bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

Would like any and all opinions/ideas on this baffling (to me) subject. The gyst of it is, what is it in a 33~40% airplane that best enables a flyer to "back it down", descend in a hover, tailslide or whatever term best describes the controlled flying of what's opposite to climbing out of a hover? (How's that for a sentence )

I guess the most thought provoking question I have right now is whether my plane is wrong for the type of flying I like to do, or the engine response just isn't right for the kind of flying I like to do. My 40% 3W 330S flies great and the engine runs great. Both are very smooth and precise. It will elevator and harrier well and the engine has plenty of power to pull out or precarious situations.
My problem is, once I achieve the hover, I can hold it or climb, but rarely descend. So in my mind it's either throttle response or plane?
I use 3W and am in the process of replacing the 2000 version of the 150 in the plane to a QS series. This will reduce my total weight a little and give me some quick crisp throttle response.
Maybe I just need more time with the plane and overall set up. This is my second large scale aircraft and am still getting used to alot of things, but it seems like I'm working or having to fly harder than some of the 3D flyers/aircraft I've seen.
Whadda you think_bob

m.gramling

My Feedback: (8)

If I was you I would practice this up high, so that way you can get comfortable w/ the way the plane comes down. Here is what I do.

If your into a hover say your plane is holding steady about 80* or so. I woulnd't try it at 90* untill you get comfortable. That 90* are the point starts to T-roll. I wouldn't practice bringing it down pointed straight up untill you get comfortable with bringing it down w/ the nose tilted a little forward.

I would easy off of the throttle, a couple of clicks, and you will the plane start coming down slowly. Some times, I have to add up elevator to keep the nose from drop forward.

If your dropping to quick just add a couple of clicks of throttle that way can stop your descend and put you back into the hovering postition.

OnTheEdge

You might want to practice torque rolling FIRST at higher altitudes before you move into backing down from a hover. Most planes will want to torque roll as they are backing down because the prop really starts to bite the air and will cause it to turn and not just sit in a "canopy towards you" hover. This is augmented even more every time you burst the throtle to slow the decent, again making the plane turn in a torque roll. Once you're down to the altitude you'd like, then you can hold right aileron to stop the torque.

.........Mark

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

I'll keep working on it_bob

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

Bob

Constant throttle management i.e. moving the stick the whole time is the common approach.

The prop your using is also a significant factor. What are you using.

Your 3W Extra is highly capable of this maneuver. I have seen Garret dip the tail of his Extra in the water numerous times from a slow decent, it's very controllable.

bestrcpilot

When I was learning to back it down. I found that a little expo on the Throttle helps a lot. Play with the expo to flatten out the sweet spot the the plane likes to hover in. And a good servo that is fast is also a big help a 148 just will not work.
SDY

m.gramling

My Feedback: (8)

As for flying harder than somepeople. I am not saying 3D is easy by any means. But some people make it look real easy.

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

When you say constant movement, are you talking alot, or a couple of clicks at a time. With all of the other inputs going on during the maneuver, small click type increments get a bit tricky.
I'm not familiar with Garrett? Where can I find some info on him or his plane? There is a lighter competition version of the 330S also. I would be interested to know what his weighs. Mine is around 39 dry. Thanks guys_bob

m.gramling

My Feedback: (8)

Yes just few clicks at a time.

your right when your first starting to hover and back it down it does get a little tricky. But that is why, you have to practice, practice, practice, practice, etc.

drandles

My Feedback: (8)

Making the plane tail heavy helps too. I made my 33% Cap so tail heavy that it was hard to land. It wanted to porpoise. Then I set up flaps (flaperons)and also mixed in elevator. I land the Cap level (not pitched up or down)with flaps down. I burp the throttle if the descent is too fast.

As far as backing down, you can do the throttle a click or two at a time as others have suggested or do as I sometimes do - chop the throttle to idle and then add full throttle just as the plane decides to descend tail first. Ease off the throttle before it starts to climb again. Of course it is going to torque roll if your nose is straight up.

In other words just practice, practice, practice and you'll come up with your own way and you can tell us.

You can also practice on a simulator (with wind).

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

Bob

Garret Morrison is one of the up and coming young men involved in our hobby. Pretty well known now days. He's just turning eighteen I believe and is an incredible 3D and IMAC pilot. Garret has come along way from the days of hovering and torque rolling his Falcon 56. Futaba, 3W and other's offered Garret a sponsorship. I'll find out what he recommends for CG and the weight of his model.

Garret has a stock 3W Extra with a 150 on cannisters painted red/white/blue. I'll bet you've seen the model in a magazine and or a contest picture.

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

Never answered you on the prop. I have tried the 30x12 3W and the 32x10 3W and am currently going with the 32x10. I figure the longer the better. It seems to pull better with the 32. What's your opinion on props? What should I be using to break it in also. Thanks_bob

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

I took some of your suggestions and here is what I came up with. (thanks Joey ) I cleared my throttle curve for now until I can put more time on a newer style engine. My 2000 version of the 3W 150i2BF started and ran beautifully and was very very reliable. However, I just installed a newer style 3W 150. It happens to be the QS150. This engine has an opposite cylinder stagger and newer type carb mounting block as well as some other internal goodies. What I was ultimately after was better/quicker throttle response. Crisper is a nice word. Although the other engine pulled my 40%er out of a hover, my questions and answers seemed to be in the throttle linkage itself and throttle response in general. There was a tiny bit of slop in the linkage and I made the connection with the highest % of throw I could get on my 10X. I am a little disappointed that out of a possible 300%, I am only using about 200 of it. I just can't get the arms to configure any other way. Bottom line is that I can't mess around too much until the engine breaks in a little, but all indications are that I am on a track to answering my question.
I plan to market my other 150 without ignition if anyone is interested. Thanks and take care_bob