Tired Old Man

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Might want to check up on that.

Ryan Smith

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Here is a post from Dave Johnson that was made on another site the last time this discussion came up.

Hello
There seems to be some misconceptions about our part manufacturing and sourcing. I'll try to shed a little light for those who are curious.
We use multiple sources on nearly all parts to limit dependency on any one supplier. We focus on U.S. sources, but have sourced parts from around the world. Some have been great, others ended up as scrap when they arrived here. Quality is key, regardless of source location.
It is a competitive business. While some people have an idea where we have had parts made, they are not aware of where all those parts went, how many were used, and for what final purpose. We prefer to leave it that way.
Currently, 19 people in the USA are employed making DA parts and engines. Many others are employed by companies in the USA that make parts for us.
While there seems to be a world wide exodus to China for cheap manufacturing costs and low cost products, we are are not as thrilled about it and it's long term effects as some. While we are happy to be a part of the world market, and believe in a world market, we will continue to make as much of our engine production as possible here at home for a variety of reasons.
No offense or hard feelings to those who partake in the bargin pricing from overseas. Yes, I too have bought my share of low cost overseas goods.

DA component production locations:

Shaft extensions: PhoenixAZ, SeattleWA.
Prop hubs: TucsonAZ, PhoenixAZ, SeattleWA.
Crank shafts: Phoenix AZ, Seattle WA, Taiwan, TucsonAZ,
Rod Pins: PhoenixAZ, Tucson, AZ, Taiwan,SeattleWA, Japan
Connecting rods: TucsonAZ, Taiwan, PhoenixAZ, SeattleWA
Bearings: USA, Germany, Japan, Korea
ā€œCā€ clips: Taiwan, USA, Italy
Pistons: California, PhoenixAZ, Ohio, Italy, Taiwan
Piston rings: Ohio, Taiwan, California, Italy
Cylinders: Ohio, Taiwan, Wisconsin, PhoenixAZ, California
Spark plugs: Japan
Carbs: Japan, Mexico, USA
Ignitions: Brisbane, Australia
Screws: USA
Standoffs and motor mounts: Tucson, AZ, PhoenixAZ, SeattleWA
Crankcases: TucsonAZ, SeattleWA, PhoenixAZ
Mufflers: SeattleWA, Phoenix AZ, N. Carolina
Carb mounts: TucsonAZ, SeattleWA, DetroitMI
Reed valves: TucsonAZ, DetroitMI, Italy
Reed petals: TucsonAZ, California, Italy
Gaskets: TucsonAZ, PhoenixAZ, L.A.California
Design: TucsonAZ
R&D: TucsonAZ
Service: TucsonAZ
Assembly: TucsonAZ
Tech support: TucsonAZ

Dave Johnson
__________________
Desert Aircraft Tech Support
Phone: 520.722.0607
Fax: 520.722.5622
Email: [email protected]

zzw26n

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???

JBanks523

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If you know what you are doing, they are just as easy as any other carb to tune.

Tired Old Man

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And your curiousity relates to exactly what? Cast products aren't done here. All the machined products are. Forged products, like cranks, aren't done here. If the questions pertain to how I know, you'll simply be kept wondering.

Dave gave a lot of information in the quoted poet. Vague in areas, but that's just fine.

Regarding adjusting a Tillotseon. I stand by my previous statement. There's not a carb out there on our model engines that are as sensitive to needle position as a Tillotsen, nor as many where the needles manange to persistenly back away from their set positions. They are good carbs, but the average Walbro user will have a time with them.

exeter_acres

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Ooohhhh secrets... I love secrets.....

Ryan Smith

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Pat,

I don't think you can get more specific than that. Do you want company names too, or something? Jeez...

Tired Old Man

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Ever wonder why only two companies have cylinders that "pink" when they get hot?

NM2K

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So what does the user do to prevent the needles from backing out of their Tillotson carbs, T.O.M.? TIA


Ed Cregger

Tired Old Man

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Not a whole lot they can do. Scratch the threads with an Exacto blade is the best I've ever come up with. Another option might be to use some of the threadlock precoat stuff on clean threads to offer up more resistance to movement. Goes on dry. I sure would not consider using a "wet" threadlock compound on such fine threads.

Bass1

I have a Walbro carb on an old Brison and the high speed needle used to back out on a consisitant basis. I found that the spacing between the low and high needle will accomodate a short split piece of fuel tubing wrapped around the high needle and between the two needles . This so far has alleviated my problem by holding the tubing wrapped high needle firmly in place against the low needle. Probably would work with the tillotson as well depending on the distance/spacing between the two needles.

Kevin Y

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T.O.M., you give the appearence of being in the know on where much of the parts for DA engines are manufactured but honestly from your little teaser about the cylinders and pistons I can see you don't have the whole picture. I work for a company that is on that short list and I can tell you where and who manufactures most of those parts. If you do not believe how much DA actually does here in the states and how much they do themselves you should see the machine shop they have. As a former employee of DA, I am luck enough to have pretty much free reign at DA and I have personally worked with many of the suppliers.

as722

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Why ?

Tired Old Man

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Kevin.

I don't have any issues at all with the how and where DA produces or manufacturers parts. They have a hell of a machine shop in the Seattle area and another that I'm aware of in Tucson. You also don't know how much I work with DA products, which is prolly not a bad thing.

What gets my goat is the number of people that believe a given engine is 100% American made and throw their support, heart an soul, behnd it for only that reason. There are about 5 American engine manufacturers, with each having a given percentage of their components made in an overseas location. Two with probably the highests percentage of parts NOT made in the east are Fox and Taurus. I'm leaving Herbrandson out of this since they are pretty much a specialty engine, and very limited in distribution. Even Taurus and Fox will have some of their components arriving from other areas, but they may be from Europe or Canada instead of China and Taiwan. Just to let you know, it's my opinion that the companies that make their engines predominantly in the U.S. make the best engines we can buy, and that DA is one of them.

None of that is a bad thing because the points of parts manufacturing help keep the cost down to the end consumer. There have been a lot of laws and regulations developed in the U.S. that make the cost of producing some items prohibitive. One of the best cylinder manufacturers out there is a company called Precision Cast in Portland, OR, but the price of their stuff is quite high compared to cylinders made overseas. If you could perform the same task overseas and maintain control of quality and cost you save the customer money, keep products on the market that would have likely faded away due to bottoming sales incurred by rising prices, and keep your employees working.

Nobody bats an eye when buying the "best" servo or the "best" radio, or bothers to consider their point of manufacturer, but they get hung up big time on where their engines come from. I would like very much to see us buying products that were 100% produced here in the U.S. but those days are gone forever. People just need to get a grip on reality. There are almost no 100% American made R/C specific engines. At least none they can buy on an open market.

jooNorway

Some years ago there was a problem with DA50`s... as soom as you started taxiing they stopped...
Today this carburator problem is forgotten, and DA is "the best" for those who have DA

Tired Old Man

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Every new engine design ever made has had a teething problem of one sort or another. The good companies do what's needed to correct them. The bad ones maintain denial. That's just the way it is.

rmh

The Tillotsons on larger ZDZ engines -the 160's run fine
the ones they selected for the Super 80 were not so desireable
I ran the prototype Supr 80's and after a little test bench running - grabed a carb intended for the DA100- - power went up - the slightly larger bore was well matched to the Super 80
This carb is now ( Ithink) std on new Super 80s
The other problem was those overly long needles had a harmonic buzz at around 3000. chop the needles down as short as practical and re slot them
There ar no secrets on any of these engines
and frankly the worst part of any of em -from a quality standpoint -is the friggen carb
I bought various carbs of different tpes and from different mfgrs for various engine.

The Bings -worked the Tillotsons worked the Walbros worked but ALL OF EM had an occasional bad apple.

Anybody with an extensive background in carbs will tell you the same thing.
Shoot- ask Dave at DA- His are sorted out very well but still some run differntly than others

frieshoo

My Feedback: (20)

Dick,

You hit the nail on the head about length of the Tillotson needles. My 3W80xi was solid out of the box... good power, good mid, and good idle...

After more flying, it seemed the engine would not hold a needle setting on the low end... At first I thought it was the weather, different altitudes.. etc.. I tried several things, and finally a fellow flyer suggested the needles could be moving...

I set the low end, and marked the needle in relation to the carb body... It took some time, but the needle did indeed move... about 1/16 of a turn.... and this was pretty significant on this particular carb...

My buddy 'trimmed' the needles, and re-solt them...

It's been a solid carb ever since.

Dennis

2Brave

My Feedback: (28)

My intention was not to boost any engine nor run any engine down. Now that I've gotten the DLE back with the walbro carb. it runs perfect at this time. I don't care who you are or what you may think you know about oils because I've tried many of them and I've never had any major problems with them as long as they are not used for longer than recommended, but I'm sure I'll get a die hard oil expert to tell me their version. Please save your breath and my time. The engine was fine but the carb was just a bad carb as not everything is a 100% all the time. Yes, it was not the most wise decision to fly the bird but it was running well at the time and the transitions were smooth with a good holding top and bottom rpm so I figured that I'd get it in the air to check on other suspisions..... bla bla bla.

2Brave

My Feedback: (28)

At the risk of sounding arrogant I hope I didn't put off the wrong vibe with this thread. I wasn't asking for any assistance or help, just stating a concern about a problem presented by a defective product. But, thanks to all the great advise that's out there. This hobby really has tons of ever changing products and a varied multitude of views. However, now I do have a question in this next post.
I have several engines, 110-170cc, that concern me with the movement of needles. On two of them, 3w competition series, I have Tillotson's and the others are walbro's. Havn't had any prob's with the Walbro's, but on the 3W's they are still very new and I just keep and eye on em and do minor adjustments as necessary. More good days of flying will tell me more. Here's the question. In order to keep the needles from moving, what would be wrong with using two, say 1/4x1/4x1.5" bars of alum. tapped with two allen screws, to sandwich the needles by tightening the screws so that the needles can't move? Or just stay with the, plumbers paste, or blue threadlock. Never tried plumbers paste because it never really cures as fast and it's very messy.

karolh

TOM gave a couple suggestions earlier on in this thread on how to stop them from moving, and one thing he advised NOT to use was a wet type thread locker.

Karol

ec121

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During one of the eternal "Where is it made/ which is best" discussions a couple of years ago, someone from DA listed the sources of all the components of their engines here on one of the forums . 90%+ of the parts were made/cast outside the US and assembled or machined in the local plant.

Antique

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Wonder what else he does with about $1,000,000 or more worth of CNC machines ?? IN TUCSON AZ USA....

mifsudm

Dear all,

i would like to know if any body has a DLE-111 with a three blade propeller. if so what is the approx rpm?? i am running mine with a Biela 24X10 three blade prop and have an rpm of 5400. i think it is way to low so i am asking help from any body who has a similar setup.

regards

Martin.

MetallicaJunkie

seems ok....i dont have a 111, but i do have expereience with biela props... they load more than any prop i know of... they are beefy props... is noise an issue?