WilsonFlyer

My Feedback: (13)

You know, with all of the information here in this place (don't get me wrong here because I am most grateful for all of the information I have found here), I am AMAZED that something as important and as complicated as setting up a computer radio CORRECTLY for these big-birds seems to be basically ignored here and dismissed as, "Oh, set your radio up for exponentials." HUH??? (sigh)

Maybe I missed other threads. I'm sure I've tried to look around to find them but to no avail. :-(

Looks to me like somebody here could be a hero by doing a step-by-step "How-To" on how to set up a computer radio correctly for the Sukhoi (or any other big-bird for that matter).

I'm a computer network systems engineer by-trade and have been for 20+ years but the nomenclature and abstractness used in the Futaba 9z's and 9CxP's just blows me away. I don't get it and I need some help! :-(

I've got this bird all ready to fly except programming the radio correctly and OPTIMALLY. I confess I have a NEW 9ZAP and haven't gone into a lot of digging in the HUGE manual yet but the functionality needed on these big planes far outdoes anything I ever needed on my smaller stuff. Looks like most of the stuff in the manual doesn't mean anything to me anyway because it never really applied to small glow stuff. Other radios on my other small planes have just always been basically, "All she's got!." type of arrangements. That ain't gonna get it here! :-( I ain't about to put this big and EXPENSIVE bird in the air holding a $1000 radio in my hand that's half-*****ed programmed like it ought to be and functioning with all the capabilities of a 4-channel trainer radio!

Do we need spoilerons? What channels do the ailerons need to be plugged into? Y cable? That's what I've "always" used. I can't get spolierons with Y cables, can I? :-( How do the spoilerons "know" to kick-in when I goto 75% on the elevator and only when a certain switch is in the 3-D mode??? What switch?!? What makes that switch "3-D Mode"? See what I mean and that's only the tip of the iceberg. I ain't even gonna touch exponentials and mixing. I'm hoping somebody will be geneorous enough to bite this hook and WILL address this though; ALL of it.

Now before it even comes up, I know about the JR v. Futaba pi$$in' contest that can come from one of these threads so could we PLEASE (in the interest of helping others like me out) refrain from that before it even gets started. If you want a JR thread like this (and some of you probably SHOULD!), please start one. I think we need a lot more of these anyway!

I also understand that setting switches up for certain functions in a particular radio is largely a matter of personal taste. Bearing that in mind; we should be able to at least get some sort of fundamental start/base going for setting up these radios with this plane. There HAVE to be a lot of us running these planes now that don't have their radios setup optimally.

Anybody willing to entertain taking this ball and running with it or is this yet another of these things (at least at the fields I fly at) where people that fly or can afford to fly big-birds are penalized for by the masses and everybody has the "Go learn the hard way like I did." attitude about? :-(

There seems to be so much resentment at my local fields once you start flyin' gas that people think it's their job to assume you "must" know what you're doing or you "wouldn't be spending so much money on it". I know that's another subject. Please forgive my rant...

This just seems to be just as important as getting one's CG right before flying. Why is it not considered important enough to talk about in detail and why don't we do it? :-(

Does anybody know if there's a 3rd-party book about the 9Z or 9C like somebody did about the 8x (I think that was the one.) Futaba? I can't believe someone hasn't written a book about how to program modern computer radios for optimum flying with all planes. Maybe if this thread can get me started, I will! :-)

Thanks in advance guys! :-)

Flyfalcons

I can go through the programming of my comp-ARF Extra later today. It will take some time but it might be of use. I have a 9CAP, and programming the 9C is significantly different from programming the 9Z.

WilsonFlyer

My Feedback: (13)

THANK YOU Ryan. I know it's gonna be a PITA and I suspect that's why noone's ever done it before (apparently) but I really think you'd be an unsung (maybe) hero to a LOT of us if you'd consider doing it. Maybe someone else with a 9Z (the 9CHP with a Hitec synthesizer is my backup radio) will find it in their heart to do the same thing.

I'm pretty sure the model of aircraft doesn't matter as much here as the GP involved in setting everything up: mixes, exponentials, etc..

Thank you in advance for your generosity. I'm a DA when it comes to the 9C and 9Z so keep that in mind. I suspect I'm not alone if we were all being honest here. I think this will help a LOT of people.

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

LM

Have you looked at the Futaba website, regarding programming your 9Z?

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/faq-9z.html

I'd be willing to help you out, first take the time to absorb the info offered by Futaba and get back to me... Once you familiarize yourself with the programming ladder it becomes second nature...

Spoilerons on the H9 Sukhoi don't offer much, IMO.

Aileron is channel #1 and channel #6 with FLAPERON mode and channel #1 & #7 with DIFFERENTIAL mode. You don't want to use wyes.

3D rates are typically programmed with a specific CONDITION, you choose the switch that suits your needs. Essentially you toggle a single switch and the model takes on a new life. High rates or whatever on all surfaces, various rates and expotential settings are available within the 3D condition, 3D specific mixes and lots more...

Gotta_Fly

My Feedback: (2)

Hey Learning Man

You took the words right out of my mouth, I have been having the same issue with my 9C and my H9 Sukhoi, There are so many small questions that I would love to know the answer to, well its not really questions its more how would you approach this kind of things, So like you were saying is there anyone willing to have a weekend 9C/9Z siminar it would be worth every penny to me.....

Thanks fellows

Randy

WilsonFlyer

My Feedback: (13)

mglavin:

With all due respect; thanks for joining the ranks of the very people I was talking about. If you want to tell people to RTFM, which is in essence exactly what you did; I'd just as soon you go do it in someone else's thread but thanks for the after-thought that you'd be willing to help once I had "pulled my time." (sigh)

EDIT: I just noticed you were a moderator in this forum. I'm knew here and didn't know. I don't post this to make any apologies or edits to what I said before but I did want you to know that I did see that after the fact.

Ironically; I've heard other experts tell me that I DO need spoilerons on the Sukhoi so that it will more effectively do "The Wall" on 3D rates when the elevator exceeds ~75%. Those are EXACTLY the kinds of things I wanted addressed here. I read the manual and the FAQ on Futaba's site, thank you. Putting new terminology to application in the real-world requires examples that I can understand relative to the application. I'm quite capable of programming the radio, I think. I need someone to tell me WHY and HOW are the BEST ways to program it. I guess that's the point I didn't make very well initially, apparently. :-(

At least one more person shares at least some of my desires to have this explained to us as he has stated above.

I moderate one of the largest forums on the net regarding an entirely different subject matter and I know how frustrating it can be to deal with newbies. I do it all the time and it frustrates me sometimes too but we must recognize without newbies coming into the hobby with regularity, our mutual hobbies and interests will eventually faulter. The quicker and easier we can make new folks feel comfortable with their new endeavors; the more successful our hobbies will become and the more we can enjoy it in greater numbers. You might want to remember that the next time you tell someone to RTFM. ;-)

Apparently, one of your co-moderators above agrees.

ENDEDIT

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

LM

You’re floating an interesting perspective and making lofty generalizations. I made no mention of reading the MANUAL! You asked some basic questions with regard to programming and model specific needs. Futaba offers answers to your questions as FACTS with reasonable presentations and real world scenarios that are easy to align ones self with, IMO... I simply thought you might garner some basic understanding if the capability of the 9Z and various model specific programming parameters. One generally learns to walk before he runs...

I offered help independent of the website FAQS and manual but simply suggested you familiarize yourself with this info first. I thought it might help YOU discuss YOUR needs/wants and concerns having a basic understanding of the TX's abilities and the common programming scenarios.

If you'll note I also answered each of your specific queries. Additional information is model and radio specific.

Ironically I have owned two of the H9 Sukhoi’s (powered with 100cc engines), you do NOT need spoilerons for walls with this model. I also own several 40% models, what works for some is not even considered by others. There is such a thing as over complication and under achievement. My personal opinion on all the mixes and crutches that many use and complicate things is pretty simple. Learn to fly the model first, even if you have to input corrective measures for design and or model setup. You'll be a much better pilot for it. Once you define what the model REALLY needs and you understand what corrective measures are wanted and or needed, start systematically employing mixes, functions, conditions and such one at a time... You'll need to spend a lot of time getting them right.

Have fun

FormerCA.

My Feedback: (8)

Mike;

Does the SU31 "corner square" on wall entry better without the ailerons deflecting up? I have mine mixed-just haven't "wrung" it out yet. By the way, that 3W is SUPER strong on this plane, as soon as I get her weened off of lawn-boy, i'm gonna start dialing it in.

Thanks

Ron

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

Ron

I don't recall. I do recall that our Sukhois walled like no tomorrow, no mixes et al.

Straight ahead entry, blip the throttle maybe 1/4-1/3 and pull full UP and hold on. We had it setup tail heavy, how much I don't know. Never made an effort to check it out, it was simply displayed all the indicators as such... All the servos were in the stock locations on the first one.

The 3W was a beast, ours was a real animal. The model found a new home at 8500' elevation and is reported to be unreal!

FormerCA.

My Feedback: (8)

Oh, MAN!-thats cool!!

Yea, I have all of my servos in the stock location too-balanced out perfectly. Would have had to add some tail weight if I had gone with a pull-pull on the rudder.

Thanks Mike

Kregg

My Feedback: (45)

Learning Man:
I'm you to a T but a year later. Mglavin has the right direction for you. It might sound stand-offish, but its just true. The manual is a LARGE book because this radio has a tremendous amount of flexibility and options... you will not use all of them. I was very confused at first (still am occasionally) and I'm still working through it as well. I simply started with a smaller less expensive aircraft (120 sized Ultimate in my case) and programmed in the very basics to get me into the air. No expo, no dual rates, etc... get that puppy up in the air and then start experimenting with one thing at a time using the manual as you go. Explore and solve 1 at a time. The basics will start your learning curve for the code names and such. I'm the only guy at my field with a Z and I was forced into the manual in depth. It is a great resource and the web site listed above also provided great examples. Print out the examples and put them in your Tx carrying case. I use these pages at the field often when I'm tweaking the programming. When you get a better understanding of the basics you can start to ask more detailed specific question and you will find folks genuinely willing to help you out (like Mgalvin and me).

Generally, no Y harnesses when you have open channels in your Rx (with exceptions). I used the DIFFERENTIAL #1 & #7 set up for the ailerons and have yet to look back. Since the Ultimate I've been flying a 1/4 scale Extra 300 with split elevator servos using elevons (very cool) and much, much more. Still learning and tweaking. I have a 35% project with a DA150 on the table and will be taking another next step next Spring. Simply do not try to absorb it all at once.
Kregg

BobPhx

Ditto that. I am right there with Kregg. Except that I use FLAPERONS and AILEVATORS. There is no always right setup, there are about 23 ways to skin a cat with the 9z. I would add one thing to what Kregg and MG said about sticking to the basics: Be sure to go into the FNC (function) menu and turn off what you are not using. Otherwise, you could end up with two controls talking to the same channel. (Drove me nuts for awhile, I couldn't figure out why one elevator half was acting goofy. Turns out I had it on Channel 5 and hadn't turned off the default retract switch.)
Finally, walk thru the sample model setup in the manual. It's only about 4 pages. It will get you 90% of what you need. Good luck and let us know what specific questions you have. We'll tell you our preferences, and I bet they'll be 3 different answers. Which is fine.

Mikes machines

LearingMan, When I bought my 9C I opened the manual and thought, man this is the most expensive mistake I ever made, I'll never get this figured out! After much stressing I just put my plane on the workbench and started. The first step was verifying that when I moved the right stick left and right the ailerons moved then the elevator and so on. They all moved but some in the wrong direction. I found the place in the manual on reverseing servos and kept going from there. You have to solve the problems one at time and dont try to do everything at once. It would take a post the size of an encyclopedia to tell you how to program your radio. Start with the basics and then when you hit a specific snag ask us here. I'm sure you will get several answers, pick the one that works for you and carry on.

14th_Reaper

My Feedback: (-1)

Hi there Learning Man.

I too have this wonderful bird and wanted to set it up for spoilerons. I looked in the manual to no avail. Instead of waiting here for an answer, I went to the faq on the futaba site and the following is directly from their FAQ.


I want to set up "Spoilerons" on my 9C, but I would like them activated on a switch so that I have Flaperons normally but the Spoilerons when I flip the switch, can you help me?
Depending on if you have dual Elevators, there are two ways of doing this. The first way would be if you have two elevator servos and you are using a Y-harness for them.

You will go into your Advanced menu and make Flaperon active, next go into Flaptrim and make sure that it is active and set a percentage of at least 5%.


Next you will go into a blank Pmix, and make it active, scroll down and make the master Elevator, and the slave will be Flaps. You will need to have Link On, Trim On, and then choose which switch you want to use, and what position you want it active on, on the second screen you will make your percentages +100% in both directions.
This will give you the Spoilerons you are looking for if you are using a Y-harness for your Elevator servos.

Now if you have two Elevator servos, one in channel 2 and one in channel 8, you will need to follow the set up below:

First you will need to do #1 above, then do a second Pmix, with Elevator as master, and Aux2 as slave. Turn Link On, Trim On, and using the same switch that you used in the first step in the same position as the first step, again you will adjust your percentages to +100%. You will also need to go into the Basic menu screen and go into Aux channel and make Channel 8 controlled by the switch that you set up in your Pmix to control your Spoilerons.
This will give you what you are looking for.


I hope this helps you. I am going to try and set mine up tomorrow and maybe give it a shot this weekend.

WilsonFlyer

My Feedback: (13)

Thanks guys. I really do appreciate all the help and advice. Looks like I'm destined to "do it on my own" for the most part. It was an honest effort to try to get this documented so people would at least have a starting point. I thought there was hope when one of the mods promised to do it. I guess after another mod made his comments that the first guy decided not to after all. :-(

I failed miserably in an honest effort to help everyone not so expert as most here. My apologies. Maybe the next person will be luckier than I was. I'll keep my eyes open for that thread. :-)

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

LearningMan,

Trust me - when you've mastered programming your 9Z you'll realise that it would take a thread almost the size of the ZAP manual itself to provide you with a step by step guide to everything you've asked for and another thread half the size again to explain all the terms

WilsonFlyer

My Feedback: (13)

You're probably right. What I was hoping to avoid was it ending up costing me a few $3k airplanes to learn how to use my radio properly. Oh well... they're just airplanes, right? ;-)

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Learning Man,

So long as the basic control surfaces move in the right direction relative to the stick movement you won't waste any $3k planes!

If you're not sure if they ARE moving in the correct direction then you should stay well away from any plane and seek tuition. I'm sure as a network management guy you could understand enough of the manual to reverse servos if necessary!

No mixes/rates/flight conditions etc will 'save' your plane - they'll just make it fly that little bit better!

Rgds,
Mark

PS Always check any programming changes you make on the ground first!!! Don't just fly, flick the mixing switch and wonder what the hell is happening!

FormerCA.

My Feedback: (8)

LearningMan;

The above post is correct. Just get her flying properly on the basic 4 channels (thr., rud, ail, ele.), with the throws set to the appropriate values. Any terms that you do not understand are usually addressed in the manual-just look them up-you dont HAVE to include every possible "bell and whistle" that your radio features. Later on, just experiment with some of those extras-no need to "crash".

That's my $.02