Supreme Reign

Anyone who's owned r/c's knows that a DMD shoould not cost $220 or $250. I opened my 2 CH DMD. I saw nothing special that cannot be done for cheap. A Super Duty can handle far more power and doesn't go anywhere near that. $200 for the MF units? C'mon. I love Tamiya tanks, but the prices are insane. Dn't hold your breath people. Tamiya's trucks are ridiculously priced. How could you expect anything less with detailed tank kits. Hell, the static tank kits are half the price of the r/c kits. You think that's not crazy?

HL tanks aren't just for the poor. Some people spend their big bucks on other hobbies and interests. That doesn't leave much money for other r/c's. I've got a ton of r/c trucks. I've got semis. I'd rather drop $600-$800 on a truck I can thrash around than a kit I can't justify. No bearings. No glue. I've gotta save for that PS3. I've gotta get home theater gear. My real truck needs brake work. I need an HDTV.

It's easy to find people selling Tamiya tanks cheap. I won't be hurt if Tamiya discontinues another tank. Someone is always selling. The real loss comes in that you don't get to build the kit. I can live with that as I love to modify. It's absolutey ridiculous to believe a company as big as Tamiy that makes models cannot scale up one of their huge collection of 1:35 tanks and spit them out in 1:16. One a year? When did Tamiya put out its last tank? Appalling. Tamiya makes great stuff, but theiy are out of touch with customers. The mere fact that no Abrams exists explains that.

I admire what HL is doing. We have more tanks thanks to them. CJ Mahoney's post shows Big T could care less. H is selling far more tanks than Big T.

tomzag

My Feedback: (-1)

hotjava

Hello,

People pay a premium for brand and Tamiya has a very strong brand. People also pay more for accuracy and quality. However, I do not think Tamiya really cares about the 1/16 market. I have heard that the margins there are thin to none.

It is more profitable to concentrate on the plastic scale models and R/C cars.

Oliver

Shagnifico

One thing I've noticed about rc tanks from japanese companies is that they're all over priced. Vstank is better than tokyo marui, it's even made in the same factory, yet a tokyo marui tank cost twice as much. Kyosho is probably the most ridiculously overpriced tanks. 1/55 scale, one speed for each track and no turret control $60.

Amuro

Are the electronics that Tamiya uses custom made by Futaba? If so, that might at least to some degree justify the cost of the electronics. Any thoughts?

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Amuro:

Good point. Odds are someone is making these electronics for Tamiya, just as someone was making the metal castings for their older RC kits. Thats why we have not seen the metal gearboxes from the Hi-Lux & Blazing Blazer again, along with those from the Sand Scorcher and Rough Rider. The tale is that the molds ( and the rights) were lost when the contracted company went bust.

Now it ~is~ a fact that Tamiya and Futaba did a deal before: Tamiya made the TamTech Rx/ESC units for Tamiya, and for that Futaba was given the FX-10 kit ( http://www.futaba-rc.com/manuals/fx10-manual.pdf )

Yes, I suspect the tank and semi-truck electronic modules are all made by Futaba... and the semi-truck ones are horrendously priced too. What can we do about it? Wait for private sellers like Hi-IQ and RobotMarketplace to sell DMD-like units, and then MF and battle units, and vote with our dollars.

With any luck, Tamiya will see which way the wind is blowing, and go with it instead of dropping the tank lineup as it did back in the 80's.

schutzstaffel

the scariest thing in all that tam,
is that the price went up , with a plastic lower hull and nylon gears.

if that loea6 hull resist , the metallic hull could be a thing of the past [sm=sleeping.gif] or the price will raise.
hoping that i`m wrong.

Templars83

That's Mr. HL Templars - anyway...let me give some basic pricing strategy mistakes I feel Tamiya makes when ....wait....I already did a thesis on this in a previous post. Sorry. I think I will go feed my brain and read some books.

astroboycp

hey templar, your point is totally valid. tamiya really need to reduce the pricing of their tanks. by reducing and providing a better detail tank, they will get more sales as compared to now. i am waiting for hl to catch up to them and oooo i will buy hl too. right now whats deterring me is its quality and it being unable to do battle with tamiya tanks unless of course you buy the $$$$$ dmd etc. and mod it into the hl tank.

Amuro

I would jump on the HL bandwagon so fast if only they offered realistic sound. I don't know about you, but for me driving a R/C tank without sound is not like driving my other R/C vehicles. I need the sound or else it sounds too much like a toy! Thats just me. Tamiya is clearly gotten to fat. Maybe HL will spark a healthy dose of competition. Not including a full bearing set and detailed gun barrel is not excusable. Even the Gun stabilizer should have been included for the $900 U.S. dollar price tag. What modern MBT does not have a gun stabilizer?? Not including one is like driving a Tiger 1. I might as well buy that.

kenneth74

Dear all RC tanks lovers,

there's a lot of overheads cost that goes into the designing of a good RC tank, injection molding, research, test-fitting, alterations, packaging, advertising, etc
and the fact that RC tank itself is a very niche market puts the analogy of intelvsAMD a bad one, they sell by millions of units. Tamiya is slowing down or possibly cutting this line, as someone has mentioned, making little or no profit; they absorbed the cost, but not making the sales, coz somebody just took the design and copied badly (cheaper suspension, out of shape turret; of coz they will claimed their design is different becoz its not copied, so convenient)

Tamiya RC tank is not ridiculously priced; one trip to Tokyo, you know that it is about $USD400 for the Tiger 1(full option includes controller), and about USD$650 for the Leopard 2A6(full option with controller); is that grossly expensive? even cheaper for the KT and Sherman. There are alot of profit making in the process when these tanks are shipped overseas. So its not Big T's pricing policy but the middle man...(hint, distributors gets at least 40% off the list price).

Regarding the DMD electronics, it is the original design/idea that cost money, individual components of it are cheap. In that case, Intel/AMD and all IC makers are daylight robbers; cost of making a CPU (logic class) chip is less than $USD20, how much are they selling us?

Also, there's no point going after these pple coz you will make no headway, they just close shop and pop up almost instantly with another name. Same problem with BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota are facing, blatant plagiarism. They are very very much more influential than puny big T and yet they can't do anything.

i do agree that price is the motivation factor, but more often than not, i will chose to pay more to get a quality product...if it still exist...

Problem;niche market, Big T will stop making them if that's what the consumers choose....

Amuro

True, the middleman may be the problem. Is there a solution? But, Tamiya IS synonymous with quality and may have the best opportunity to create and grow this niche market. I was shocked to see that TowerHobbies was selling the kit at a high price. I expected them to have more reasonable prices here in the States.

EugeniRUS

I also choose quality. What I like about Tamiya is that they produce very high quality products. I like the sounds, I like to assemble them, I love the looks of them.
What I do not like is the price. It could be 1/4-1/3 lower. Also, I would like them to have all metall gears. Why some of them are made of plastic and some of metall? The gear ratio could also be scale right from the very beginning. If T is so concerned about the things being correct, why not make scale speed?
I do not mind HL. They are making progress. I will buy one of them in 1/16 if it is one of my favorite tanks and not produced by Tamiya.

13BT

Does HL make anything other than tanks? Even if they did, i bet they dont have anywhere near the range of products that Tamiya have. Tamiya stuff is good quality and it shows but I really believe the model tank market is very small compared to RC cars, planes, and even boats, not even considering plastic kits yet. And this is where Tamiya makes most of its money from.

I really dont think a hobby company as big as Tamiya will really be too bothered if it lost the model tank market to HL. Maybe thats why new releases in the tank dept have been so slow.
When I visit my hobby shop, I could count the number of tanks on the showroom floor on one hand. Cars, planes, boats, and related spare parts and upgrades? Its no comparison.

I wish I could afford Tamiya tanks too, but Tamiya has a greater stake in areas other than tanks.

swathdiver

Economics 101 fellas: Companies charge what the market will bear for their products. After 25 years of producing and selling these tanks, Tamiya has probably figured out that even if they lowered the price of the tanks, the demand for them wouldn't change.

outcastrc

But thats the crux of it. You don't see tanks (or T rigs) sitting in hobby shops because its too much money for the lhs to have sitting on the shelf that may or may not sell. So its a special order item. And most people don't order they impulse buy. So its a major catch 22.

I showed the HL tanks to 2 of my lhs's and they were floored that you got so much for so little. And would have been willing to carry them except that I warned them about their failure rates. So they are routing anyone that asks to Mato. Once they get the quality up to par (this was all before the Walker) then they would consider carrying them.

icecreamslick

My Feedback: (9)

Here is a solution that would suit me:

One of you guys get yourself a distributor license, buy directly from Tamiya for 40% off of the list price and then sell the tanks to me (ok, us) for only a marginal profit.

Amuro

I disagree, This forum proves that there is a demand and HL users disappointment supports that even more. If the price was lower I would have eventually consider buying two of the same kit.

swathdiver

I'm referring to Tamiya's tanks not HLs. One is marketed as a toy, the other a high tech model kit.

Amuro

I was not clear, what I am saying is that from what I read a majority of people who purchase HL's are people who probably would have made the investment in a Tamiya instead. If they where more attainable price wise. Instead, they have had to settle for an inferior product. The claim that there is little demand seems to contradict the primary focus of this forum where Tamiya tanks are bought, dreamed over and sought after. Granted this is a R/C tank forum about all tanks and companies but Tamiya seems to be the most sought after. The interest and demand is here.

Regardless we probably will never see a price drop so this discussion for me is purely for curiosity and entertainment and constructive criticism. Anybody who wants a Tamiya should, like me, just accept the reality and save up for one. That's what I'm doing. Anyway, discussions like this are actually beneficial too. besides, These Kits are an investment in the long run. If I ever get tired of it in the distant future I can probably sell it an get back most if not all of my investment money. Especially, when they are discontinued. Any guesses on when that will be?

tomzag

My Feedback: (-1)

kenneth74
right on green!

secretsg

Except there isn't a big enough market for even the private sellers to start selling stuff like this due to warranty and other costs. Frankly even the
home robotics market is a lot bigger than tanks. Unless the market changes I can't see an abandunce of battle emulation systems like Tamiya's
for reasonable prices soon.

tesujin

well the reason this forum is more focused on tamiya tanks is solely because hl have not catch up yet. and the fact that when hl tanks are mentioned, there are some elitist who immediately jumped on them. i think i saw some thread happening recently and it nearly lost a member.

tesujin

swathdiver

I disagree. The majority of the people who visit these forums have probably dreamt of a Tamiya and may have settled for a HL. There are tens of thousands who bought them as toys, when they break will throw them away and never thought twice about the forums or figuring out how to fix them.

I wonder, how many Tamiya tanks are sold in a year compared to Tamiya 4x4 rc cars? I bet it's less then 1%, tenths of a percent, maybe even hundredths compared to the whole rc 4x4 market.