I don't like the no 3D rule
12-05-2003, 12:51 AM
#26
RE: I don't like the no 3D rule
Gordo,
FACT: I never said tail touches were bad.
FACT: I happen to think that the current version of rule 9 is WRONG.
FACT: I am not a politician.
CHALLENGE: PROVE ANY of those facts are in error.
The direct answer to your question is this: The ONLY thing that 3D seems to need is some guidance that a few seem to be unwilling to take from their fellow modelers and that is causing grief that is seen in the form of an offensive rule. As long as the few paint all with the same wide black brush it will be difficult to get much elbow room in the rules. Your whole approach is a good example of what is probably non productive.
Let me say it another way. SOME 3d'ers have made it a practice to rub the rest of the folks the wrong way. Exactly how much positive do you think might ever come of those type of actions? I am convinced THAT is why rule 9 exists.
Here is a clue to the true nature of the problem you seem to be having with my basic premise. Please tell us why you don't do tail touches at your local shopping mall. I have never heard of any statistics that you ask for indicating any problems doing that there. So please explain exactly how safe an activity it is.
Your mind appears to be made up and you cannot be confused by FACTS (as the 40% Sukhoi planted during a tail touch attempt) presented. Sorry, either you want to hear about bloody body parts for some obscure reason OR that incident must count as a STATISTIC. You cannot have it both ways. Choose one or the other, announce the choice and stick with it.
[:@] You have repeatedly indicated that I am not a modeler but a politician and I find that personally offensive. [:@]
Please cease and desist. This does NOT have to be a fight unless that is what you want to make of it. I don't.
FACT: I never said tail touches were bad.
FACT: I happen to think that the current version of rule 9 is WRONG.
FACT: I am not a politician.
CHALLENGE: PROVE ANY of those facts are in error.
The direct answer to your question is this: The ONLY thing that 3D seems to need is some guidance that a few seem to be unwilling to take from their fellow modelers and that is causing grief that is seen in the form of an offensive rule. As long as the few paint all with the same wide black brush it will be difficult to get much elbow room in the rules. Your whole approach is a good example of what is probably non productive.
Let me say it another way. SOME 3d'ers have made it a practice to rub the rest of the folks the wrong way. Exactly how much positive do you think might ever come of those type of actions? I am convinced THAT is why rule 9 exists.
Here is a clue to the true nature of the problem you seem to be having with my basic premise. Please tell us why you don't do tail touches at your local shopping mall. I have never heard of any statistics that you ask for indicating any problems doing that there. So please explain exactly how safe an activity it is.
Your mind appears to be made up and you cannot be confused by FACTS (as the 40% Sukhoi planted during a tail touch attempt) presented. Sorry, either you want to hear about bloody body parts for some obscure reason OR that incident must count as a STATISTIC. You cannot have it both ways. Choose one or the other, announce the choice and stick with it.
[:@] You have repeatedly indicated that I am not a modeler but a politician and I find that personally offensive. [:@]
Please cease and desist. This does NOT have to be a fight unless that is what you want to make of it. I don't.
12-05-2003, 07:19 AM
#27
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charles Town, WV
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I don't like the no 3D rule
You won't find anyone who is able to replace the current elected officials due to the requirements of holding office and nomination process. You won't get any facts or empirical data that suggests the current or future rules changes make things safer as no one wants to show that since it goes against the grain of the current social engineering project that the AMA has in mind.
You won't get the facts and rebuttals you are requesting Gordo. It is a play straight from the liberal handguide - Make yourself appear to represent the will of the people - change your oppinion and ideals depending on which way public oppinion is going - and most importantly try to chide your opposition into hiding by suggesting that their mental abilities are less than those of your greatly enlightened self.
Oh and by the way, apparantly AMA has their busy body snoops on the board. They know what is being discussed, but don't have the balls to come out and address the issues. I say this because I got 2 messages from a "Dr. Frank" saying he had heard I was interested in a lifetime membership in AMA. I intend to call this Dr. Frank and see if it is really an AMA representative. I also will tell him that I was interested in AMA lifetime membership, but that will never happen until Brown and a few others that I dislike are GONE from AMA.
Todd
You won't get the facts and rebuttals you are requesting Gordo. It is a play straight from the liberal handguide - Make yourself appear to represent the will of the people - change your oppinion and ideals depending on which way public oppinion is going - and most importantly try to chide your opposition into hiding by suggesting that their mental abilities are less than those of your greatly enlightened self.
Oh and by the way, apparantly AMA has their busy body snoops on the board. They know what is being discussed, but don't have the balls to come out and address the issues. I say this because I got 2 messages from a "Dr. Frank" saying he had heard I was interested in a lifetime membership in AMA. I intend to call this Dr. Frank and see if it is really an AMA representative. I also will tell him that I was interested in AMA lifetime membership, but that will never happen until Brown and a few others that I dislike are GONE from AMA.
Todd
12-05-2003, 08:29 AM
#28
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Weatherford, TX
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I don't like the no 3D rule
Gordo, that letter is a good one. I can't believe DB actaully wrote what he did. I really hope he does respond. I want to see what excuse he comes up with.
have fun flying
have fun flying
12-05-2003, 09:23 AM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sapulpa,
OK
Posts: 944
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: I don't like the no 3D rule
Jim,
Tail touchin at the mall
. As I have said before all of the Pro Bro's That I have flown with use common sense
I will say that again, COMMON SENSE. B Bill
Tail touchin at the mall
. As I have said before all of the Pro Bro's That I have flown with use common senseI will say that again, COMMON SENSE. B Bill
12-05-2003, 03:47 PM
#30
RE: I don't like the no 3D rule
LOL!
Bill,
You are right. ALL of the 3D folks I play with practice common sense and generally represent some of the safest fliers I associate with. I frequently learn something from them. However, the problem is twofold. First, COMMON SENSE is not! The second problem is much more serious. Most of the problems I have heard of (more of that anecdotal stuff Gordo goes off on) involved folks who are NOT members of any organized group (or "part of the community" as Gordo said in his letter to Dave Brown) but self centered and careless in many different but obvious ways. THAT is a recipe for disaster and is also what has driven someone to put rule 9 in the safety code. All the wailing about fairness is not going to change the rule, but common sense and careful thinking and discussion without personalities might.
I used the mall parking lot to make a point about statistics because some seem to have a problem with evidence not certified by an auditing agency and don't want any rules directed in their direction. Sorry, I did not mean to rattle cages just open minds - not even to agree with me but to at least engage their thinking equipment.
I don't have a problem with the concept of rule 9 (provide some protection for the rest of the spectators and pilots), but I do have serious grief as it is currently written. I think Mike's idea of distance by weight is a good solution to provide some separation between uninvolved modelers and the thrashing saws we call propellers. The correct rewrite of rule 9 should cover everyone, such as the helicopter guys and may possibly prevent another disaster like the recent one in Houston.
Augiep38, when you finally speak to Dr. Frank please let us know WHERE you found him. He seems to be unwilling to answer friendly e-mail from some folks in his own District.
Bill,
You are right. ALL of the 3D folks I play with practice common sense and generally represent some of the safest fliers I associate with. I frequently learn something from them. However, the problem is twofold. First, COMMON SENSE is not! The second problem is much more serious. Most of the problems I have heard of (more of that anecdotal stuff Gordo goes off on) involved folks who are NOT members of any organized group (or "part of the community" as Gordo said in his letter to Dave Brown) but self centered and careless in many different but obvious ways. THAT is a recipe for disaster and is also what has driven someone to put rule 9 in the safety code. All the wailing about fairness is not going to change the rule, but common sense and careful thinking and discussion without personalities might.
I used the mall parking lot to make a point about statistics because some seem to have a problem with evidence not certified by an auditing agency and don't want any rules directed in their direction. Sorry, I did not mean to rattle cages just open minds - not even to agree with me but to at least engage their thinking equipment.
I don't have a problem with the concept of rule 9 (provide some protection for the rest of the spectators and pilots), but I do have serious grief as it is currently written. I think Mike's idea of distance by weight is a good solution to provide some separation between uninvolved modelers and the thrashing saws we call propellers. The correct rewrite of rule 9 should cover everyone, such as the helicopter guys and may possibly prevent another disaster like the recent one in Houston.
Augiep38, when you finally speak to Dr. Frank please let us know WHERE you found him. He seems to be unwilling to answer friendly e-mail from some folks in his own District.
