Pica Duelist Gear
12-15-2004, 03:15 AM
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Pica Duelist Gear
I have inherited a Pica Duelist, among 14 other aircraft, and am just now finishing my training with a Midwest Aerostar. Though flying it is a ways down the road, I'd like to begin preparing the Duelist for flight. She is absolutely GORGEOUS in black and gold. But as for the questions:
-She is powered by two K&B .40's, is this underpowered?
-Are remote glow drivers worth the money in preventing engine outs?
-Are tuned pipes worthwhile on an aircraft like this?
-I worry the gear is too short, and since the aircraft is completely, and expertly, assembled...is there anything that can be done regarding prop clearance? (other than three blades which I am planning on already)
I've looked through countless posts and haven't had these questions answered in my mind. Thanks a lot.
-She is powered by two K&B .40's, is this underpowered?
-Are remote glow drivers worth the money in preventing engine outs?
-Are tuned pipes worthwhile on an aircraft like this?
-I worry the gear is too short, and since the aircraft is completely, and expertly, assembled...is there anything that can be done regarding prop clearance? (other than three blades which I am planning on already)
I've looked through countless posts and haven't had these questions answered in my mind. Thanks a lot.
12-15-2004, 06:38 AM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
I've had a Duellist earlier. Unfortunately it is now history due to a pilot error which was not due to twin engines. (The ground unexplainably raced upwards somehow... ) Nevertheless, question #1, K&B 40s are adequate. Question #2, No, not really. I did not have it on my Duellist equipped with two OS40s. If the engines are new, run them in a bench mount until you are perfectly happy with the performance at all revs. In the plane, run them slightly on the rich side and you'll be fine. I had a couple of engine-out incidents on my Duellist but that was due to contaminated fuel. Question #3, I do not see the point in doing so. You have enough power anyway. Question #4, You have found the one single design flaw on the Duellist... Three-bladed props or taildragger landing gears are possible solutions. But as you say, it is already finished...
Regards, Jens
Regards, Jens
12-15-2004, 01:16 PM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
PB:
hew Duellist 2/40 was originally the Duellist 2/30, designed for 30 size engines. The K&B 40s will be plenty. Not a rocket, but enough to fly the pattern if you wish.
The K&B 40 engines will do fine with 10x6 three blade props, possibly a little better with 9x6 three blade, though. Depends on the individual engines, and which series 40s they are.
Glow drivers and the pipes are not needed in the least.
With the 10" props tip clearance will not be a problem, unless you fly from grass and the grass is overdue for cutting.
Bill.
hew Duellist 2/40 was originally the Duellist 2/30, designed for 30 size engines. The K&B 40s will be plenty. Not a rocket, but enough to fly the pattern if you wish.
The K&B 40 engines will do fine with 10x6 three blade props, possibly a little better with 9x6 three blade, though. Depends on the individual engines, and which series 40s they are.
Glow drivers and the pipes are not needed in the least.
With the 10" props tip clearance will not be a problem, unless you fly from grass and the grass is overdue for cutting.
Bill.
12-15-2004, 01:38 PM
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12-16-2004, 02:02 AM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
Two more issues:
-I have read that some of you have placed a fuel tank in the fuselage...how do you go about pressurizing it/setting it up to flow to both engines?
-I think the former owner put fairly light sporty servos in the Duelist...but with a plane of this size should I consider a high torque servo? Should I have seperate servos for each aileron?
-I have read that some of you have placed a fuel tank in the fuselage...how do you go about pressurizing it/setting it up to flow to both engines?
-I think the former owner put fairly light sporty servos in the Duelist...but with a plane of this size should I consider a high torque servo? Should I have seperate servos for each aileron?
12-17-2004, 02:57 PM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
PB:
Very few of our r/c engines will draw fuel reliably from a remote tank, even using muffler pressure.
My C-3/10 has a single tank, in the fuselage on the c/g. Each engine has its own Perry VP-30 pump. Works fine. You could also use either the Iron Bay or Cline regulators to accomplish the same purpose. I don't like to use the high pressure systems, as any leak can fill the airplane with fuel. With pumps you get a flame out from a large leak, it's easier to land with one engine running than to clean the mess out of the fuse. Or that's my feeling.
Using either pumps or a regujlator system header tanks don't help anything, they're just extra weight.
The airplane was designed to use a single "Standard" servo for the ailerons, and a single servo to ooperate both throttles. You can widen the aileron servo mount and use two, or you can go out into the wing and mount them outboard of the nacelles. Neither is necessary, the plane flies fine with the single servo.
You can also rework the plane to have dual throttle servos.
If the plane is all done I'd leave it alone, except possibly duals on the ailerons. But even there I'd leave them mounted in the wing root and not bother with the outboard mounting.
Bill.
Very few of our r/c engines will draw fuel reliably from a remote tank, even using muffler pressure.
My C-3/10 has a single tank, in the fuselage on the c/g. Each engine has its own Perry VP-30 pump. Works fine. You could also use either the Iron Bay or Cline regulators to accomplish the same purpose. I don't like to use the high pressure systems, as any leak can fill the airplane with fuel. With pumps you get a flame out from a large leak, it's easier to land with one engine running than to clean the mess out of the fuse. Or that's my feeling.
Using either pumps or a regujlator system header tanks don't help anything, they're just extra weight.
The airplane was designed to use a single "Standard" servo for the ailerons, and a single servo to ooperate both throttles. You can widen the aileron servo mount and use two, or you can go out into the wing and mount them outboard of the nacelles. Neither is necessary, the plane flies fine with the single servo.
You can also rework the plane to have dual throttle servos.
If the plane is all done I'd leave it alone, except possibly duals on the ailerons. But even there I'd leave them mounted in the wing root and not bother with the outboard mounting.
Bill.
12-23-2004, 01:18 AM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
Very few of our r/c engines will draw fuel reliably from a remote tank, even using muffler pressure.
My C-3/10 has a single tank, in the fuselage on the c/g. Each engine has its own Perry VP-30 pump. Works fine. You could also use either the Iron Bay or Cline regulators to accomplish the same purpose. I don't like to use the high pressure systems, as any leak can fill the airplane with fuel. With pumps you get a flame out from a large leak, it's easier to land with one engine running than to clean the mess out of the fuse. Or that's my feeling.
My C-3/10 has a single tank, in the fuselage on the c/g. Each engine has its own Perry VP-30 pump. Works fine. You could also use either the Iron Bay or Cline regulators to accomplish the same purpose. I don't like to use the high pressure systems, as any leak can fill the airplane with fuel. With pumps you get a flame out from a large leak, it's easier to land with one engine running than to clean the mess out of the fuse. Or that's my feeling.
To be perfectly honest I don't understand alot of what you said regarding fuel configuration. I notice mucksmear mentioned having two smaller tanks and a larger one in the fuse. As I have two 6 once tanks in there right now, I'd love to put a larger one in the fuse if that is an option.
What I understood from what you said, I should consider pumps for transfering fuel rather than muffler pressure?
02-02-2005, 11:18 PM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
PB:
A large apology - it's been more than a month since you made the last post, and I've not answered it.
Muffler pressure usually wont give good fuel delivery from a remotely mounted tank, whether or not header tanks are used. Mucksmear seems to have gotten good results from his, one of the few.
Cline and Iron Bay regulators pressurize the entire fuel system all the way up to the regulator, any leak in the pressurized part of the fuel system will empty the tank quickly.
And right, my reommended method is a sepaarate pump on each engine when using a remote tank.
Bill.
A large apology - it's been more than a month since you made the last post, and I've not answered it.
Muffler pressure usually wont give good fuel delivery from a remotely mounted tank, whether or not header tanks are used. Mucksmear seems to have gotten good results from his, one of the few.
Cline and Iron Bay regulators pressurize the entire fuel system all the way up to the regulator, any leak in the pressurized part of the fuel system will empty the tank quickly.
And right, my reommended method is a sepaarate pump on each engine when using a remote tank.
Bill.
02-03-2005, 08:42 AM
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RE: Pica Duelist Gear
If you are flying an aerostar, I think you are buying yourself problems even thinking about fuselage tanks, pumps & such. Go with the stock set-up at first. 6 ounces will be plenty for a K&B .40. I would remove the tank and check the rubber stopper to make sure it hasn't hardened and leaks.
If the engines are new, they need to be broken in and, better yet, flown in a single engine plane, your second airplane, before you put them in a twin. At this point, I would question whether you have enough experience to get both of them running reliably enough to safely fly your twin.
Get yourself a 4-Star 40 or Sky Raider Mach II and put 8 to a dozen flights on each engine. Use the same kind of 6 ounce tank that is in the Dualist. Get the engines adjusted so they run the whole flight, then don't touch the needles. I might move engine, tank and all to the Dualist, then start over with the next engine.
If the engines are new, they need to be broken in and, better yet, flown in a single engine plane, your second airplane, before you put them in a twin. At this point, I would question whether you have enough experience to get both of them running reliably enough to safely fly your twin.
Get yourself a 4-Star 40 or Sky Raider Mach II and put 8 to a dozen flights on each engine. Use the same kind of 6 ounce tank that is in the Dualist. Get the engines adjusted so they run the whole flight, then don't touch the needles. I might move engine, tank and all to the Dualist, then start over with the next engine.
02-03-2005, 01:41 PM
#12
RE: Pica Duelist Gear
Ed has some good advice. Since engine reliability is the key to success take the time to fly the engines in a trainer. I did that with four OS .25's that I used in a 4 engine model and never had a failure. They were well broken in and I was familiar with each one before it went in the scale airplane. I used a custom muffler setup to fit within the cowls so I wanted to test that on the trainer too. And it kept me from getting rusty on the sticks while I finished the scale project. Sure, it will take longer to get your multi ready to try but IMHO the extra effort will increase your chances for success.
I like to keep things simple and use a tank for each engine mounted in the nacelle. No heat to the glow plug and normal muffler pressure. I can make that work reliably on my trainer so thats what I do on the multis. I also like to use what I consider to be a "docile" engine and not some high power racing engine which might be a bit less reliable, which is why I chose OS 25 FP's for the scale airplane.
Good luck with your project and let us know how it works out.
Paul
I like to keep things simple and use a tank for each engine mounted in the nacelle. No heat to the glow plug and normal muffler pressure. I can make that work reliably on my trainer so thats what I do on the multis. I also like to use what I consider to be a "docile" engine and not some high power racing engine which might be a bit less reliable, which is why I chose OS 25 FP's for the scale airplane.
Good luck with your project and let us know how it works out.
Paul
