Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
11-11-2003, 12:08 PM
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Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
I am considering building a 33% plane this winter. While I would like to have an Aerotech/OMP/Aeroworks kit I can't afford those. Which leaves me with the GP 330. My question is can the tail surfaces be made bigger, and if so will it improve the 3D capabilities of the plane? I know airfoil, placements and other issues go into a 3D performer. Just wondered if anyone out there has modified the tail on this one and how it worked out. I have a H9 330 now and I really like the performance on it, however it has a lot of flights on it and would like to build something over the winter. Thanks for any help you guys can dish out!
11-11-2003, 05:53 PM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
After 350+ flights on mine, I can say that most 3D manuevers are well within the capabilities of the GP 330, even though it's strongest point is that it is an EXCELLENT sequence plane that is the equal of any 100cc class plane out there.
There are better 3D planes, but the only 3D manuevers that the GP330 doesn't like are parachutes and walls (wing always drops), and upright harriers and elevators. There is a lot of wing rocking when upright, and I've tried reflexing and drooping the elevators which did improve them somewhat. Roll inverted though, and it'll do inverted elevators and harriers as well as any plane with minimal wing rock. It does tight waterfalls, and will torque roll as well as the pilot can. Adding an inch along the trailing edge of the elevator will allow more pitch authority with minimal airflow, but to say that this change will improve 3D performance is stretching it.
The rudder does look very small compared to Caps, some other Extras and Edges, but the plane has a BUNCH more yaw authority than most. Remember, in knife edge, all the rudder does is provide angle of attack. The flying surface is what provides the lift, and the GP Extra's tall fuse provides a large "wing" to fly on in knife edge. This allows high alpha knife edge flight that just CRAWLS across the sky it's so slow. In a 10 mph headwind, how about a KNIFE EDGE HARRIER, or KNIFE EDGE ELEVATOR? Fast Harrier rolls are fun, but how about a Harrier SLOW roll that stays in the same spot? Tell your friends with their Edges or Caps to do THAT!
Gotta understand that it's not the plane that does the manuever, it's the pilot. The GP 330 can make you look good.
There are better 3D planes, but the only 3D manuevers that the GP330 doesn't like are parachutes and walls (wing always drops), and upright harriers and elevators. There is a lot of wing rocking when upright, and I've tried reflexing and drooping the elevators which did improve them somewhat. Roll inverted though, and it'll do inverted elevators and harriers as well as any plane with minimal wing rock. It does tight waterfalls, and will torque roll as well as the pilot can. Adding an inch along the trailing edge of the elevator will allow more pitch authority with minimal airflow, but to say that this change will improve 3D performance is stretching it.
The rudder does look very small compared to Caps, some other Extras and Edges, but the plane has a BUNCH more yaw authority than most. Remember, in knife edge, all the rudder does is provide angle of attack. The flying surface is what provides the lift, and the GP Extra's tall fuse provides a large "wing" to fly on in knife edge. This allows high alpha knife edge flight that just CRAWLS across the sky it's so slow. In a 10 mph headwind, how about a KNIFE EDGE HARRIER, or KNIFE EDGE ELEVATOR? Fast Harrier rolls are fun, but how about a Harrier SLOW roll that stays in the same spot? Tell your friends with their Edges or Caps to do THAT!
Gotta understand that it's not the plane that does the manuever, it's the pilot. The GP 330 can make you look good.
11-11-2003, 11:16 PM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
Eric, take a look at the CA 34% extra kit. Its only 200 bucks more, and was designed more with 3-d in mind. I watched Tim's Nephew fly the GP extra 2 weekends ago, and it does very nice "Imac" stuff. He was a very good pilot, and really made the plane shine! He even made me look bad with my edge! 
I know you, and I have looked that GP extra over pretty good, and have even given a lot of thought to the same thing you are asking about.
Take a look at the wing area, versus other planes the same size, such as you H9 extra. Also you will find the others are usually longer, and have more control surface area. The ailerons on the GP extra do not look like they belong on a 3-d plane. imo
Like Tim said, I have no doubt the Gp Extra is a great plane (no pun intended) but I don't think you will be happy with it for a 3-d plane.
Tim says it doesn't do walls, or harriers, or elevators very well. This is a basis to build upon for 3-d. Just about any plane will Torque roll, with enough power. I have even watched a slightly modified trainer TR! So this is a non issue.
I know you're saying to yourself, man that GP extra is only 300 bucks to my door. And yes it is a very good price, for a giant plane, but I think you need to keep looking for a serious 3-d plane.
Its just money!
I know you, and I have looked that GP extra over pretty good, and have even given a lot of thought to the same thing you are asking about. Take a look at the wing area, versus other planes the same size, such as you H9 extra. Also you will find the others are usually longer, and have more control surface area. The ailerons on the GP extra do not look like they belong on a 3-d plane. imo
Like Tim said, I have no doubt the Gp Extra is a great plane (no pun intended) but I don't think you will be happy with it for a 3-d plane.
Tim says it doesn't do walls, or harriers, or elevators very well. This is a basis to build upon for 3-d. Just about any plane will Torque roll, with enough power. I have even watched a slightly modified trainer TR! So this is a non issue.
I know you're saying to yourself, man that GP extra is only 300 bucks to my door. And yes it is a very good price, for a giant plane, but I think you need to keep looking for a serious 3-d plane.
Its just money!
11-12-2003, 12:09 AM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
chk out the modified version of the GP extra! absolute blast for 3D!
the fuselage was made longer by about 6-8" and control surfaces made larger..
http://www.uaerc.com/Salah.aspx
cheers,
mayur
the fuselage was made longer by about 6-8" and control surfaces made larger..
http://www.uaerc.com/Salah.aspx
cheers,
mayur
11-12-2003, 05:29 AM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
yes david...this is the GP extra...it does look different due to the mods...
btw, its does AWESOME walls!!! and no wing rock in harriers....
btw, its does AWESOME walls!!! and no wing rock in harriers....
11-12-2003, 04:48 PM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
Thanks to all for their advise and comments.
Bryan, For whatever reason I have never been a big fan of the CA Extras. Something about them just looks different. Everyone says they fly great and I hope yours is no exception. But, for $100 more than the CA I could have what I really want... the 35% Aerotech Edge. But, I have no funds for either. There is an add on here right now for a GP Extra kit for $250 shipped. Very tempting... I want to hold out a while and see if anyone else has modified one of these. I like the sound of the Extra that Mayur has shown us. I could handle modifying the tail, but I would not know where to start by making the plane longer.
In the end, I may just end up stripping my H9, checking it over real well for and stress and re-covering it. That would be the cheapest anyway!
Bryan, For whatever reason I have never been a big fan of the CA Extras. Something about them just looks different. Everyone says they fly great and I hope yours is no exception. But, for $100 more than the CA I could have what I really want... the 35% Aerotech Edge. But, I have no funds for either. There is an add on here right now for a GP Extra kit for $250 shipped. Very tempting... I want to hold out a while and see if anyone else has modified one of these. I like the sound of the Extra that Mayur has shown us. I could handle modifying the tail, but I would not know where to start by making the plane longer.
In the end, I may just end up stripping my H9, checking it over real well for and stress and re-covering it. That would be the cheapest anyway!
09-12-2004, 06:53 AM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
Hi
I'm considering the great planes giant extra 300 and saw your info on the mods to Salah's version. It looks fantastic and seems to do the book. A well balanced plane. Would you have or know where I could get detailed information on the mods?
I would be very greatfull if you could help me.
Cheers
Kevin
I'm considering the great planes giant extra 300 and saw your info on the mods to Salah's version. It looks fantastic and seems to do the book. A well balanced plane. Would you have or know where I could get detailed information on the mods?
I would be very greatfull if you could help me.
Cheers
Kevin
10-21-2004, 07:39 AM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
I just started on my building of the Extra. I plan to 3D with it along to IMAC. I hope my 3D modifications will not affect too much IMAC performance. I started on the stab and the mod is simple. I just cut the ribs one inch forward of the plan hinge line on a band saw. I built the stab first and the elevator second. On the stab, directly where the ribs are cut, I glued a lite ply spar with a triangle stock at each rib. I placed the balsa spars on the top of the lite ply. I also added a 3/8" balsa plate so I can bevel the stab also. The front end of the stab is stock.
Now for the elevators, I used the stock spar, which is now about halfway into the elevator. For the front (where there will be hinges) I simply used a big tri-stock to act as a front spar AND the bevels on the elevator. I also put more angle on the cutout for the rudder to be able to move.
The end result is a stab that has 1" less chord and an elevator that has roughly 2" more chord. In all, I get 1" more for the total stab and elevator chord but way more control authorithy.
The first photo shows the completed stab assembly hinged and ready for final sanding and finishing.
The second photo shows my workshop already crowded with tools and wood and boxes and... I hope I will get more disciplined when I build the fuselage...
Now for the elevators, I used the stock spar, which is now about halfway into the elevator. For the front (where there will be hinges) I simply used a big tri-stock to act as a front spar AND the bevels on the elevator. I also put more angle on the cutout for the rudder to be able to move.
The end result is a stab that has 1" less chord and an elevator that has roughly 2" more chord. In all, I get 1" more for the total stab and elevator chord but way more control authorithy.
The first photo shows the completed stab assembly hinged and ready for final sanding and finishing.
The second photo shows my workshop already crowded with tools and wood and boxes and... I hope I will get more disciplined when I build the fuselage...
07-11-2005, 07:33 PM
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RE: Can the GP 33% Extra 330 be modified for 3D?
I have now 19 flights on the plane.
Here are the specs.
ZDZ80RV on a JMB 80x300 canister with a Mejlik 26x10. Turns in the 6600 RPM range.
Single 149DP with twin 1950 4/5FAUP 6V batteries through MPI switches. Single 1950 4/5FAUP 4.8V battery for ignition with MPI switch.
Servos are Hitec 4X 5925s for ailerons, 2X 5945s for elevators, 1X 5955 for the rudder on pull-pull (plenty of torque for knife edge loops and high speed snaps) and 2x Futaba 9101 for throtle and choke, no kill switch. I put carbon tube, gear and tailgear. Overall weight is not official but I am pretty sure it is no more than 23 lbs, that is counting 1lb only for monokote (4 oz for one wing so 1/2 lb for wings and also 1/2 lb for the rest).
Power is very good but I am used to more (11 lbs YS 140 DZ powered plane on 30% nitro). It flies the advanced IMAC sequence very well but I do have to learn how to manage available energy, which is a thing I did NEVER had to do before. Snaps are perfect, positive and negative. Point rolls are easy and precise. The plane uses normal mixes for knife edge. I mean no more than 6-7%.
As for 3D, it is very good. Torque rolls are very easy, upright harriers are good with some controllable wing rock (these are the worst part of the 3D flight but still controllable). Inverted harriers are outstandingly EASY. They lock into place as good as any plane on the market, at least as good or better than anything I have seen, even the vids on the net!! Flat spins perfectly, blenders are good also. Waterfalls are outstanding, really. They are fast, tight and easy to control. Then what can you ask more?? Walls are very deep. The plane does not gain altitude and can even go past 90 degrees if the speed is a little too high while applying full elevator.
If I were to do it over again, I would put 5955s in elevators also, there is not blowback but it would make me feel better. I would also plan for a full tuned pipe inside the fuse, there should be some room for that. Again, that's just me as fellow fliers say that I have plenty of power, I just have to get used to that.
The kit is good and light. Everything is strong enough IMO but I added CF strips in the wings and put a longer wing tube (bought the 48" and cut it to 42" I think).
Don't be affraid of this plane, it lands as easy as a trainer when you know that scale aerobats can snap bad when you push the limit too much. My CG is in the middle of the recomended range (pretty conservative as all recommended CGs by Great Planes) so all can get better IMO at the expense of a more sudden stall, which is a good thing IMO, it makes for a crisper plane.
In all, I am really happy I did not spend MUCH more on "better" kits, this one is the one with the best looks, and about the only scale kit on the market (you can get a Composite ARF for about 4-5 times the price and they are scale also).
Just ask if you have some other questions.
Here are the specs.
ZDZ80RV on a JMB 80x300 canister with a Mejlik 26x10. Turns in the 6600 RPM range.
Single 149DP with twin 1950 4/5FAUP 6V batteries through MPI switches. Single 1950 4/5FAUP 4.8V battery for ignition with MPI switch.
Servos are Hitec 4X 5925s for ailerons, 2X 5945s for elevators, 1X 5955 for the rudder on pull-pull (plenty of torque for knife edge loops and high speed snaps) and 2x Futaba 9101 for throtle and choke, no kill switch. I put carbon tube, gear and tailgear. Overall weight is not official but I am pretty sure it is no more than 23 lbs, that is counting 1lb only for monokote (4 oz for one wing so 1/2 lb for wings and also 1/2 lb for the rest).
Power is very good but I am used to more (11 lbs YS 140 DZ powered plane on 30% nitro). It flies the advanced IMAC sequence very well but I do have to learn how to manage available energy, which is a thing I did NEVER had to do before. Snaps are perfect, positive and negative. Point rolls are easy and precise. The plane uses normal mixes for knife edge. I mean no more than 6-7%.
As for 3D, it is very good. Torque rolls are very easy, upright harriers are good with some controllable wing rock (these are the worst part of the 3D flight but still controllable). Inverted harriers are outstandingly EASY. They lock into place as good as any plane on the market, at least as good or better than anything I have seen, even the vids on the net!! Flat spins perfectly, blenders are good also. Waterfalls are outstanding, really. They are fast, tight and easy to control. Then what can you ask more?? Walls are very deep. The plane does not gain altitude and can even go past 90 degrees if the speed is a little too high while applying full elevator
.If I were to do it over again, I would put 5955s in elevators also, there is not blowback but it would make me feel better. I would also plan for a full tuned pipe inside the fuse, there should be some room for that. Again, that's just me as fellow fliers say that I have plenty of power, I just have to get used to that.
The kit is good and light. Everything is strong enough IMO but I added CF strips in the wings and put a longer wing tube (bought the 48" and cut it to 42" I think).
Don't be affraid of this plane, it lands as easy as a trainer when you know that scale aerobats can snap bad when you push the limit too much. My CG is in the middle of the recomended range (pretty conservative as all recommended CGs by Great Planes) so all can get better IMO at the expense of a more sudden stall, which is a good thing IMO, it makes for a crisper plane.
In all, I am really happy I did not spend MUCH more on "better" kits, this one is the one with the best looks, and about the only scale kit on the market (you can get a Composite ARF for about 4-5 times the price and they are scale also).
Just ask if you have some other questions.
