repomann76

well i just finished putting together what i believe THE most aggravating plane i have ever put together which was a great planes matt chapman cap 580.the instructions suck they give you a close proximity pic of the build.not to mention it tells you to do one thing then 3 pages later if you look at the pic.it will be totally opposite.i bought this plane thinking "easy" HAH! what a joke even if you dont glue your fingers to the fuse good luck on lining up all the horiz and vert pieces...then the best part came,FLYING IT!! i went outside did a control check give it a little throttle gently tossed it in the air and it was great it flew wonderfully minus the touch controls but im used to that i flew it around a little bit getting it trimmed out then i decided to bring it down for a check.<mistake> as soon as it touched down on the road it nose dived and broke the prop.ripped the wheel pants off it and the landing gear CF rod ripped the leading edge of the wing like a wet paper bag.but anyhow i just thought i would post my experiences on here about the flatout plane.i had read some posts on here about them and there was mixed emotions so i figured well ill give it a try i cant be too bad.well i was wrong and now im off to try to figure out how to repair the LE of the wing where the can opener got it lol oh well all that glue and activator and gluing fingers are almost already down the drain.........................................

Bevo

Sorry, you didn't like your flatout. I love mine. Yes, the instructions were bad but I figured them out. I have a Turmoil with a Custom CDR brushless motor kit on it and it's by favorite airplane. It does all the neat tricks. If you ever decide to give a flatout another chance I'd look at the Turmoil, the Red Bull Edge, or the Flatana. I think they are better built then the Cap 580 and the Extra. I'd also leave the landing gear off.


Brvo

repomann76

lol yea i have learned the landing gear is badddddddd the only way i coulds see them working well is having some other reinforcements going back towards the tail somehow but oh well...

ChopperMike

That they do!

I have had several, my latest a Turmoil. It was scrapped after a few outings when I realized it was beyond hope. It flew like a pig, mainly because of how much it weighed (there's no way you'll ever get one to weigh what GP says they do) and the FO hinging system is a joke. I'm getting a new plane soon (Extra 300), a club member makes them. I flew one this weekend and it flies like a dream, it'll do anything I want it to. As far as the FO's, save your money.


Mike

stockdaddy

Somebody a while back called the flatouts a potato chip with wings.

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Airfoil Z or Copperhead, why fly a potato chip when you can fly a good Foamy with a real Airfoil. Both the Copperhead Stiffy, & the Airfoil Z Yak & Edge are capable of flying in 20+mph winds. Watch their videos. Try that with a potato chip![&:]

Brian G.

Just wanted to pile on a little more. I am looking at a Turmoil sitting on the table next to me. It is complete, waiting on a rx crystal to arrive so I can finish the radio install and maiden it. I have built a variety of planes, even spads and I have never enjoyed building an airplane less!!!! The instructions are a joke. Whoever wrote them does not know their left from thier right. If this were my first plane, I probably would have quit the hobby before I ever got airborne. I have serious doubts about how this thing is going to hold up. Hopefully it will be a good flier and take some of this bad taste out of my mouth. Time will tell. I will post a flight report when my crystal gets here.

Good Flying

Brian

Chris-_-Memphis

My Feedback: (3)

i agree flatouts suck..better models out there

repomann76

[quote]ORIGINAL: Brian G.

I have serious doubts about how this thing is going to hold up.



hey if you dont want the wings torn up TAKE THE LANDING GEAR OFF!!! my wings are ripped on the leading edges about 3 inches

spark6

i've had two... and i have given up! i fixed both no less than 3 times each, and have reached the conclusion that if you are going to build a plane then they should at least be able to fly with out torquing so much they fall from the sky! you shoulda seen my extra! i built the thing straight as an arrow with epoxy so it would be strong, a nd i took off and the stupid thing was all twisted after about 30 secs in the air! god!

repomann76

lol i am so pleased to an extent that i was not the only one to have these problems.i almost started doubting my building skills.either way i would much rather buy one of those styrofoam gliders from walmart and try building one out of those lol.but either way i did gain something and well lost something too and those are..gained-brushless outrunner,lipo battery pack,18 amp battery pack,li po charger.....Lost-time building plane,money for batt pack,esc,motor,charger,and most of all my sanity.........

aflipz

My Feedback: (10)

I'm sick of this flat planes fad, it's a darned shame if you ask me... Sure they are great if you fly exclusively pure 3d indoors. But many new pilots are getting these for unknown reasons, maybe they think they are cheaper, easyer to build, not as fragile, who knows... Anyway they end up being used as parkflyers and frustrating people, as we see in this thread. When it comes down to it the price of slapping together an arf of this nature is not much different than that of a quality foamy like the copperhead model mentionned in an earlyer post, for example it's a good one there are a few others, but the really good ones are rare, why? Because people are gladly forking over the dough for these cheap to produce pieces of junk, so the manufacturers say to themselves "why bother to make anything REALLY good? if they'll buy this cheap stuff at full price anyways right?

Hope there are enough people like me to bring back plane designs such as the discontinued great planes german built simprop models not to mention czecoslovakia's scorpio models who closed their shop. Sad...

repomann76

flipz i couldn't have said it better i feel the same way

Waldopepperaxel

Well I'm a little late in this thread but I have to agree the 580 Flatout was the most ridiculous thing I've ever built, I have been a kit builder for over 35 years now, and this flatout made me almost lay the plane flatout.

I fly the glow engine planes and I really enjoy the building part of the hobby, but a bunch of friends have been buying these foamy things and showing up at the field and tossing them into the air and they do fly pretty good, but the Flatout 580 has been in the air twice and both landings have ripped the wing because of the landing gear, fortunatlely not too bad, but a pain in the butt none the less, Also the motor that comes with the plane burned out on the first flight, so I bought another, that burned out on its first flight, so I just bought a 22m-1000 rimfire for her, if this fails I'll be looking for a new electric model, seeing I now have about $250.00 involved. any good suggestions would be appreciated for the 22m-1000. and the landing gear is a must to be cut off, unless your flying in the gym or something.

aflipz

My Feedback: (10)

22m-1000 draws 12amps wot static from a 3 cell lipo on an apc 9x3.8 slowflyer prop. it hovers a 15oz plane with ease. For pure 3d you'll probably want to stay under 12oz. The flatout should be much lighter than that, wich would mean you'll want to use a small, light pack and a smaller diameter prop, maybe an 8x4 slowflyer.

That motor is actually pretty versatile, what kind of esc and pack (make, cell count and mah rating please) are you using? that kinda dictates what you can use it in. By altering prop diameter and pitch you can select a variety of different props for applications ranging from 7oz to 17oz depending on flying style (forget 3d at 17oz)

FlyingGreg

My Feedback: (4)

I had a Flatana. Flew OK but was very fragile. Try the Hobbly Lobby YAK. Last i looked it was only $19.95--for a while it was $14.95. Still a lot to pay for some cheap foam, but it went together much easier that the FO, flew just as well, and lasted a long time. I used the same power system I bought for the FO--Rimfire brushless, Castle speed control, and 640 LiPo. I'm now flying slightley larger foamy that was cut by a club member--doesn't really look like anything but flies great. Larger motor, battery.

Greg

Waldopepperaxel

I really have no Idea what I have ,, LOL,, This Electric thing is all new to me, I'll have to look at what I actually bought when I get home, I have a 3 cell Bat for sure, I believe its 700 Lipo & I think its 1300 Something MAH ?? ,, and I was trying to buy the B8 ESC and ended up buying a 10.

Like I said, all this stuff makes my head spin,, give me a Glow engine anyday, I can do wonders with that and actually know what I'm talking about. But I will learn the electric as I go, after all,, if it flies,, I'm interested in it.

I know a friend of mine who will cut me a foamie out for about $5.00 So I might have him do that, now that I have all the rest of the accesories. His flies great, which was what got me to buy the FO when I saw one. I guess I just need to have a toy of every kind. the YAK woulkd be a good plane to try as well for only $19.00 and some change,, thanks for the info, I'll post my results. I'm sure I'll have questions..

flyingace451

This statement should be the new constitutional amendment. I agree with this statment 150%, with copperhead or airfoilz, you basically get the same plane. Which is an amazingly durable, stiff, high performance plane that can and will do anything and everything that you can possibly imagine plus some. I've heard people say the AirfoilZ Yak flies just as well as any gas 3Der, they were right.
I agree with this about 95%. I thought they flew better...but not much better. If you are looking for a very cheap yet slightly durable foamy, get this Yak. It's made of 2, 3mm depron sheets sandwiched together with a layer of plastic between them. Fairly stiff, easy to build (even if you screw up like I did and get the horizontal stab off center) and flies ok. Flies like your typical flat plate foamy. The tail area will most likely break on every tail touching crash, but with CA and packing tape it repairs faster than an FA too.

I'd still prefer the AirfoilZ over the HL Yak, but if you want to spend 20 bucks, you get what you paid for.

aflipz

My Feedback: (10)

Waldopepperaxel, you probably hesitated between a 700mah and a 1300mah... is it a 2 cell or 3 cell? that also makes a huge difference... (11.1V nominal versus 7.4V)

the esc; if it's a castle creations you are good for the 12amps wot on 3 cells because it takes bursts of 15 with ease, and your loads won't stay at 12A for very long periods of time as airspeed increases.

If you got a 3 cell 700mah it might or might not work, packs have c ratings. If your pack is good for 15C you're allright (15c means you can discharge @ 15x the capacity rating of the pack. in other words if it has a 0.7A storage capacity you get 0.7Ax15c=10.5Ams continuous discharge rating. If it's a 10c lipo at 700mah you only get 7A continuous, a bit weak though they usually have margin for bursts... 10c 1300 would be fine but much too heavy for a flatout :/ So, basically if you run a 700mah 10c pack i suggest you prop no higher than an 8x4 and go easy on the throttle.

packs have 2 ratings, continuous and bursts. some go up to 20c continuous and 30c bursts. Doesn't your brand new pack have a lable with this information?

lcbabj

My Feedback: (7)

I built the Flatout Flatana. Not much trouble building or flying. Just had to land it too fast. Had to keep about 4 clicks on the throttle to keep it stable on final. No complaints with building but just not that fun to fly. I too am tired of the "flat" fad. I set it in the driveway and my wife accidently ran over it with the car. Now it's really flat. Only plane I ever lost where it did not bother me. Took out the radio gear and motor and built a Great Planes mini super sportster. These flat foamies can be fun to fly, but my biggest complaint, like others, is the landing gear is always inadequate, and biggest of all, you can't look at these things without something breaking. 90% of my damage was do to me being clumbsy, but I never liked the fact that you cant breathe on them without something breaking. I am done with them. Two years flying the Flatana, Eflight Tribute, and P51 Mustang. It was fun, but I am done with them.

Waldopepperaxel

Aflipz, Thanks, That is the kind of info that makes sense for sure, now when I look at the labels on the Bat I might know what they actually represent, It is a brand new 3 cell lipo I have, but the lable printer must have been running dry, because its kind of tough to see, but I can make it out, Both of those numbers are on there, 700 & 1300? I'll have to look at it again now and see where the MAH belonged. I'm going to maiden the new motor tonight around 4 after I get out of work. I am on my Vacation as of 3:30 tonight

Waldopepperaxel

All I can say is,,, FLATOUTS SUCK,, Came home from work tossed the ol Matt chapman 580 up into the air & the aileron stuck to the right about 1 minute into the flight so I had to shut the GREAT Working Brushless motor down, and watch her spiral in,, that makes 3 flights, 3 repairs, I might just cut out the foam design on balsa and make a flat out balsa plane, the plane seemed to fly great but that thin foam crap can't handle anything, I wasn't even pushing it. hey,, its about what I expected for $20.00 I'm going to look into the other models you guys were talking about.

I have a BP 10amp ESC, 1320 MAH Bat, with a 20C Burst, and it looks like 13Ccont ???
11.1 V. 17A/27A running the 22m-1000 Brushless, the motor ran awesome and still does.

aflipz

My Feedback: (10)

Yeah waldo, sorry to hear about your flaout.

As for you lipo, that's great. that means it's a thunder power 1320 pro lite 11.1v with ballancer connector and those c ratings/amp ratings you quoted are right on. That is pretty much the most versatile pack you can get when it comes to parkflyers. You can fly anything from a small foamy to a mini funtana or similar sized plane. 17A cont and 27A burst is incredible for an 85 gram pack!

Consider an airfoilz yak, your setup might be a little on the weak side though, even with a 9x3.8 but it would still be a lot of fun to fly as an aerobat. Might even be able to climb out of a hover, just not very fast. Nothing stops you from getting a larger motor/esc later if you feel the need for more power.

jpjamie

I purchased a Turmoil on Friday and it is now Sunday.
It did not take me 2-3 hours to build.
I got the thing because I didn't want to spend time cutting out Depron...now I think cutting Depron is actually the better way to go. I also think I need to go walk on a beach somewhere....I am a experienced builder and now question my abilities. I agree with others that the instructions were poorly written. The basic engineering concept of the snap on hinges is good, but idealistic, barely practical and takes patience and agility of a watchmaker to install. When you are ready to "snap on" the ailerons you might also "snap off" something...I did! IF you get the ailerons on, you will then notice that the control horns per instructions mechanically conflict with a pair of wing struts! The whole feel of the aircraft is "brittle...brittle...brittle." This brittleness is worse in my opinion, if you use only "foam safe" CA. I used epoxy in many joints, of course the argument is it adds weight but maybe a wee bit more weight will hold the thing together instead of have it fall apart. I am not going to use their control horn idea and plan to use off the hobby shop shelf wire pushrods and nylon control horns.

repomann76

hey! i found out the best use for the flatouts!! i had some trash burning in my back yard the other day and i chinked in there and boy that thing throws off some smoke lmao got tired of looking at it broken down so it is GONE FOREVER!!!!! my LHS is now selling these planes for $29.99 just to move them out so if that tells you something......................................... ................