Dual Battery Switches
11-27-2003, 09:51 PM
#1
Dual Battery Switches
First off I am placing this thread here since a fair amount of Giant Scalers do this.
Most of our local Giant Scale Aerobatic guys run two switches. Now i haven't realy paid much attention to that until recently. A year ago I lost my hot little P 51 to a failure of either the switch or the battery, Everything just froze up with no glitching and flew out to the promise land.
Now I think placing dual switches in every plane i have is a bit silly but my big WM P-51 "Modified" has some serious time and money in it. Can I run two switches with a "Y" cord into the battery?????
Most of our local Giant Scale Aerobatic guys run two switches. Now i haven't realy paid much attention to that until recently. A year ago I lost my hot little P 51 to a failure of either the switch or the battery, Everything just froze up with no glitching and flew out to the promise land.
Now I think placing dual switches in every plane i have is a bit silly but my big WM P-51 "Modified" has some serious time and money in it. Can I run two switches with a "Y" cord into the battery?????
11-28-2003, 08:20 AM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
The way most do it is plug one pack/switch into the Battery jack on your reciver and the second pack/switch to any available CH on your reciver. By using a Y, if it failed you would be back to square one.
Take a look here > http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/
Take a look here > http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/
11-28-2003, 09:16 AM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
You can run two switches into a "Y" but I would advise to run at least one of the switched packs into the receiver. If you are out of ports, out a "Y" on the throttle and run the other switched pack through there.
11-28-2003, 11:21 AM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
It sounds like you want to run one battery and two switches. If thats correct, you can do that with a Y, or you can solder another pigtail right onto the battery. Either way is good, but if your soldering techniques aren't up to snuff, the Y would probably be the better choice. This configuration would protect you from a switch failure, but does nothing in the event of a battery failure. If you really want good protection, two batteries and two switches are the way to go as Geistware and stomper described above.
11-28-2003, 02:13 PM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
And if it's switches your worried about, a electronic switch would be the answer. These fail in the ON position. Here's a link:
[link]http://fromeco.org/[/link]
[link]http://fromeco.org/[/link]
11-28-2003, 03:47 PM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
If you want to use one battery pack, make sure it's a 5-cell pack. Most batteries fail with one cell going to a dead short. In that failure mode, you'll still have 4.8+ volts available. Most receivers will not work on 3-cells.
11-28-2003, 07:09 PM
#7
RE: Dual Battery Switches
So let me see if I have this straight. Two separate battery setups except the second one will be plugged into whatever channel I have open? Most likely ch 7 or 8? This sound right? And just turn on and off as normal?
11-28-2003, 08:16 PM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
Yes.
For clarification. Lets say you have a switch and battery plugged into the battery port. Standard procedure. Now, lets say you had channel 6 not being used, and you plugged a second battery and switch into that. You now have two batteries, each capable of power the entire system independently. Some caveats. Both batteries need to be of the same cell count. Ie, 4 cell 4.8v and a second 4 cell 4.8v. They do not need to be of the same capacity, but for management and maintenance I prefer two identical packs. All of the positive (red) and negative (black pins) are all connected within the receiver. There is no difference between a battery port and a channel port, with the exception of the signal lead (white, orange, blue, depending on brand).
Before flight, you turn on one battery, turn on your transmitter, and check to verify that it is working. Then you turn on the second battery, and turn off the first battery to verify that the second one is operating properly. Then you turn back on the first, so that both are now on, and go fly. You now have covered probably 80-90% of the most common types of failure with full redundancy. Check the packs before each flight, and you've got a very reliable setup. This setup is the most common form of power redundancy seen on planes from 25% and up.
If you use two switches and one battery, you are providing for switch failures, but not battery issues. Not an unreasonable thing to do on the smaller planes that can't handle the extra weight of a second battery pack. But ideally, the dual switch/dual battery is the most common.
For clarification. Lets say you have a switch and battery plugged into the battery port. Standard procedure. Now, lets say you had channel 6 not being used, and you plugged a second battery and switch into that. You now have two batteries, each capable of power the entire system independently. Some caveats. Both batteries need to be of the same cell count. Ie, 4 cell 4.8v and a second 4 cell 4.8v. They do not need to be of the same capacity, but for management and maintenance I prefer two identical packs. All of the positive (red) and negative (black pins) are all connected within the receiver. There is no difference between a battery port and a channel port, with the exception of the signal lead (white, orange, blue, depending on brand).
Before flight, you turn on one battery, turn on your transmitter, and check to verify that it is working. Then you turn on the second battery, and turn off the first battery to verify that the second one is operating properly. Then you turn back on the first, so that both are now on, and go fly. You now have covered probably 80-90% of the most common types of failure with full redundancy. Check the packs before each flight, and you've got a very reliable setup. This setup is the most common form of power redundancy seen on planes from 25% and up.
If you use two switches and one battery, you are providing for switch failures, but not battery issues. Not an unreasonable thing to do on the smaller planes that can't handle the extra weight of a second battery pack. But ideally, the dual switch/dual battery is the most common.
12-22-2003, 10:49 AM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
Almost all the giant pilots install two complete diferent radio systems, 1 on each half of the aircraft, thought being if you lose one you can get it back. Not sure if this has ever been tested, but a great idea. I have been flying giant aircraft since the early 80's and have used dual battery packs, but for a diffent reasion. As the models get bigger with more servos the problem to consider is the servos current drain lowering the voltage to the receiver and thus a crash. This is not my idea, but Bob Cambell shared that with me in 1982, after crashing a sopwith put with giant servos, six to be exact in a friends aircraft. I have built a pcboard that seperates the power to the receiver and the servos, with ground the only the common connection. I use a 6oo ma for the receiver and depending on the amount of and current capacity of the servos a 1000 ma or larger. Currently flying a 1/4 scale Sig cub, with a Fuji 32 using this set up. Just add the total current up on the servos and double that for the battery cap, just as a rule of thumb. In 20 years of flying have never lost an aircraft because of battery problems and with the technology of batteries now days, its probable redundant insurance. I also eliminate all the connectors that is possible. I cut the plug off the servos and wire them streight to the battery seperator board. You can build the same by a visit to Radio Shack. Good luck
12-22-2003, 12:32 PM
#11
RE: Dual Battery Switches
[:-]
I fully concur with Highflightld..am doing essentially the same thing but will get out the printed circuit supplies and build up a couple of interconnect boards for my birds..Great Idea Larry!! Hummmm.....even incorperate a 6v regulator therein.. That'll work!!!![>:]
Though I do go one step further and get rid of the cheap-O unreliable switches that the industry suffers upon the R/Cer's and you still can not buy good ones for less than $ 12.95.
I build a new Power harness on all my new Units as soon as possible but always before use in an aircraft. (Save the orginial harness in case of Warrenty issues.)
The electronic switch or the use of a Shorting Plug is much more positive and reliable.
The most popular are the replacement power/audio sockets and the plugs from cassette, disc and other auto audio type equipment. Of these I prefer the 5 pin polarized. The mounting hole for the socket measures 5/8 inch in dia. The socket comes with a nicely formed rubber protective cover that also has an outlet for the wires. Of course there are other combo's of plug and sockets available with more pins for a more complicated hook up. Like twin batteries and the like.. Cut the parts count and reduce your failure percentage. You can even charge / or check the batteries from the same shorting plug. So you can do away with the added charge parts of the orginial harness.
A well stocked Electronics Supply Store or even a Auto Supply outlet should have them in stock, but you may have to ask for them. Just ask for power cord plug and socket for a auto tape deck. Or even that old tape deck/audio amp that you took out of your auto or pickup will yeild a good socket and plug.
Don't use the Audio Jack type as they have a set of contacts internally that is subject to dirt, dust, esp. balsa dust and are not of a suffient amperage rating that will offer the reliability that we need with the new digital servos or the higher powered servos.
Down with Switches Forever!
I fully concur with Highflightld..am doing essentially the same thing but will get out the printed circuit supplies and build up a couple of interconnect boards for my birds..Great Idea Larry!! Hummmm.....even incorperate a 6v regulator therein.. That'll work!!!![>:]
Though I do go one step further and get rid of the cheap-O unreliable switches that the industry suffers upon the R/Cer's and you still can not buy good ones for less than $ 12.95.
I build a new Power harness on all my new Units as soon as possible but always before use in an aircraft. (Save the orginial harness in case of Warrenty issues.)
The electronic switch or the use of a Shorting Plug is much more positive and reliable.
The most popular are the replacement power/audio sockets and the plugs from cassette, disc and other auto audio type equipment. Of these I prefer the 5 pin polarized. The mounting hole for the socket measures 5/8 inch in dia. The socket comes with a nicely formed rubber protective cover that also has an outlet for the wires. Of course there are other combo's of plug and sockets available with more pins for a more complicated hook up. Like twin batteries and the like.. Cut the parts count and reduce your failure percentage. You can even charge / or check the batteries from the same shorting plug. So you can do away with the added charge parts of the orginial harness.
A well stocked Electronics Supply Store or even a Auto Supply outlet should have them in stock, but you may have to ask for them. Just ask for power cord plug and socket for a auto tape deck. Or even that old tape deck/audio amp that you took out of your auto or pickup will yeild a good socket and plug.
Don't use the Audio Jack type as they have a set of contacts internally that is subject to dirt, dust, esp. balsa dust and are not of a suffient amperage rating that will offer the reliability that we need with the new digital servos or the higher powered servos.
Down with Switches Forever!
12-22-2003, 01:15 PM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
Some good switches are the Smart Fly Super switches. www.smart-fly.com
they have failsafe and if you use 2 you have to have 4 failures to crash really. Much better chance IMO
they have failsafe and if you use 2 you have to have 4 failures to crash really. Much better chance IMO
12-22-2003, 06:42 PM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
Just went to this site and I don't see what the "failsafe" part of the Super Switch is. Looks like just a good heavy duty switch with 18 gauge wire.
12-23-2003, 01:00 AM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
Oops, I guess I made a mistake there. Only the Regulators are failsafe. I'm going to call though, I thought they made failsafe switches too
12-24-2003, 06:18 AM
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RE: Dual Battery Switches
Try Fromeco Scale Avionics. They have some of the best failsafe switches in the business.
[link]http://fromeco.org/[/link]
You can get them in the plain flavor or in the regulated flavor, or have them custom built! Your choice.
[link]http://fromeco.org/[/link]
You can get them in the plain flavor or in the regulated flavor, or have them custom built! Your choice.
12-25-2003, 03:38 PM
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A SINGLE 4PDT switch might work...
Dear Cyclic Hardover and Fellow RCU'ers:
The PIPE here yet again...and I've LONG planned to use not DUAL switches, but a SINGLE 4PDT TOGGLE switch, for switching TWO battery packs when I finally get into Giant Scale aircraft in about a year or two!
I've got a post here at RCU's Radios forum at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/TOGG...1375604/tm.htm to ask about the suitablility of TOGGLE switches for an airborne switch's main electromechanical component...and even though I was mentioning C & K DPDT switches in my linked thread for SINGLE battery operation, the NKK company (available from Mouser Electronics) makes flat handle 4PDT toggle switches that could be used, exactly as I mention using the C & K switches I already have for "normal" 40-90 four stroke powered sport plane airborne switch harnesses in my linked thread, for Giant Scale battery switching of a PAIR of battery packs...a large capacity one for JUST powering the aerodynamic control servos, and a smaller one for powering JUST the receiver and throttle servo...with the negative leads for each totally separate power bus being hardwired together (just to their OWN battery/receiver/charge socket connections, and NOT to each other, but ONLY if that's a good idea) and only switching, though doubled-up "redundant" parallel switch contacts, the POSITIVE connections of the two batteries. Each battery has its OWN battery, charge and airborne system power source connections...with the high capacity battery (something like a Sanyo 3300 mAH NiMH 4-cell-based pack) powering the aerodynamic servos ONLY, through a device like the EMS/Jomar Glitch Buster unit's plus power connection to each aerodynamic servo cable's red wire, and running ONLY the smaller battery pack's connection through the low current side of the dual battery harness into the receiver, and thusly to the throttle servo cable's plus power connection at the reciever's throttle servo connection socket.
I haven't received any response in my other thread as yet due to the holiday, but I'd ALSO like viewers of THIS thread to read, and PLEASE read THOROUGHLY, exactly what I'm wishing to do with DPDT flat handle toggle switches for single battery airborne switch harness creation in the thread I started in the Radios forum...and if this idea will ALSO be suitable for DUAL battery hookups with a 4PDT flat handle NKK made miniature toggle switch, used in a DuBro Kwik-Switch II INTERNAL switch mount precisely as I mention doing in my linked thread, for the purpose of making my own Giant Scale dual battery hookups!
Hope to hear from someone here in THIS thread OR my other one sometime in the near future about this idea...as I make ALL my own battery packs...and I'd also like to do the same with my own "made-by-myself" airborne switch harnesses, BOTH for normal sport sized four stroke powered RC models AND for four stroke powered Giant Scalers as well!
Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE!
The PIPE here yet again...and I've LONG planned to use not DUAL switches, but a SINGLE 4PDT TOGGLE switch, for switching TWO battery packs when I finally get into Giant Scale aircraft in about a year or two!
I've got a post here at RCU's Radios forum at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/TOGG...1375604/tm.htm to ask about the suitablility of TOGGLE switches for an airborne switch's main electromechanical component...and even though I was mentioning C & K DPDT switches in my linked thread for SINGLE battery operation, the NKK company (available from Mouser Electronics) makes flat handle 4PDT toggle switches that could be used, exactly as I mention using the C & K switches I already have for "normal" 40-90 four stroke powered sport plane airborne switch harnesses in my linked thread, for Giant Scale battery switching of a PAIR of battery packs...a large capacity one for JUST powering the aerodynamic control servos, and a smaller one for powering JUST the receiver and throttle servo...with the negative leads for each totally separate power bus being hardwired together (just to their OWN battery/receiver/charge socket connections, and NOT to each other, but ONLY if that's a good idea) and only switching, though doubled-up "redundant" parallel switch contacts, the POSITIVE connections of the two batteries. Each battery has its OWN battery, charge and airborne system power source connections...with the high capacity battery (something like a Sanyo 3300 mAH NiMH 4-cell-based pack) powering the aerodynamic servos ONLY, through a device like the EMS/Jomar Glitch Buster unit's plus power connection to each aerodynamic servo cable's red wire, and running ONLY the smaller battery pack's connection through the low current side of the dual battery harness into the receiver, and thusly to the throttle servo cable's plus power connection at the reciever's throttle servo connection socket.
I haven't received any response in my other thread as yet due to the holiday, but I'd ALSO like viewers of THIS thread to read, and PLEASE read THOROUGHLY, exactly what I'm wishing to do with DPDT flat handle toggle switches for single battery airborne switch harness creation in the thread I started in the Radios forum...and if this idea will ALSO be suitable for DUAL battery hookups with a 4PDT flat handle NKK made miniature toggle switch, used in a DuBro Kwik-Switch II INTERNAL switch mount precisely as I mention doing in my linked thread, for the purpose of making my own Giant Scale dual battery hookups!
Hope to hear from someone here in THIS thread OR my other one sometime in the near future about this idea...as I make ALL my own battery packs...and I'd also like to do the same with my own "made-by-myself" airborne switch harnesses, BOTH for normal sport sized four stroke powered RC models AND for four stroke powered Giant Scalers as well!
Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE!
