go wrong.
Cost? Hacker from Viper Hobbies in Mesa $159.00 Batteries from Ebay $168.00 ESC from Hobby city in Hong Kong $108.00 =$435.
If you have not commited how about going electric? A Hacker 60-16m weighs 26 oz and 14 A123 cells at 2.5oz/ea=35 oz for a total of 61 oz or 3.8 lb. That Hacker on 14 A123 cells will turn a 19x10 at better than 7000rpm. It will only last about 2.5 min at full throttle but if you cut back to 80% throttle after take off, you will get a 5 minute flight, and you can recharge those A123 cells in 15 minutes if you have a good charger.
The fuel costs nothing and you don't have to scrub your airplane after flying. And there is lots fewer things that can go wrong.
Cost? Hacker from Viper Hobbies in Mesa $159.00 Batteries from Ebay $168.00 ESC from Hobby city in Hong Kong $108.00 =$435.
Then multiply your battery of choice by a factor of three or four, so you can fly three or four times without recharging, once you have found a battery that will provide ten to fifteen minute flights.
I love electric power along with all other forms of power, but, for me, I can't see electric power being practical for anything but .50 sized models and downward in the foreseeable future.
I know it goes against the whole ARF philosophy thing, but knocking out the original firewall and refitting with a firewall that allows more engine room shouldn't be that difficult, nor time consuming, to do.
Yes, I have one of these models NIB. I'm thinking about using my ancient Tartan Twin gas/oil engine in it.
Ed Cregger
I have been flying in 80" aircraft for the past year and I don't have but one set of batteries for each aircraft. I have two glow aircraft and two gas powered aircraft and have not taken one out in the last year. Its just so much easier with electric. And there is so much less to fiddle with.
10-21-2008, 06:43 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
It sounds like you know a ton more about this subject (large electric models) than I. Then again, nearly everyone else does.
What are A123 batteries? Can you direct me to a forum that discusses this particular subject? If it's on hand, that is.
Ed Cregger
What are A123 batteries? Can you direct me to a forum that discusses this particular subject? If it's on hand, that is.
Ed Cregger
10-21-2008, 07:07 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
ORIGINAL: ZebraOne
Tim
If you were responsible for the Eagle, I want to thank you for the enjoyment I have had with 2 (two) Eagles.
I fly at 4000asl and a person learns what his a/c will do, by flying it.
Look at the vibration thread and find my feeling about the thing.
Nice job!
Zee Ama129570
ORIGINAL: krproton
Back when, I did the in-house development on the GP Christen Eagle ARF. It was tested/developed mostly using a Fuji 50. As an asside, I also had to do some engine testing on the Pitts - same airframe and wings as the Eagle. Both planes flew "scale-like" with the Fuji 50's. They flew great, fine, but could definitely use more power to bring them up to "modern" expectations. Take this with a grain of salt if you must (knowing I work for the Company), but both planes were surprisingly easy to fly, did not handle "heavy" in flight, and landed well. And today, a few years removed from both of these projects, I have even more experience with gas engines as I have been flying several GP 27% Extra 330S ARFs with Fuji 43s and DL 50s. I also have a GP 27% Edge with a DL 50 (rocketship!). I know what under powered and over powered planes in this size range fly like. That said, the Eagles and the Pitts' fly well with Fuji 50s, but most people would probably want more power.
Back when, I did the in-house development on the GP Christen Eagle ARF. It was tested/developed mostly using a Fuji 50. As an asside, I also had to do some engine testing on the Pitts - same airframe and wings as the Eagle. Both planes flew "scale-like" with the Fuji 50's. They flew great, fine, but could definitely use more power to bring them up to "modern" expectations. Take this with a grain of salt if you must (knowing I work for the Company), but both planes were surprisingly easy to fly, did not handle "heavy" in flight, and landed well. And today, a few years removed from both of these projects, I have even more experience with gas engines as I have been flying several GP 27% Extra 330S ARFs with Fuji 43s and DL 50s. I also have a GP 27% Edge with a DL 50 (rocketship!). I know what under powered and over powered planes in this size range fly like. That said, the Eagles and the Pitts' fly well with Fuji 50s, but most people would probably want more power.
If you were responsible for the Eagle, I want to thank you for the enjoyment I have had with 2 (two) Eagles.
I fly at 4000asl and a person learns what his a/c will do, by flying it.
Look at the vibration thread and find my feeling about the thing.
Nice job!
Zee Ama129570
I developed the prototypes and wrote the instruction manual, but we usually consult others on the team on design features and flying characteristics. Several pilots usually get a chance at the controls and all of their comments get written in the log book for record keeping.Thanks for your compliments. I haven't found the "vibration thread," but I'll look for it and read.
Tim
10-21-2008, 07:15 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Reading all the comments I do not recall seeing anything about chopping up the box to install these gas engines. All of the engines mentioned would require this. A U.S. 41 engine can be installed but requires an additional 1/4 of ply. So maybe this indicates smaller gassers would fit, but then you are giving up some power. Anybody know of a 40cc gasser that really puts out, that might be the answer to my not altering that very nice mortising work done on that "box" Appreciate all comments guys.
Dick
Dick
10-22-2008, 08:36 AM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
It sounds like you know a ton more about this subject (large electric models) than I. Then again, nearly everyone else does.
What are A123 batteries? Can you direct me to a forum that discusses this particular subject? If it's on hand, that is.
Ed Cregger
It sounds like you know a ton more about this subject (large electric models) than I. Then again, nearly everyone else does.
What are A123 batteries? Can you direct me to a forum that discusses this particular subject? If it's on hand, that is.
Ed Cregger
Here you go Ed....really good information here:
http://www.rcaerobats.net/A123_INFO/...on_battery.htm
10-22-2008, 09:12 AM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
wingbolt the Area 51 is 6.5" I believe and is a very nice motor. A DL50 should work fine. It is 6 3/4" as it is and others have used it on this model at that length. If you wanted it at 6.5" you can get a set of shorter stand offs to replace the ones that come with the motor.
10-22-2008, 09:57 AM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Have made decision, going with DL-50. May use hardware from "PSP" to attain desired length of holdoffs. Not interested in electric, love the noise of turbines, gassers and 4 strokes. I fly from a "full size" grass runway where "hold off, hold off" smooth landings "should" not be difficult.
Again; "YOU CAN NOT OVERPOWER A BIPLANE" (who said that ?) I will not be writing in reference to this topic again, thanks too much for input.
Dick
Again; "YOU CAN NOT OVERPOWER A BIPLANE" (who said that ?) I will not be writing in reference to this topic again, thanks too much for input.
Dick
10-22-2008, 12:44 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
ORIGINAL: arobatx
Here you go Ed....really good information here:
http://www.rcaerobats.net/A123_INFO/...on_battery.htm
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
It sounds like you know a ton more about this subject (large electric models) than I. Then again, nearly everyone else does.
What are A123 batteries? Can you direct me to a forum that discusses this particular subject? If it's on hand, that is.
Ed Cregger
It sounds like you know a ton more about this subject (large electric models) than I. Then again, nearly everyone else does.
What are A123 batteries? Can you direct me to a forum that discusses this particular subject? If it's on hand, that is.
Ed Cregger
Here you go Ed....really good information here:
http://www.rcaerobats.net/A123_INFO/...on_battery.htm
10-22-2008, 06:46 PM
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RE: FUJI 50cc on Christen Bipe ARF (27%)
Just my thought on this subject:: I have an RCguys 1/3 scale Pitts Bipe. AUW is about 15#. I believe you made a good choice.. The DL50 works great in this plane, on high rates, it will really rip. Actually the stock parts with the DL50 should put you in the ballpark for mounting.....Since the ? concerned the Fuji engines ........
