jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

I just bought a finished Top flite DC-3. It has OS 40la's for power, flaps, retracts, the works. I am going to do a careful inspection as it is new, never flown. My question is, I want to add a couple components, and wanted to know what ya'll thought.

I want to put this gyro on the rudder

[link]http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EXRG100[/link]

I can use the rudder on take off ( I also fly a GP stuka), but I want more help with this twin. Also, I have heard that a gyro on the rudder can help alot in an engine out scenario.

Also, to help prevent that flame out, I want to add onboard glow drivers...any suggestions to the type? I will be flying with a Futaba 9CAF. I have never had a twin. Currently I fly a hanger 9 t-34, and a great planes Ju-87 (not to mention several small electrics). Am I over my head with this plane ? With this setup, how large a battery do I need on the plane? a gyro, and glow drivers will use up the battery ALOT faster, right? The retracts are the robart pneumatics....

thanks![8D]

Jess

jaka

Hi!
You certainly don't need a gyro for a twin like that and I can assure you in the event of a flame out on one engine the rule is as always on a twin: Cut the throttle on the remaining engine and land!
Also forget about on board glow! Totally unnecessary if you have adequate engine knowledge.
The OS LA .40 are good for the DC-3 but they are a bit to powerful, but very reliable.
The most important thing to remember is as always: Keep it light and it will fly well!
Don't tinker whit a lot of gadgets...keep things simple!

Use 5-15% nitro and SS 8 or Enya 3 glowplugs.
Props could be 10x6 3-blade or 2-blade 10x6 APC.

Regards!
Jan K
Sweden

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

I hope you got a good deal on the shipping for that thing. thye guy that was selling it had it listed on ebay 3 times (i was going to buy it). it is a nice looking plane i backed down when he tried to charge me $300 to ship it. good luck with it please post some pics of your first flight. you got a great looking plane there

jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, shipping was high, but I figured I'd just drive out with my wife and make a "mini vacation" out of it. I think it looks pretty good too! can't wait to get it back and tinker a little It's about a ten hour drive for me, but, hey, like I told my wife, thats some good, quality time for us to spend together

BTW - she said it was "cute"?! What is cute?! Women

Jan - thanks for the reply! I know what you mean about gadgets but I am one of those people that LOVES gadgets. I know I have a problem, and they say that admitting it is the first step in getting better . I have 4 kids, so I don't get ALOT of free time (I used to have free time, hence the 4 kids...) I still kinda like the idea of a gyro on the rudder since I actually go fly to relax, not get uptight . I can fly my left thumb......I used to have a cub, 80" flew great, and the only time I hated that thing was taking off....so i HAD to learn rudder to get it off the ground. At this point I want to just RELAX.

I was kinda surprised about the glow drivers though....I am ok at setting up an engine, and only VERY rarely have I had a flame out, and only once that caused a crash. I was flying my GP ju-87 and lost the engine low and slow over the wrong end of the runway (naturally). I got it turned around , and got all the way down the field to set up to land upwind. Got to slow in my turn to final and it stalled from around 4 feet. Moderate damage that has since been repaired. I guess my point is, When I REALLY like my plane, why not add a bit of insurance because at SOME point you WILL have a flame out, and if that glow driver rides around for 25 flights and does nothing, but keeps that engine running that ONE time....I think its worth it. (mostly because I HATE to build)


Thanks!
Jess

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Jess

Yes I am a belever in a simple rudder gyro to buy a little reaction time with a sudden engine loss but even more important, particularly with a taildragger is they are very effective in preventing runway excursions back and forth on T/O as the engines will tend to spool up unevenly. The unit you picked is overkill for our purposes though and there just isn,t any reason for inflight gain control. I,am using two little Hobbico units on a quad and a twin, much less expensive and very effective as well as easy to set up. Got to order another soon for a Wing P-38 I,am working on fervorishly for warbird racing come March.

As far as the glow driver goes I gotta agree with Jaka, in most cases its just not neccessary. Going whole hog on all the other goodies its, my inclination not to carry that extra battery. Keep it lite.

John[8D]

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Jess:

For what it's worth, I agree with JohnB: Gyro yes, glow no.

Bill.

old-pilot

Jessh1969:
I use on board glow lighters especially on cowled twin engines for several reasons not the least of which is SAFETY and pure convenience. A DC3 should be able to carry a few more ounces..Looks like it's loaded now tho. Good Luck...

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Ok you probably don't want to hear this but..........

I have flown the La. OS engines and they are reliable unless inverted. I would not use a gyro. .I fly the C130 Herk w/ 4 engines w/o Gyro. Reliability is really important so I use Saito's. I don't know if you are willing to switch but..

If you use the La.'s be sure to set each engine at it's most reliable (not necessarily most powerful) setting. You really want reliability. Don't try to match rpm's with the needle valve.

I would recommend a computer radio and use aileron to rudder mixing. I have found this really helps on engine out. When an engine quits (I had one run out of fuel) and you use aileron for direction the computer mixing will add rudder and this will help.

Best of luck on your choices. Jim

kram

My Feedback: (7)

Nice-lookin' plane you have there!

I think you're asking good questions and getting good advice.

I have some advice on a more global scale:

The probability of RC disaster is exponentially related to the new (to you) systems on board. It sounds like you have a few here: twin engines, glow drivers, tail dragger, retracts, gyro.

I think your DC-3 would live a longer, happier life if you practiced first with a cheaper, easier twin with fixed tri-gear, like a Twin Air or the Hobbico ARF.

Assuming that, like most RCer's, you won't have that kind of patience (15 years ago my second plane was a full-build GP Corsair):

1) Read all of Twinman's treatise's on RCWarbirds.com about twins. They're experience-based and invaluable.
2) Find an experienced DC-3 flyer, close or far, check the plane out and help you with the first several flights.
3) FIRST AND FOREMOST, do whatever it takes to keep both engines running!! For all their complexity, twins aren't that hard to fly as long as you keep both engines running. This requires a compulsive attention to the details of tuning, fuel lines, ignition, cooling that is foreign to most single-engine flyers. It is said that keeping both engines running right on a twin is 4 times as hard as tuning a single.

Good Luck!

mt

tonystro

My Feedback: (1)

Jessh1969:

Welcome to the world of 'twinsanity'! (a term coined by Will Robison) I caught the disease last year and all the great people answering your questions have assisted me also. They have a wealth of wisdom, gained through experience, and are more than willing to share. I have noted that even when they disagree the information each provides is well worth consideration as you decide what is best for you.

One big difference I discover rather early between single- and twin-engined models, is that I always benefit from having an assistant when I'm starting and flying either of my twins. This is especially true during engine start and a vertical engine reliablilty test (I always do one, as advised by many here). I've also learned that rapid confirmation of an engine out is easier with a helper/spotter. From that one engine out experience I also learned to have my 40LAs running a click or two richer than I would on a single engine airplane. Haven't had an engine die since.

Presuming you fly at one of the club fields in central Arkansas, I would like to know when you start flying that beauty so I can come drool over it, and cheer you on! I have limited twin experience, several flights with Twin Star and two flights with A-26. Would be glad to assist in any way I can.

jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

I really appreciate all the advice! I think getting a second, cheaper twin would be the BEST route, but I don't think I will be able to go that route (I just bought a Futaba 9caf a few days BEFORE the NEW plane). I can generally get a new item or two past my wife, but I am not going to push my luck

I fly with the Skytigers here in North Little Rock (we put on a S.M.A.L.L.) event here in June every year. I have ALOT of good help, and I usually take it . A LHS owner has been invaluable with his time and advice. I know he flies at least one twin, and I watched him tune it not too long ago. I usually have him look them over to make sure I haven't missed anything. I am not in a hurry to put it in the air, and I guess the plan is to get it on the bench and really go over it top to bottom and see what it needs, check the weight, and see what I need to do to make it as safe as possible.

Tony,
I would love to have you down to fly with us! I'll let you know when I am ready to try this baby out [8D]. Have you ever been to our field in Burns Park? We had a good SMALL last June. My son and I worked the refreshment stand by the impound. I was amazed at the types of planes that we saw.

At this point, assuming when I weigh it that it's not overweight, I probably will add at least the rudder gyro, just to help ease the demand on the poor pilot who will be flying his first twin. May or may not go with onboard glows.....

By the way, on your first few flights with a new plane, does everyone else get a bad case of the shakes?! My son laughs because he can see my antenna twitching. I usually calm down after a flight or two.

Thanks again guys!

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Tony is right. I forgot to mention that when I fly my C130 I always have a Crew Chief.

The bird is tied down and two people used to start. I also have a very specific start procedure to keep living things out of spinning props.

The glow plug movement is from behind the engines while the starter is in front. The crewchief removes the tie down only when signaled.

I always use a spotter even if the field doesn't require it. I need someone else listening and watching for an engine to quit.

Keep the plane simple. I thought about gyros and glow drivers but decided to minimize extra stuff. The Herk flies great. It now had 33 successful flights. Of the 33, 2 had an engine out due to fuel problems.

Best of luck. Jim

rryman

My Feedback: (2)

While we're at it, I'll add my opinion also. I have a TF DC-3, with the OS .40LA engines, retracts, flaps, etc. I have neither the gyro or glow drivers. There has been a lot of good advice oon here. I have my rudder coupled with the ailerons like I believe Jimcork suggested. It helps. IF htis is your first twin, I only have two suggestions.
1. Don't let it "hop" off the ground on you prematurely like mine did on the first flight. Probably had a little much elevator on it and I had a handful until I got the trim taken care of. Keep it on the ground and get good airspeed.
2. Watch the landing and keep the speed up, especially if you have any headwind at all. Keep it flying right to the ground. If you let it come up on you and slow down, it will stall. It does fly very well in the air and has no bad habits. I haven't experienced an engine out situation yet. I'm running 10x6 three blade props on mine and they have plenty of power. I saw video of one that was running two blade props and it looked like a pylon racer. Not quite what I wanted.
The landing gear, (Im assuming it's the Robart) is not very forgiving of a rough landing. No give to them.
If you're an accomplished pilot, you should have no trouble. Just have someone standing by in case you need trim changes.
By the way, don't know if you have the Real Flight Simulator or know anyone who does, but the DC-3 on the simulator flies exactly like the TF DC-3. I did a lot of simulator practice before flying mine. If (on the simulator) you have enough airspeed, you can continue flying on one engine as long as you don't try to gain any altitude or turn into the dead engine. If you're low and slow and lose an engine, that's a whole 'nother situation.
Good Luck,
Randy

tonystro

My Feedback: (1)

jess,

Was at Sky Tigers field, daydreaming about the flying, a little over two years ago just before I returned to the hobby after a ten year break in building/flying. Its a little farther drive, from north of the air base, than two other club fields; Henderson R/C field in Sherwood and El Paso. Missed the past two S.M.A.L.L. events due to being out of town on business.

'rryman' can provide experienced advice about the DC-3, which I can not. However, I believe that if you could keep a Cub straight during takeoff, landing and taxing, you should hve little or no trouble with the DC-3 during those phases. If you can get your 'thumb' excercise using Flight Simulator, as mentioned. I'm sure it will help during the takeoff and landing, as well as reduce the 'shakes' because of the confidence you will gain.

As for the nervousness you mentioned, when I maidened the Twin Star I aborted the first take off because I thought the engines were surging. My 'co-pilot' informed me that I was so locked into control of rudder and elevator that I was 'twitching' the throttle and aileron controls![] Relaxed a little (yea, right) and next takeoff attempt went well, as did all flights since. First flight on the A-26, the antenna looked like a light sabre, nearly a blur. Calmed down by the time she was trimmed out, and doing rolls and loops.

I'll be a little busy preparing for and conducting a Warbird Fun-n-Fly in mid-March, but please email me ([email protected]), I'd like to stay in touch. Maybe we can help each other become 'twins-pert'.

rryman

My Feedback: (2)

..........if you could keep a Cub straight during takeoff, landing and taxing, you should hve little or no trouble with the DC-3 during those phases..........

Tony is right. If you can taxi a Cub, the DC-3 will be no problem. I've got video of mine in the air but none of the take off and landing.
Randy

Tony, which A-26 did you have. I had this one for 2-1/8 flights! An engine failure right at rotation and 6' of altitude does not allow a lot of time for decision making!
Randy

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

I have flown two of the TF DC-3s for the same builder. The first one had 40 LAs on it while the second one had 25FSs on it. The 25 powered plane is actually a slightly better performer although either will do the job.
As for gyros on the rudder I have no experience with them. I do however have engine out experience with both models. They are capable of flying well on one engine including single engine go arounds. The necessary thing is to keep the speed above the minimum controlability speed,VMC. This means that with this model you can climb gently or turn but you cannot do both simultaneously. For many the cut power and land may well be the best advice but that is not an absolute if you can make coordinated turns and have the mind set to put the nose down if you get too slow and it starts spiraling toward the dead engine.
I fly at SMALL event almost every year and have flown a fun scale Twin Mustang there for the last two years. One of the things that I do is aerobatics with one engine to show that energy management is the key to otherwise critical power situations. On hard surface runways I make single engine takeoffs to once again show that the loss of an engine doesn't have to always end with a crash.
The TF DC-3 is a good bird if built straight and properly balanced. Enjoy your time with it.