Tired Old Man

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sweetpea01

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Hog-when do I get to fly yours?

I've flown the 85 version already.


I'll bring my AW260 for you to fly.

astrohog

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whenever you get your a up here and fly!!!! When are we gonna "christen" your shop properly??

Astro

Flyfalcons

Hey Jeff, how do you like your 100cc PAU compared with the Wild Hare you had?

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

28 or 35% W/H Ryan? I like the way you're pushing apples to apples but comparing apples and oranges. There have only been 4 W/H 35% Edges, all prototypes, and I know of one unaccounted for at the moment, and I don't believe Jeff (Astrohog) is the one that has it.

So he's comparing a 105" plane to an 84" plane I presume? 50cc against 100cc? Sort of an easy to make comparison. presuming he had a small plane and went large. The 105" would win every time.

The PAU 36% Edge is supposed to be a pretty good plane from what I've read of it. Unfortunately I have not had one at my fingertips. OTOH, I do have a 35% (102") W/H Edge, and it's very nice flying indeed! Better still, it costs less than the other and likely equally well built.

Flyfalcons

Jeff has had both size PAU Edges so I will let him decide which one to compare against which.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

There ya go. I have two sizes of the W/H Edges, and have flown all three sizes. I just can't compare with the 36% PAU since I have not had one.

The PAU should be a good plane since it and the W/H are the same except for size. Same factory ya know. So the decisions between them will be made based on what someone wants to spend, ability to transport, customer service, and what color they like best. One you can fit in an 8' pick up bed without removing the stabs or spinners, the other you can't unless you leave the tailgate down The largest one requires some extra effort to transport if you don't have a trailer.

All three are going to be a blast to fly for sure!!!

tkilwein

I fly at boulder res, close to you and have
Lanier edge 540 94" AUW 21.4lbs with a DA85 on.
AW Katana 36% AUW 28.5lbs with a DA100 on.
Both have no problems going straight up.
Both are easy to fly. Turn the throws up or down to suite your taste.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

There goes the water clarity again

Flyfalcons

Not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying Wild Hare took PAU's design, shrunk it very slightly, and are calling it their own design? I would hope that isn't the case and that Wild Hare is simply using the same factory as PAU to make their own design. Intellectual property and all.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

okay Pat,

Not sure what YOUR agenda really is, but I am really feeling the need to add some clarity to these threads!

I CURRENTLY own and fly a 30% PAU (50cc) Edge and a 36% PAU (DA 100) Edge. I have PREVIOUSLY owned a Wild Hare 28% (?) Edge (50cc).

While the Wild Hare Edge was a decent plane, it was not in the same league with my like-sized PAU Edge. When I crashed my Wild Hare, I immediately replaced it with a PAU Edge. From day one, I felt totally "locked-in" to the PAU plane. Harriers and hovers were a breeze (where I really had to work at them with the WH), knife edge was the same with very minimal coupling. The PAU plane just flew "lighter". I used ALL of the same gear in the PAU plane as I had in the WH. I do not weigh my planes, so I cannot make a real-life weight comparison, but the PAU Edge just flew better.

I do not know where you come off saying that the PAU 36% will not fit in a full-size p/u bed??? I fit my 30% Edge, 36% Edge, AND my 28% G.P. Christen Eagle in my p/u AT THE SAME TIME!!!

I am all for people doing research and listening to others' experiences with "BRAND A", or "BRAND B", but it concerns me when someone from "Brand x" comes on the forums and starts making claims about "BRAND A"'s planes, when they really have no real, first-hand experience with "BRAND A"'s airplanes.

I think it is irresponsible to do that. If you want to come on the forums and make true statements about your preferred brand, more power to ya!! PLEASE do not come on here and make untrue statements about your competitors' brands. If your preferred brand is the best, then there is no reason to compare it to the next and say it is made in the same factory. Let it speak for itself. Just because it is(IF it is) made in the same factory, does NOT assure that it is built to the same specs. Many companies try to cut corners wherever they can, and I am sure the factories are more than willing to oblige. On the other hand, there are companies that will try to target a more discerning customer and will hold their factory to tighter tolerances (at a premium price, I am sure). I cannot say that this is the case in this instance, but just want to point out that in the event these two planes WERE built in the same factory, it still means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! From what little I know of the ARF market, there are MANY manufacturers overseas to choose from and I know for a fact that some companies (probably many) use more than one factory. Again, very dangerous ground to make claims that you cannot VERIFY about other Companies' products.

I bit my lip and did not join in on ya in your "invoice" thread, but now feel the need to at least point it out to people here that it seems your intent is to try to discredit PAU in some kind of (albeit crafty and somewhat cloaked as friendly) way.

Let's all try to keep our posts to the facts and first-hand observances so our little pond can remain unpolluted!!!!!

Regards,

Astrohog

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Astrohog,

No agenda at all. Like some of yours trying to talk about a real good airplane.

Someone stated you had flown a 30% W/H Edge. Since there never has been such an animal I thought that might have been a bit misleading. I agree that the first version of the 28% W/H Edge was heavy and took more work than some would have liked to fly the way they wanted to. I believe PAU, then BME Aircraft, came out with their Edge after the original W/H version. I might be wrong on the timing there so forgive me if that's not so. It's been a few years since those planes first came out. You may not be aware, but about a year ago W/H revised their 28% Edge. Wider, lighter, more balanced, and easier to lock into maneuvers. On a par with the 30% PAU, I couldn't say, but it flies well enough that I like to keep one around for anytime I want to enjoy a fun flight. Many others have had the same experience with the v-2 Edge. Have you flown the W/H v-2 Edge?

Now you are clearly much better at loading a long bed pick up with a shell than I am. I can only "comfortably" get a 28% and 35% Edge in mine, along with the gas can, and feel that I'm not going to be banging one into the other going down the road. That's with the aircraft sitting on the bed and not in some stand or rack. If a plane busts 97"- 98" tip of rudder to tip of spinner it's going to be hard to transport in a full bed p/u with all the tail feathers and spinner on and not be banging into something.

The 35% is a Wild Hare design and was initiated before the thought of a PAU Edge was made public. At least as far as I've seen the situation. If PAU made some release announcement two years ago then I never heard about it. Tom had been working on the plane for quite some time before the end of last year.

Yes, PAU and W/H use the same factory, which is bound to happen between importers because there are not that many manufacturers. As for cutting corners, I'll bet that one might find that manufacturing facilities might cut corners wherever they want to, not where they are told to. I don't believe the dirstributors have much control over that.

It seems that some people pushing the PAU planes are insinuating that W/H stole their design and shrunk it. Not true to my knowledge. I believe that to be sour grapes simply because they don't have a lock on the 35%-36% affordable Edge market. Some of the PAU supporters in the Pacific Northwest don't appear to like competition.

As for Brand X vs Brand A, who did the original comparison of PAU vs W/H by asking one person how they liked the one they had against the one they have? I know you don't have a 35% W/H Edge and that was the first point I wanted to make. So while you're trying to discreditsomeone you need to score a couple for me in this area. The comparison somone on the PAU side made appeared to be with an original 28% W/H vs a PAU 36%. That's not apples and apples at all.

Now, as for comparing flight performance. I can look at the PAU site and build threads just like the next person can, and anyone with any aeronautical knowledge and/or experience can see how they are made up and develop a pretty fair idea how a plane will perform by looking at them. The old adage of "if it looks good it will probably fly good" still applies. I didn't post the PAU weights, they did. I didn't post the dimensions, they did. I didn't advertise the number of servos required for their plane, they did. I know you did theirs with one less servo. That was very good of you, but I did mine with 5 and a throttle servo, not 7 and a throttle servo. $$ Choke servos are optional so I didn't factor for one.

Does the PAU sell for more? Sure it does. It's a little bigger so it should sell for more. OTH, Wild Hare has made it a point not to sell for as much as they could, but instead to keep prices lower than the other guys. No distribution network you see.

Now to wind this crap up.

I never said that the PAU planes would be better or worse than the W/H. Neither did I say that the W/H would be better. Someone in support of PAU implied that. Turning that around to point where it came from, how can someone supporting a PAU product arbitrarily state that the 36% PAU is better when they haven't flown the 35% W/H? I did say that PAU makes good products and has great service and that their new aircraft should be real nice. Somehow that has been overlooked several times so far by those reading only what they want to. There are advantages to both company's products so one should choose according to their needs and fiscal abilities and how each company fills those criteria. Edges from both companies are going to take their respective buyers far in their ability levels. How they fit the wallet and the vehicle will indeed be among a customers decision factors since I don't believe the flight performance between the two will be enough to jaw about.

In closing I'll say once again that both companies are making some real good Edges, and that the flight differences should wind up so minor (in like sizes) as to be inconsequential. The biggest diferences will be in price, required equipment, which effects price further, colors, and a few square inches of wing areas. If you are looking for a big Edge pick the one that best suits your requirements. If you want the largest, go PAU. If 35% is good enough and saves you money, go Wild Hare. If you want a Katana, go Aeroworks or Krill. If you want a Yak or Extra 300, go anywhere. If you want a Python, go QQ. He's the only one with copyright permission on that one.

If you feel you need the last word the chance is before you. Enjoy.

islandflyer

Tired Old Man,

I have stayed out of this discussion this far, but at this point, I have to state a few observations:

1- If looking at a few posted pictures were enough to evaluate a plane, we (in the RC industry) should all save a lot of money, time and effort that we put into designs, design reviews and flight performance assessments, and just confirm our orders from the factories based on the said pictures...
Well, that is not the way we work in my company, and this just may explain why our planes have the success they receive.
In fact, we have just finished testing the sixth version prototype of our next 50cc plane. If it does not look and fly right, we do not produce it, and we re-design it.

2- The 36% design was already well advanced in June 2006 as evidenced by this RCU post showing Max (founder of BME Aircraft, that I later acquired) testing an early prototype:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4416872/anchors_4416872/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#4416872

In order for this plane to be tested in June 2006, the design work had started well before that date. After the PAU transition, we still made improvements prior to production last year.

3- Finally, we have avoided commenting on other companies and their products, and will continue to do so, unless a response is required as a result of either false, misleading or undocumented statements affecting PAU and our products. We simply concentrate on developing the best products possible, and providing the highest level of customer service available. This in itself keeps us busy enough, and we have little inclination or time to spend on commenting about other companies and their products or practices.

The testimonies of appreciation and support we receive daily by emails, and the support we receive from our satisfied customers in the forums is evidence enough that we are on the right track.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Gentlemen.. This thread was started by a consumer asking for suggestions and now is very much off track again. Both sides have had their say. Closed