Carroll-RCU

My Feedback: (43)

I have purchased the 3W80CS for an Aeroworks 33% Edge 540T. I'm hearing that the new ZDZ 80 Super has a lot more power. Question, should I send the 3W back and go with the ZDZ?
Is the ZDZ that much better over the 3W?
Thanks,
Carroll

Flip and Fly

I think that is not true at all. My 3W 80xi makes more power than my old ZDZ 80 RV, runs better in the air, it has a very smooth midrange transition and pulls harder than the ZDZ 80 RV.

The new RVJ has been trumped up by some to be a big power house, I have heard others making claims that it is not much stronger than the the old 80 RV. So what gives

Anyway, I would take the 3W over the ZDZ because I like the setup better, 3 Bearings on the crank VS 2, 5mm prop bolts vs 4mm ( They don't strip the heads a easy) and the plug cap is a clip on system rather than a little allen screw to hold it all together. Its all niggly stuff, but it matters to me.

Sure the ZDZ is 1/2 pound lighter and you may need a extra mount plate for the 3w ( I did'nt ) but I can live with that. My ignition has been good too. Seems that they have the bugs worked out with that.

In my view I think they are about the same power wise,.........probably.

Let the power wars begin.

rmh

ZDZ claims 400-500 rpm more than earlier RV model - after my having done lots of comparisons on various props and muffler /pipes cans etc.. - yeh the ZDZ engineers evaluations are reasonably close to what I see. give or take 100+-on various exhaust setups. I understand that they used 26x10 Mejzlic as comparison load props as for the exhausts they use - I don't know for certain but I suspect they used JMB in fuselage muffer setups (excellent quiet setup) for their actual use data.-

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

Had the 3w 80cs and can, seen and flown the zdz super 80. The super 80 on pitts is a good bit better on power. I thought my 3w 80 was a tad bit better on power than my 3w 75. At our fly-in last weekend, a guy brought out his new AW 75cc Yak with a super 80/pitts combo. Another flyer there with a 3W 80cs saw the super 80 run out of the box and was more than impressed.

rmh

The latest 80ZDZJ I recieved - seems to be overall the best --by a very small margin
mostly because the carb is simply one which matches my engine - instant prime super low idle and perfect transition
Carbs are something that NONE of the model engine manufacturers can really do much about - - if they work within tolerances -that's it. they are all made by one of three outfits.
Most are pretty dang good
Some specific models are better than others but if wishes were fishes - each mfg would send out half a dozen with each engine -then the really picky bastriks -could select which one they preferred.
I don't care what brand engine you swear by - the same nuances show up across the board -and you really must adjust them to suit your own setups.

Flip and Fly

Well some of the other numbers that people have reported and that I am seeing don't indicate that the Super RVJ is that much better with in cowl pitts mufflers like, a good supersonic. Maybe some, then again if flyinrazrback saw that it was stronger, maybe.

The in cowl pitts mufflers are not always that restrictive either, I tried mine open stack, and muffler on, same readings. Same goes for the Bisson with the tips cut off. Not restrictive on the ZDZ 80 RV.

Maybe with a good tuned system the RVJ is better, can't say I never tried it.

Dick, you are a master at tweeking motors and I don't doubt that you can get more out of them, but the masses seem to find not a big spread in power between the two.

Any way here's pictures of my own design extra 260. Pictures taken in the spring still working on my paint job on the cowl!

35% 103 span, 1800 sq in. Flys great! Ok it came out at 25lbs, I was hoping for 23[&o]

Then again it looks scale, no flat sided fuses for me. And the 3W pulls it just fine.

rmh

no picture
my engines are bone stock - run in with 32-1 Mobil-from the first flip - I simply set high needle such that engine when started runs up close to full power --then goes to full power ONLY as it sets there and gets warm.
The props used are always the lightest loads which are practical
The plug in tach comfirms this .
later on I tweak low speed needle till idle and transition are best - that's it
no tricks at all .
The In cowl mufflers are much different -in what I have found -than what you note - Some samples I received really squashed the power -they were returned. the current Supersonic is really the best I have tried--- powerwise .
Listening for best setting is a learned thing - the new plug in tachs and the adjustable rear carb setups (while running ) really make all this much easier than some other arrangments.
I don't fidle with "break in oils or any ground running -other than initial sort out as described
Anybody can do the same and get intended results
BUT if you shove on a prop and say "ok give me X rpm "-- that approach just doesn't work - -some guys do try to do it that way tho and the result is an engine which if likely be overheated or scratched up badly .
worse-- if one assumes the "factory setting" is correct - the full power available with a well fitted engine -- may be compromised .
I setup my engines any brand and other peoples engines the same way
so far this method works well on all I have done.
edit - pretty 260- and I don't think I ever mentioned a power comparison of the 3W and the ZDZJ- simply because I never ran the 3W- -I really don't know how they stack up .

Flip and Fly

Its true you never made any power comparisons, but the poster did.

"I have purchased the 3W80CS for an Aeroworks 33% Edge 540T. I'm hearing that the new ZDZ 80 Super has a lot more power. Question, should I send the 3W back and go with the ZDZ?
Is the ZDZ that much better over the 3W?"

I would just keep the 3W

Also Dick I was not referring to basic tuning, (although some people have a hard time with that and we all start somewhere) but changing carbs, running tuned pipes and all the other tweaking ya do


I am running a supersonic on my 3W and it has held up well. My Bisson muffler fell apart after 200 or so flights. Ordered a supersonic for that.

I guess in my books, out of the box, both motors set up well, same props, same mufflers ya won't see such a big difference.

I could be wrong, but I would not run out and sell my new motor because someone some were said brand X was better.

rmh

I never figgered best performance was obtained from a popularity contest----------
"HEY DUDE __ __ all the way", never cut it with me.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

I am just basing this on my experience. I have run both engines myself, not word of mouth, on similar planes. The 3W was on my AM 33% Yak, the super 80 on an AW 75cc Yak. My friend bought my yak and he didnt like the 3w 80cs on can, so he yanked it out and put a super 80 on a pitts muffler in it, and was instantly satisfied. It doesnt take a genious to run 2 motors and figure out which one is stronger unless they are really close to each other. The zdz super 80 is just hands down the winner every way around, including weight. They did a great job on this motor. For me to say this is pretty stern as for the past 3 years I have been a die hard 3W guy. The difference in the zdz super 80 compared to my 3w 80 was the sole reason for me to buy a zdz super 160 to try over the 157 I had been running.

Flip and Fly

Oh no, not you. True you were a loyal 3W fan at one time however flyinrazrback I am disappointed, have you sold out to ZDZ too. []

Well you can say all that, could be true, but how do you explain the other people out there that just don't see these numbers. I don't get it.

Not to be a skeptic, but some people have reported numbers on the RVJ that are not any better than my 3WXI. Frankly I don't get it.

Anyway, glad you are happy with the RVJ.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

Do numbers on the ground tell you how strong a motor is? I have not sold out to anyone. No one gives me anything, and my free will I get to buy what ever I want to try. When it comes to an 80cc, I will take the zdz over the 3w. When it come to a 150-160, I would take either a 157 or the zdz super 160, flip a coin. Why dont you get a zdz super 80 and you can run it next to your 3w and see for yourself. I have seen them myself, head to head, most havent (my 3w 80 and friends super 80, and at our fly in another 3w 80cs and super 80). Everyone who has actually run (in person, not heard of on the net, or from a bud) a super 80, comment on what you think the power is compared to the old zdz 80 and the 3w 80 if you have seen them to compare it to.

Flip and Fly

I know you did not sell out, It was a joke. Have we lost our sense of humor[&:]

Coming from you and the fact that you did find the RVJ stronger gives me reason to think that it could be.

However I like my 3W 80, I can 3D my Extra, more power is always good, but I am happy with what I got.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

I hear you, I liked my 3w 80 as well, it just falls short to the zdz. Also there is no DA 75 to compare either of them to

rmh

Next up -- full tuned pipe in the EDGE---
This is only a test -
If it were an impending disaster
You would have been notified directly.

Flip and Fly

Thats all we need Dick, another disaster!


Just keep the wings on [X(]

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I've got 2 NIB 3W 80XI engines sitting here. No clue how they will run.

I'm thinking REAL HARD about buying a used ZDZ 80 (old style) that has about 1.5 gallons through it.

I'm about to find out just exactly how the 2 different engines compare in a side by side comparison.

I'm stepping up to strictly 30% and 35% size planes and I'm collecting engines and servos right now. Planes are easy to find and I'll want the newest version with all the updates when it finally comes time to buy. But, an engine can be purchased and kept on the shelf for 6 months or a year without any damage or loss of performance.

The 3W ignition does scare me. Haven't heard good reviews about them. Flip and Flops report of no problems with the 3W ignition so far is encourageing though.

We'll see.

Flip and Fly

The 3W is a fine motor, I like this motor the more I run it. The motor is put together well!

Runs great, easy to tune, no funny sounds, rattles, shakes, and a good ignition. They redesigned it and mine has been flawless. You can get the RPM reader for it too for extra cost but I did not bother. Just plug it in and it tells you what its turning on the ground and in the air.

All for 600$, what a deal

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

Most 3w ignition problems are operator error in mounting them causing them to get hot and burn up. If you mount it like the manual says, you will not have any problems.

Falcon XR

Hi Guys,

I've a question, is the 3W 80xi just a further development of the 3W 70i at all???? Reason I ask is I'm trying to ensure the engine dimensions are similar between them. I've looked up the info etc on the 3W web site however they list different dimensions taken at slightly different points. I'm a scale guy who can't bear to have exposed motor parts

But the sound of extra engine capacity for no weight penalty really sounds very interesting. Any help will be much appreciated.

Regards

Adrian

Flip and Fly

The 80xi is not the same motor as the 70i. Cases are not the same, carb mounts with the tuning needles in a different direction, back mounting dimensions not the same. Its all very close but not a drop in, one for the other.

rcand

I see a lot about comparing the zdz 80 super to other 80's particulary the 3w, but the new zdz 80 super is supposed to put out 9.5 hp, so maybe we need to compare the this 80 to other engines in the same HP class, which are typically 100/105 cc. how would the vibration, transition, weight and such compare to the zdz to a twin with over 9 hp?

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

If the 9.5 hp comes from the ThrustHp chart it's definitely wrong....

rmh

ZDZ noted the engine was 400-500 rpm more on typical props used -compared with the 80RV
I see this as being well in line with results of three of them I have setup --
Thrust HP charts are useful- as comparison information - but if you miss altitude density and don't use exact same prop as they use - it will not be useful info.
You are far better off, using a known prop (kept as referrence prop ) and comparing data and correcting for AD as necessary.
comparing unlike setups and unlike props is a waste of time. as for smoothnes - the engine 80J ZDZ on my new EDGE will run thru entire 900-7100 rpm power band -on the ground - with no visible buzz of any surfaces - It is not as smooth as my 160 but is smoother than any other large single I have run.

arobatx

Is there any truth to the suggested performance gains of the 3W80XICS as compared to the standard XI? I too am interested in both the ZDZ and the 3W and am picking up tidbits of what people have to say on here. I would assume we should be comparing the 3W80XI with the ZDZ 80RV, and the 3W80XICS to the ZDZ80RVJ Super correct? Since the latter pair is to be the better version of its earlier releases. I have to be honest here, I'm not as concerned with the 600 dollar pricetag vs. 675 and on up when they are not on sale....or that one is a bit lighter than the other. The prices are competitive enough that I will look at both, and the weights are close enough for the 33%ers that often need a little gear moved forward anyway to balance due to their lighter weights. What I want to know is this...are both engines well thought out, put together well, do they run within a reasonable range of the advertisements claims, and most importantly....I want to hear about customer service. These engines wouldn't both exist if they weren't decent competition for eachother, and in some applications, decent competition for the larger more expensive twins. They all have their place in our hobby. Things can go bad with anything we use, it happens. What I want to know, is who is going to treat ME the way I need to be treated after buying their 80cc flagship product, if and when something does go bad? I have stuck by manufacturers in other areas of this hobby based in great part on their customer service, even when their products aren't in the supposed limelight of what is considered top notch in certain circles of gossip. And don't get me wrong here....great customer service is only 'great' in my mind, if I don't have to keep revisiting it. I think you get my point. I wish someone would send someone like Dick Hanson or Ralph Cunningham a 3W80XICS to play with...cuz they would just spit out honest results. And I have the feeling that certain setups and applications would be ideal for it, just like the ZDZ. Until that happens, Let's hear it from people that have had either of these engines, and have had trouble, and see how that experience has been with the manufacturer. Anyone else on this page with me?

I'm going to go ahead and get a plug in for Ralph here.... if one of these companies would treat me like RCIGN, I'll order it today! (enough said)