patriktegelberg

OK then, no cooling and engine seizure [:-] I give in, I really havent the faintest clue.

glennb2006

Hi Paul,

were those tests with the Y lead fitted and the fail safe disconnected?

Glenn

Paul M

The venom failsafe was out of the boat. I didn't hook up the Y harness. I think my request for clarification on exactly how the leads go got lost in the post. I think I know but wasn't sure so didn't try it. In all honesty I was so sure it was the Venom or the position of the IV bag, I didn't sweat it. Also trying to try all options that don't involve more $ first as well.

I had the Fasst failsafe set up though. Please clarify on the y-harness so I can try it next weekend.

Why would this condition occur on right turns only? Is there more battery drain on a right vs a left turn?

yeeharacing

Paul,
I would replace all your fuel line in the boat. I had a similar problem with my nitro truck it turned out there was a pin hole in the line and it would suck air when the line flexed in a turn.

Rick

TIA

Paul you could have an air leak in the fuel delivery nozzle or a bad diaphragm (which I think it is becuase it happened to me)

Change the carbie & see if it make a difference.

Paul M

Thanks Guys. I'm adding these to the list. So far this is what I have left to try:

1) Change carb (which I don't have yet)
2) Change fuel line
3) add Y harness (which I don't have yet)
4) Change to a 2 blade prop
5) Change from camper fuel to gas
6) Add notches in lip of hull to allow water to drain before entering carb
7) Close vents in immediate area of carb
8) Eliminate fail safe (I already have removed venom) but I plan to run once with FASST FS turned off just to remove it as a possibility.

The thing about the carb and lines is it doesn't make sense how these could be issues with the problem being a turn in only one direction and the shut off is so sudden. There's no hesitation it just quits. This is what is making me lean toward water in carb.

Thanks for your patience. I not only want to fix this, I want to know what the cause is as well. So I have to try one or two remedies at a time

glennb2006

Hi Paul,

as you have and are removing the failsafes, I would advise that you drop the adding a Y harness to the bottom of the list, it will not make a difference to the problem if the failsafe is out of the boat. The theory behind the Y harness is to ensure full power gets to the servos, and mimimise voltage drop to the radio, so the failsafe does not cut in.
It is possible for a servo to draw more one way than the other if, for example, the linkage is binding, or if there is uneven geometry in the set up, more torque may be required one way than the other.

If there is nothing mechanical that is obvious, ie binding drive or similar, then it would appear more to be electrical, although as Patrik has hinted at, this is purely speculation as without the boat in front of you it is not possible to know.

Check everything, then check it again.

Might be prudent to alter the list so the cheaper things are at the top, fuel line etc. A work order list keeps you focussed though, good idea, stick with it, eventually you will find it and understand the problem.

One more for the list - the throttle linkage, it is not possible that somehow it being moved in hard right turns and closing the throttle is it?

Please update when you find the fault, it may help someone else too.

Best of luck.

Glenn

patriktegelberg

The problem is asymmetric, happens only on hard rights so solution is not found in a symmetric cause. Only few thing on the list is asymmetric. Do not dremmel until you are sure, find other ways to test that theory. Flotation blocking carb is a good thing to look for, it matches the dies suddenly but does not match the hard to start clue neither does any failsafe issues. Does it die every time on hard right and after the same time in the same manner and above the same "hardness". Those are clues to be used. Good that you have described other clues like the hard to start thing and dies without hesitation. Post a video of it dying (several times) and you starting it when it has died.

Whenever one of my boats behave oddly I check the fuel supply (tank-clunk-bag) It is the problem in 90%. 9% of the problems is water in the boat and carb. I had trouble with my bag even if there was no air in it, never solved that problem fully but went back to hard tanks. maybe I will try bags again later. If, as in my case, the bag is long (or wide) and the intake is at the wrong position it can be cut off from the fuel at low gas, high g situations. But does that match hard to start, probably not.

Hard to start could be water. Have you run in without the cowl, if not try and se if different. Run it without the velocitystack, make sure to add washers to replace the thickness lost or screws will bottom out. Run it without flotation in carb area. And absolutely borrow and try other tanks. Try lots of cheap things and gather clues.

patriktegelberg

Be sure that water is not entering the carb. Fix trix try to be positive there is not water. At hard right does water start spaying up on deck from the front right sponson?

Paul M

Patrick/Glenn,

Have tried with and without cowl and same result. Have not removed the velocity stack yet but definitely planned on it. The list is not necessarily the order I will try. The cheap and easy things will be done first.

The video is a great idea.

I think it will be either water in carb or an electric issue although I am leaning toward water as it is the only thing I can see making the engine difficult to start after it starts. Also right turns would give the best opportunity for water to enter the carb as far as spray off the sponson.

I also plan to remove the throttle cable and go with a rod and bell crank set up just because if nothing else i don't like the cable set up.

I have always run IV bags and have never had a problem before so I tend to lean away from that.

The engine is very close to the floor of the hull (=/- 1/8 ") is there any thing on the lower end of the engine that by touching or pressing the bottom of the hull would cause sudden stalls?

Thanks again for all your help and interest

glennb2006

Hi Paul,

the only thing I can think of that is low mounted is the ignition coil, unles you have relocated it. If it were loose then maybe as the boat and motor move through the turn it could be looseing the ground connection. Easy to prove, start the motor and try to move it left and right and see if it cuts out. I think this is unlikely.

The hard to start after the cut out is somewhat puzzling.

If it were a fuel problem then maybe this would be why it was hard to restart.

Is there no one else where you run who can lend you a carb for half an hour to prove (or disprove) the carb fault train of thought? Although why only on right turns I don't know. As you can probably tell, I am thinking and typing at the same time. Sorry for the rambling on.

It's a tricky one.

Glenn

Tell 1uk

HI Paul you do seem to have a tricky one here,going back to my own experiences I still think the probs come from a inablity to turn right if it was pure engine probs I would have thought this would occur on other occasions other than a right turn.I doubt this is a water in the engine prob(unless its through the exhust in some way ie as you pick up the boat out of the water and water runs back into the engine) riggers monos and cats will run happily without lids and turn right without probs what is so different about your boat setup that causes it to take on water through the carb? from what I can see nothing! Mod engines such as we run like to rev I still think you need to adjust the back end prop strut etc,to achieve your right turn and not to overload the engine.From my own experience if you go back to my other post your engine starting probs could occur from this prob.Best of luck I look forward to the next installment.

Paul M

Don't have any one around who can lend me a carb so I'll probably send the engine back to Toxic to be checked before I buy a carb to see. I really don't think it's the engine because of the limited set of circumstances that causes the cut out to occur.

One thing I have done is I started the engine and turned and shook the boat around in my hands to see if I could make it cut off and it did not so I am leaning away from fuel delivery at this time. But this was not done with water hooked to pick ups it was just prior to throwing the boat in the water.

It's a good idea to move the engine while it is running to see if the coil is being grounded out in some way.

Tell, it's odd you should mention water running into the engine from the exhaust side. I was just thinking of it this morning. I noticed that I was getting good flow through the engine on Sunday but the water outlet from the exhaust was not shooting any water meaning the water is coming out the pipe instead which I have seen it do before. Didn't think much of it becasue the engine has cut out in the right turn before when I know I could see water coming out both outlets (exhaust and engine). Could it be water is pooling in the tuned pipe and then running back into the engine during the right turn? or would exhaust and heat prevent that?

I am going to set the boat up on the garden hose this weekend and test this out. Keep you posted. Thanks, guys for hanging with me. Maybe I can return the favor some day. Hopefully I won't have to

martno1fan

Paul it sounds like youve found your problem id say if your not getting water running through the outlets its going into the pipe and then into the engine when you turn right as this will raise your exhaust and slosh water back down and into the motor through the exhaust port.check your o rings are seated properly and that they arent leaking this can be checked by blowing through the inlet on the manifold for the header.or as you say rig it to a hose, i get a container filled with water and drill holes in the lid and stick some hose into the lid and run them to the motor and the manifold to do bench tests just hang the container upside down(like an IV bag) and let the water run its better than a garden hose as the pressure is just right.im confident this is your problem or i hope it is as i know it can get frustrating when you cant find the problem

Tell 1uk

Hi Paul I think as Mart said you could be getting to the heart of the prob,water in the pipe wuold be blown out when the engine revs but water will remain in the pipe under certain conditions then as the engine dies in the turn rolls back into the engine causing your engine restart probs, so do you have a good seal on the exhust cooling?or does the water flow into the pipe after or during your turn or after you stop?I would check your seals(o rings etc) run water through to prove a leak or not , then you can answer part 2 go for a smaller prop and see if you can turn right at good speed this will give you a answer to the right turn prob and the other water intake probs as well, at least its another possablity looked at!

Paul M

I think the seals on the pipe are ok. I cut my header almost too short so if the pipe slides a smidge backward the header is out of the O-ring enough to allow water to enter the pipe. I need to re seat the pipe in the transom so this can't happen. The length is ok otherwise as it definitely comes on pipe without any problem. It was just over 40 mph at 1/2 throttle last weekend.

I hope you guys are right. Thanks for chiming in, Mart. We'll find out this weekend. I'll keep you posted

martno1fan

do you have a bracket to hold the pipe from moving? if not id make one or you can use wire tied round your pipe and tied off so it cant slide back.i looped some over my silencer on my hanson pipe to stop it sliding back.its just seated in a hole in the transom with some exhaust silicone round the pipe that fits snug into a hole in the transom.the wire also acts as a safety thing to stop me loosing my silencer as ive heard of a few falling off .hope you sort the problem mate good luck.

glennb2006

Mart,

you can get a device that clamps onto the header and a piece of material goes from the clamp ring to the water nipple on the expansion chamber to stop the pipe sliding around.

Try BH Hanson or maybe Bonzi, I've seen one somewhere.

Glenn

Paul M

Hey guys,

Did a driveway test tonight. Picked the boat up over my head and while screaming obcenities, I threw it.... no not really. Just kidding.

But did hook the boat up to the hose and started it. Started right up no problem. Stopped the engine several times by putting my finger over the carb and again it started right up. I think this rules out the noodles covering the carb as being a problem??

I picked the boat up and turned it every which way but loose including upside down. Made sure water was coming from the pipe not the outlet to try and duplicate that condition of water running from the pipe into the engine. I could not make the engine cut out.

Not satisfied, I began to toss water at the velocity stack to simulate spray getting into the carb. I know, nuts but I want to figure this out. I was very liberal with the water and again no cut out.

The only thing I didn't duplicate was that the engine was not under load so I guess it doesn't mean a whole lot.

One added bit of info. I have never run the boat without a fail safe. I had removed the venom but set up the fasst. Interestingly enough, tonight the throttle servo would not operate until after I turned the failsafe off. And then the servos moved very sluggishly.

I am buying a new battery. This one is new but after this I don't trust it. Please give me your recommendations. Even with a new battery I think I will try running without any failsafe function just to rule out. I trust the fasst and if I am losing control it cant be for very long. it will be the only way to rule it out.

Think I'm going to spring for a new header later. First I will try to get it to set deeper in the pipe. I can't have the water running into the pipe.

dicko

how old is the battery? if it's brand new & hasn't been cycled a few times it may not be performing to its maximum. i cycle all my battery packs a few times before i run them in my models to make sure they take and discharge a full charge. if the batteries are brand new & you were running 2 failsafes, this may be your problem. one way to test is to plug both failsafes back in & turn your radio on & work both throttle & stearing servo as fast as you can to full throw in both directions. get someone to hold the rudder to put a bit of resistance on it & see if it draws enough out of the battery to make the failsafe kick in.

as mentioned before, I'd also recomend replacing all your fuel line. That's one of the first things I'd do, a small pin hole crack can cause the problems you are seeing.

good luck & let us know what the problem is when you find it.

Paul M

Will do on the fuel line. I am suspicious of the batteries now as given how much the boat was run Sunday after a full charge there's no way the servos should be this sluggish.

dicko

have you tried to cycle them (discharge & charge a few times)?

TIA

How does your plug look?

jorgeirn

paul where you bought the special screws for your radio box???? thanks

Paul M

No, I haven't cycled them. I've never had this kind of problem before though. Also I usually buy a more expensive battery pack than this though. The pack came a s a package deal with the boat

The plug is white on one side and dark on the other but I'm running camp fuel so plug color as I understand is a little bit difficult to call. My carb setting is 1 3/4 H and 1 3/8 L The engine acts and sounds a little rich at this setting.

I got my screws from Raj at XXX Boat works but you can get them at Home Depot or Lowes in the specialty fastner drawers. I saw some just like them last weekend. They are really nice. Sooo much better than fooling with tape but I don't think the box is as water proof as the ones I have done that seal with tape but certainly looks nicer. If I take a dunk bad enough to get water in the box, I'm going to the house any way to dry everything out