GP Lancair engine choice??
10-19-2003, 05:48 PM
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GP Lancair engine choice??
I'm planning on getting a Great Planes Lancair ES 60 shortly, and I'm having a tough time deciding on an engine. Right now I'm looking at a Saito 100, an O.S. .91, and a Y.S. .91 . They all seem to be very good engines, but what I would like to know is how do they compare as far as power to weight? Ease of tuning? Reliability? It seems I can't go wrong with any of them, but I would like hear some personal experiences. Thanks in advance.
10-20-2003, 11:42 AM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Saito .91 or 1.00 would be my first pick. I've got a Saito .91 in mine and it pulls the plane just fine. The 1.00 would definately be impressive. The O.S. .91 would be my second pick. I've got a 1.20 and it runs great. As far as Y.S., I wouldn't have one, even if someone was giving it to me.
John
John
10-20-2003, 12:29 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Saito- Never had a bad one and I've never seen a bad one.
O.S -Never had a bad one and I've seen very few bad ones.
Y.S. - Never seen a good one, except for one .45 two stroke. Since I've only seen one good one, out of the many I've seen run, or attempt to run, I guess that's why I bad mouth them. And, I guess that's why I'd never have one. I think the same thing about K&B, they're crap. For instance, a fellow flyer just got his Y.S. 1.20 back from an overhaul. It was pre-set right from Y.S., and when he ran it for the first time yesterday, damn thing would hardly run at all. Bad mouth Y.S., you bet. Until they start making more reliable, user friendly engines, I'll carry this attitude about them until the day I croak. Plus, they're too expensive. You simply don't get what you pay for. It's about like buying a Hummer H2. It's simply a status symbol.
John
O.S -Never had a bad one and I've seen very few bad ones.
Y.S. - Never seen a good one, except for one .45 two stroke. Since I've only seen one good one, out of the many I've seen run, or attempt to run, I guess that's why I bad mouth them. And, I guess that's why I'd never have one. I think the same thing about K&B, they're crap. For instance, a fellow flyer just got his Y.S. 1.20 back from an overhaul. It was pre-set right from Y.S., and when he ran it for the first time yesterday, damn thing would hardly run at all. Bad mouth Y.S., you bet. Until they start making more reliable, user friendly engines, I'll carry this attitude about them until the day I croak. Plus, they're too expensive. You simply don't get what you pay for. It's about like buying a Hummer H2. It's simply a status symbol.
John
10-20-2003, 01:13 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Status symbol?? Give me a break.
That's like saying an OS is a status symbol to a guy with a TT Pro.
Please continue to relate your tales of woe, it provides endless enjoyment to those of us who sucessfully use these engines all the time. Snicker snicker.
That's like saying an OS is a status symbol to a guy with a TT Pro.
Please continue to relate your tales of woe, it provides endless enjoyment to those of us who sucessfully use these engines all the time. Snicker snicker.
10-20-2003, 02:15 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
The status symbol remark is simply an opinion of mine. I'm glad you've had good luck with Y.S., and I hope you have many more countless hours of flying with your engine, or engines. I am only stating the facts that I've seen at my airfield and countless others, but not all. All of the people that I know personally who own, or have owned, Y.S. engines stated that they should have bought another brand. And from the way I've seen them run, and how their owners are always having to change regulator/high end/low end settings, I can't blame them for making those kinds of remarks. "Most" four strokes only have to be fueled, cranked, and flown. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A Y.S. THAT HAS NEVER NEEDED ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE BEING FLOWN. Those Y.S. owners that I've talked to at other clubs, whom I don't know from Adam, have made similar remarks, "They're hell to get running right but when they are running right the power can't be matched". I agree 100%. I am not that desperate for power! Yes, Y.S. is the most powerful engine of the four bangers, but they are in a class of their own since they have added that supercharger. Why haven't the "majority" of other brands added superchargers? Because they're impractical, and cause way to may problems. Out of all the Y.S. owners I've talked to, at least 75% of them have said that they're a ***** to get running right. I just can't see why people want to go out and pay for a headache.
Chuck, what triggered you to try Y.S. ? And, have all of your Y.S. engines run perfectly without having to constantly tune them?
I'm definately not trying to make enemies here, I'm simply trying to understand why people want to pay so much more money for an engine that obviously needs constant attention, rather than buying a much more user-friendly, dependable engine. I'm not even bragging on any particular brand.
Chuck, what triggered you to try Y.S. ? And, have all of your Y.S. engines run perfectly without having to constantly tune them?
I'm definately not trying to make enemies here, I'm simply trying to understand why people want to pay so much more money for an engine that obviously needs constant attention, rather than buying a much more user-friendly, dependable engine. I'm not even bragging on any particular brand.
10-20-2003, 03:21 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
I started using YS engines because I had no experience with 4 strokes, and the one guy that had consistant good luck ran YS engines. The guy running a Saito never could make his run (150). So I got YS engines.
Saitos were the dogs as far as I could tell.
I don't have to constantly adjust anything, I do like to richen up the high end and re-tweak it when I start, but I do that with all my 2 strokes as well. Never re-adjust anything.
I went from here to Houston, 3250 ft to basically sea level..never touched anything but the high speed needle, that engine had 2 tanks through it before I left here. Went to Nashville with another new YS, had 3 tanks through it. Never adjusted a thing.
I've been through all of this with you before, I could go on about how I saw a Saito that wouldn't run and bash them, but I know that would be unfair to the Saito line of engines.
It boggles my mind how you apparently live in a great void of YS performance. My bet is there is at least one "expert" on hand that tells everybody that 10% nitro and castor oil will run them fine, get some K&B 1L plugs, 'cause that's what his Saito uses or something, and everybody buys it. Teaching old dogs new tricks or something.
I started out knowing nothing, bought the recommended fuel, prop, plug, filters, tanks, etc. and have had zero problems. Zero. I concede a buddy had one with a cracked gasket that gave us some problems, but hardly enough to condemn the entire line.
As for the money, spend yours as you see fit, I'll spend mine as I see fit. I'll just say that my experiences, and those of many others, don't reflect the experiences of those you have seen. If I had had an original YS exposure similar to what you describe, I'm sure I would hve never bought any. Luckily, I was introduced to the line by a fellow who understood how to both read and heed the instructions and tune engines.
Saitos were the dogs as far as I could tell.
I don't have to constantly adjust anything, I do like to richen up the high end and re-tweak it when I start, but I do that with all my 2 strokes as well. Never re-adjust anything.
I went from here to Houston, 3250 ft to basically sea level..never touched anything but the high speed needle, that engine had 2 tanks through it before I left here. Went to Nashville with another new YS, had 3 tanks through it. Never adjusted a thing.
I've been through all of this with you before, I could go on about how I saw a Saito that wouldn't run and bash them, but I know that would be unfair to the Saito line of engines.
It boggles my mind how you apparently live in a great void of YS performance. My bet is there is at least one "expert" on hand that tells everybody that 10% nitro and castor oil will run them fine, get some K&B 1L plugs, 'cause that's what his Saito uses or something, and everybody buys it. Teaching old dogs new tricks or something.
I started out knowing nothing, bought the recommended fuel, prop, plug, filters, tanks, etc. and have had zero problems. Zero. I concede a buddy had one with a cracked gasket that gave us some problems, but hardly enough to condemn the entire line.
As for the money, spend yours as you see fit, I'll spend mine as I see fit. I'll just say that my experiences, and those of many others, don't reflect the experiences of those you have seen. If I had had an original YS exposure similar to what you describe, I'm sure I would hve never bought any. Luckily, I was introduced to the line by a fellow who understood how to both read and heed the instructions and tune engines.
10-20-2003, 07:19 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
I apologize for the thread hijack, newbie76. That wasn't what you were looking for. I think the Saito 100 would be the hot ticket, A buddy just got one for his U-Can-Do and it is small and light. Just what a plane like the Lancair needs.
10-21-2003, 01:51 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
As far as power goes, The ys will beat OS or saito. THe people who have had problems with YS probably dont know how to set them up properly. THe bottom line that you wont go wrong with OS , Saito, or YS. THe OS is the less finicky of the bunch, The saito and the YS is alot more picky when it comes to fuel, but the OS will run fine off of 10% 2 stroke. Hope this helps.
10-21-2003, 07:36 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Okay everyone, time for a little different scenario. I currently have a World Models 40 sized Cap 232, with an Evolution 46. It is a great ship, very reliable, stable, almost everything a guy could want. This week it was going to get a new Saito 72. Now I have been presented an enticing offer. I can sell my plane, minus servos and battery, to a guy at work. There is a model identical to mine on consignment at my LHS. It is in good shape, shows even less hangar rash than my plane. It is minus electronics, but it has a big plus. A pumped YS 91 four stroke. I know, it seems silly to have that much engine on a 40 sized plane. The reason I am contemplating it is the incredible price at which I can purchase the setup. It would only be an additional $50 out of my pocket. Slap my radio gear in it and go to town!! Any comments?.............
10-25-2003, 03:56 AM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Newbie:
But he didn't answer your question. Jump on the deal for the YS 91 combo, provided you have assurrance that the engine is running well.
If it is not running well, and there's no one around who really is comfortable with the YS line, you could have much frustration from it. And if there is anything wrong with it you could quickly spend two or three week's allowance getting it right. Please get the instruction sheets for the engine.
Bill.
But he didn't answer your question. Jump on the deal for the YS 91 combo, provided you have assurrance that the engine is running well.
If it is not running well, and there's no one around who really is comfortable with the YS line, you could have much frustration from it. And if there is anything wrong with it you could quickly spend two or three week's allowance getting it right. Please get the instruction sheets for the engine.
Bill.
10-25-2003, 09:51 AM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
The YS I'm looking at seems to be low on compression. You can definitely feel the compression stroke, but it seems weak, even compared to my Evolution 46. Does this sound like trouble?
10-25-2003, 02:11 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Newbie:
In that case it is a big gamble. As I said, if you need parts for a YS you can blow your lunch money in a heartbeat.
It could be so simple as not having been run for a while, and the ring is dry. It could also be worn out.
Put some thin oil in the intake and roll it through a couple times, If the compression comes up well turn it slowly and see how it feels. Turning it slowly you should feel the compression leaking past the ring, this is normal. Also put your ear next to the exhaust and listen, you should hear a distinct pop as the valve opens when turning the engine briskly, And the same at the intake with the throttle open. If the engine passes these tests it's probably OK. Excuse me, on a YS you can't hear the intake unless you pull the air chamber off.
A strange characteristic of a 4c enbgine you may be running into also - none seem to have good compression if flipped with the throttle shut, so be sure it's open as you check the engine.
HTH.
Bill.
In that case it is a big gamble. As I said, if you need parts for a YS you can blow your lunch money in a heartbeat.
It could be so simple as not having been run for a while, and the ring is dry. It could also be worn out.
Put some thin oil in the intake and roll it through a couple times, If the compression comes up well turn it slowly and see how it feels. Turning it slowly you should feel the compression leaking past the ring, this is normal. Also put your ear next to the exhaust and listen, you should hear a distinct pop as the valve opens when turning the engine briskly, And the same at the intake with the throttle open. If the engine passes these tests it's probably OK. Excuse me, on a YS you can't hear the intake unless you pull the air chamber off.
A strange characteristic of a 4c enbgine you may be running into also - none seem to have good compression if flipped with the throttle shut, so be sure it's open as you check the engine.
HTH.
Bill.
10-25-2003, 02:13 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Newbie:
Addendum to last post - put the oil in the exhaust and turn the engine backwards to get it in the cylinder, or pull the plug and put it directly in the cylinder, roll the engine a few tirns before putting the plug back in.
Bill.
Addendum to last post - put the oil in the exhaust and turn the engine backwards to get it in the cylinder, or pull the plug and put it directly in the cylinder, roll the engine a few tirns before putting the plug back in.
Bill.
10-25-2003, 05:27 PM
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RE: GP Lancair engine choice??
Well guys, I took the plunge and bought the YS. Does anyone know where I could find an owner's manual? It is a YS F91AC. I pulled the plug, put some after-run oil in the cyl, turned it a few times, then put the plug back in. I then fueled it up, heated up the glow, and hit it with my starter. After about 1/2 second of cranking, it sprang to life! It idled extremely well w/o the glow heater, and after I let it warm up for about 20 seconds, I jerked the throttle wide open. It didn't hesitate, hiccup, or sputter!! I am in love!! Now all that is left to do is put together my new Lancair. I'll keep everyone posted on the flight report.
